Shannon Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Sure, but this shouldn't be the case in the first place, It's poor design to momentarily invert a control scheme. It's also an incomplete prototype... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yes indeed, people must remember this before making critic of it too harshly, this was never finished and not meant to see the light of day, its only by kindness that we the public see this lovely game in its current form. Yes there are issues but its unfinished and if the source comes out there;'s a fair chance these issues may be cured. Be kind folks... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) So tonight was my most epic Warrior level battle yet!! The starbases were mostly clustered to the left side of the Galactic map and the battle went well. Lost one starbase, was able to save two others. The last one was never touched by the Zylons and they got nowhere near Earth. Took out the Zylon planets, mopped up, and waited for my commission ready to rise above Warrior class 2. And then I got .... PILOT class 2. (video attached) Wow. But I'm steadily getting better at this. And in the picture the 30 year old rubber footings always blacken my hands during each gaming session. 20151218_193325.mp4 Edited December 19, 2015 by doctorclu 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Why don't you get a real keyboard for your 800? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 I got three 800's that work currently. 1) Stock in the box. I basically leave that one alone. 2) 800 with a few modifications. 3) Incogneto 800. What you see there is the Incogneto 800 which I built from spare parts to test installing the Incogneto. Didn't have any spare (complete) 800 keyboards, so I hacked a 400 keyboard which I have quite a few. The Incogneto 800 worked well as a game machine. You only need keyboard commands every once in a while so the 400 keyboard is fine. The #2 800 stayed the same with no Incogneto in the end. Incogneto doesn't do serial (and BBSing) gracefully without overheating for some reason, so I left that 800 the way it was. Cycling back to Star Raiders, I started off playing SR with a Atari 400 and the membrane keyboard, so it is almost like old times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Doc, please explain about this "overheating" thing. I want to know every detail about this because i plan on running a BBS with my Incognito 800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mo Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) It's also an incomplete prototype... Which I've acknowledged multiple times. Funnily enough, I just got to play an arcade standup Atari Star Wars arcade game a couple of hours ago (it's in the lobby of my local cinema due to The Force Awakens) and I paid a lot of attention to the reticle behavior there for obvious reasons. And, to answer an earlier question, yes, the original SR had the Manual Target Selector feature. Edited December 19, 2015 by Big_Mo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Huh, became a Star Commander Class 1 without ever using that. Kyle22 I'll PM you on the Incogneto and serial overheating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 A video I made for AJW to explain briefly what the Incogneto modification does for the Atari 800. (and yes I use a Atari 400 keyboard on my parts Atari 800) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) Just managed to knock out most of a Commander mission. Not really that much different from the Warrior mission. Four Zylon planets, and you get about four to five starbases. Did the self destruct which appeared to take out the enemies in front of me. It's possible that it takes them out but more than likely you will still get the rank of "Fledging". Which seems to be the new "Garbage Scow Captain". But several observations: TRACKING COMPUTER 1) Even when the tracking computer is destroyed it keeps working. HITTING OBJECTS 2) The planetary fly overs are not so bad. Aim short of the target and let the target move into your shots. And here is a BIG BIG one... HITTING TARGETS NOT DIRECTLY 3) Most targets, space ships or bases on a planet, are always firing something at you. This mean that a direct in center crosshairs attack does not work. Most of the time you will hit their fire, and the more you fire, the more they will fire. Ultimately THEY get a shot through. a) Try hitting them while they are on the left or right side of the screen. At least this way their fire is not directly between you and them. b) If you are flying directly at a base on a planet, switch on tracking computer. The base will show up again behind you. Aim for the horizon and let the base fly into your fire. This is really the best way to get the bases that are directly in front of you. c) The only hit I noticed that firing directly ahead seems to work in space is when you are just arriving in a sector. Sometimes if you can line them up on the computer crosshairs on the lower right and then fire you can kill one or two when you first enter the sector. 1. As the combat goes on this seems to work with new arrivals too. It is like you are catching them off guard. 2. If you don't kill the new arrival quick, they go into that "cat on cocaine" pattern and are difficult to kill at that point. SURROUND SITUATION 4) A surround situation seems to happen when there are 10 ships involved. I noticed this once when a starbase had two of the lightning bolt looking symbols. Basically it seems the ">" (or one that that sorta looks like that) is generally 3 ships. "N" is 5, and "0" is generally about 7. Still trying to confirm that. Anyway, the "N" shaped ones generally have 5, there were two near a starbase, and the surround situation started. I'm still trying to figure out if you need to kill all the original ships involved in the surround, or if you get under 10 ships the station is safe. a) I did notice that when I completely saved the starbase from all involved, that later the Sub-Space Radio notified me when the same stabase was surrounded again later. This tells me that once all are killed, the surround situation resets. (The starbase did not seem any weaker from the previous surround). HYPERSPACE 5) You will notice that you often are fighting to move way one minute, and the next minute you are being pulled that direction. I believe various gravitational forces are at play while in Hyperspace. Just a theory, but black holes would tug you, and POSSIBLY planets if you are flying near their area. BLACK HOLES 6) First off they make a great 3D display from the Galactic Map. And when you hyperspace directly to them you die on arrival. a) If you are tugged by Black Holes while in Hyperspace, there is the chance that while jumping to another sector PAST the Black Hole you could get a good enough tug from the Black Hole. If that causes you be pulled out into the sector of the Black Hole, your ship would be instantly destroyed at that point. PLANETARY NAMES 7) Has anyone else gotten a good chuckle out of the star system names? For example, "Woola" was one star system name, and that the faithful dog like creature in the John Carter of Mars series. DAMAGE CONTROL So there is mention that damage control will repair damaged items. Apparently destroyed items can only be repaired at a Starbase? a) Is there any control I wonder to direct what is fixed first? b) Can destroyed items be fixed? ENERGY 9) Sadly there seems to be no way to gain energy except at Starbases. (If you do find another way please let me know) a) Warping to a star does not seem to be an option, but then that was a Last Starfighter thing anyway. SHIP TYPES 10) For some reason it seems the hit register is towards the top of the ships. a) "H" Fighters or "Tie fighters". Finally hit me, Tie, as in bow tie fighters. Makes no sense in a galaxy far far away where they don't wear bow ties. I generally rejoice when I see these. They CAN be a pain, but more often than not you can take these out like a popcorn. Side panels seem to protect them. These generally are taken out by a direct straight on shot. b) "#" Fighters or "(Cylon) Raiders. They don't look like Raiders, but they act like Raiders, and they are sneaky like Raiders. Generally line these up, shoot just ahead of them and a little high and they are taken out almost as quickly as the "tie" fighters. Tracking computer seems to have some fun tracking these. c) "A" Fighters or "Base Stars". If we were to turn this one on it's side.... ... we almost get the base star. At any rate, this seems to be a bomber class that can take multiple hits. If you shoot these directly on, much like the planetary bases, they will continue to fire and block your shots. Some of the best and most efficient kills I seemed to score on these were when they were off to the left or right. In that situation their shots could not block my shots and I got more shots through. Aiming towards the top of the ship seemed to help watching the Youtube video. d) if any ship is taking too long, you could try jumping to another sector and coming back. I have yet to confirm if this game remembers the exact ship type that you leave behind. One theory we could play with is, if you encounter an "A Fighter"/bomber/base star you could jump out, and come back later and have to fight a H or Tie Fighter later. And some of the best chances to kill are when you first reach the sector anyway. Jump in, score some kills, jump out and eventually come back. Those are my observations. I would love any corrections or other observations since I am just trying to understand this game for better play. Edited December 19, 2015 by doctorclu 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mo Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 The targeting definitely needs work. The ranking system feels weird, too. I blew myself up at the start of a Commander Mission and got Fledgling Class whatnot. I did the same after destroying over 100 ships and got basically the same rank. Maybe any self destruct makes you a fledgling? The galactic chart is, as the interview indicates, obviously unfinished. I got a message that a system was under attack, but it wasn't obvious which one that was. Also, Earth got blown up while I was engaging one of only two small 5 ship groups nearby it, and after it happened, there were no enemy ships nearly. Did they ram into the sun and blow it up or something? Also, I plotted a hyperspace course directly over a black hole to arrive just on the other side of it, and it affected by steering or exit position not one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 We can print that out in a strategy book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 We can print that out in a strategy book Thanks. Mostly conjecture so far, but we'll narrow this down. The targeting definitely needs work. Yep. But if it never gets an improvement, it is workable. The ranking system feels weird, too. I blew myself up at the start of a Commander Mission and got Fledgling Class whatnot. I did the same after destroying over 100 ships and got basically the same rank. Maybe any self destruct makes you a fledgling? I think Fledgling is what you get for blowing yourself up. Sucks. I would see blowing myself up to save the Earth and taking out a sector of seven others a great final score. Oh well. The galactic chart is, as the interview indicates, obviously unfinished. I got a message that a system was under attack, but it wasn't obvious which one that was. Also, Earth got blown up while I was engaging one of only two small 5 ship groups nearby it, and after it happened, there were no enemy ships nearly. Did they ram into the sun and blow it up or something? That is what I took from it. The remaining forces ram the sun or blow themselves up and blow up the whole sector. I mean when we take on Zylon planets there is a still a planetary system left when we are done. The Zylons blow up a whole star system. Jerks. And it seems a Surround situation, which is just like the System attack, you have to destroy all ships involved to cease the invasion. As we learned with the Starbases if the code is written the same way, if you destroy all ships, and then a new group arrives later, that will be a seperate system invasion event. Also, I plotted a hyperspace course directly over a black hole to arrive just on the other side of it, and it affected by steering or exit position not one bit. Really? Ok, then black holes are a one good looking and worthless McGuffin in the game. Thing to remember: Don't warp to black holes. And apparently if you have one directly in your path no foul. Wild. There was this Star Trek game on the 8-bits by Scott Adams adventures called Star Trek 3.5. Loved that game. It was a basic game so I would modify the energy from the usual 3000 to like 3,000,000 and just waste Klingons with one shot. They had sectors with Pulsars in them which remind me of the same effect of the Black Holes in Star Raiders 2. Not really a contributor to the game, but if you mistakenly warped into that sector you were instantly pulverized. Naturally I had mega shields going on with all the extra energy I hacked in so not a problem. In Star Raiders 2 I guess the purpose of black holes are 1) black holes. I mean they are cool, and they were all the rage in the 80's. 2) a pitfall if you are warping to a planet or enemy sector that seems to be near the black hole and you HAPPEN to fall out of warp at the wrong time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mo Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 If you mis-steered in hyperspace you could land in a black hole and game over. Personally, that's too random and risky. I hate strategy games with an accidental insta-kill like that. If anyone could polish this game the space combat portion remains the part which needs the most work. The reticle steering and the wonky targeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 If you mis-steered in hyperspace you could land in a black hole and game over. Personally, that's too random and risky. I hate strategy games with an accidental insta-kill like that. If anyone could polish this game the space combat portion remains the part which needs the most work. The reticle steering and the wonky targeting. I love the fact if you screw up, just like in real life...... you can pay the price... in fact I have emergency warped in star trek games and exploded or otherwise due to various obstacles, meteorites etc... this makes the game wonderful in that respect to me... I think this form of insta-kill is perfect in star raiders! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoyx Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I love the fact if you screw up, just like in real life...... you can pay the price... in fact I have emergency warped in star trek games and exploded or otherwise due to various obstacles, meteorites etc... this makes the game wonderful in that respect to me... I think this form of insta-kill is perfect in star raiders! I don't. The more something imitates real-life, the less it becomes a game. I like games, not simulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoyx Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Sure, but this shouldn't be the case in the first place, It's poor design to momentarily invert a control scheme. That's your workaround. You don't have many other options at the moment. They may never get the source code to fix such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Well have to say I got a message from Fibrewire who has done some work with Corvus drives and here is what he has to say on it. (And I still suggest trying the Corvus with another 8-bit Atari computer if that fails, so we still have options.) fibrewire Stargunner 1,601 posts Location:Southern California Sent Today, 5:12 AM Hey, just got your message. I looked through the thread and I think it's an easy fix. I left lots of notes in the corvus thread, and even posted up a demo video in march?? of the corvus system going through all fits diagnostic messages. The corvus is interesting in that it's "firmware" is stored on the disk drive. So after all the configuration dip switches (and a few under the hood are necessary as well) to get a non-functioning drive upgraded to the latest firmware and get the drive to spin up and connect. I think if the drive is spinning and not a lot of noticeable noise coming from the drive itself that (worst case scenario) there still may be hope in transplanting the drive to another corvus enclosure. I've done this a few times myself! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I don't. The more something imitates real-life, the less it becomes a game. I like games, not simulations. Oh come on.... warping in to a black hole or steering into a wrong location etc, happens in all games.... and since it likewise would happen in real life, it is perfect for a game.... at this rate just turn off all collision detection and anything that would cause harm... we can just fly thru space endlessly flitting about... no challenge no consequence... no reality.. just em being yeah that's it pretty floating pixel art... so cool. so calm... so booooring... Nope I want to shoot stuff and stuff to shoot me and running into crap to blow me up or me ramming into crap blowing it up! I wanna be immersed in the game just like Star Raiders originally did and just like this follow up Star Raiders does thank you very much! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I hate racing games that slow me down when I hit another car or barrier. Dumb simulations. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoyx Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I hate racing games that slow me down when I hit another car or barrier. Dumb simulations. Racing games are a perfect example. The more realistic the physics, the more frustrating the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I hate racing games that slow me down when I hit another car or barrier. Dumb simulations. Yep, with you there, utterly frustrating as the 20 cars you were miles ahead of suddenly woosh past you after clipping the barrier or tapping the back end of a car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mo Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) That's your workaround. You don't have many other options at the moment. They may never get the source code to fix such things. I've repeatedly stated that my critique of the game acknowledges that it was a work in progress, and if the source code is ever recovered/the game polished these are the issues I think should be addressed. As to the Black-Hole Insta-Kill, I'm gonna put my game designer hat back on for a moment: This is a game of strategy and tactics and risk to reward. If I get hit and my shields begin to fail, I can hyperspace it outta there and not risk taking a shot that will kill me, or I can choose to try to finish off the enemy ships knowing I could die with one more hit. The former is safer but costs time+energy, which means a potentially lower final rank and that the Zylons can do more damage/make the situation worse whilst I am at the starbase. If I choose to remain and fight I've decided to accept the risk of the insta-death in exchange for the potential rewards for more quickly polishing off the Zylons and maybe getting a higher rank. (Yes, the random asteroid smashing your unshielded ship is also a risk, but one that's actually easier to mitigate since you can spot them on the long-range scan.) The fact that one twitchy move in a clumsy hyperspace steer can end my game after 30+ minutes is at odds with that from a play-mechanics standpoint. Simple enough. Edited December 21, 2015 by Big_Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I think the Black Hole offers an opportunity if the source code is found. Keep it in the game but make it a quick reaction save - you screw up hyperspace and end up in the vicinity of a BH - quick action will lead to escape but if you are not paying attention you would be sucked in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Just be a good pilot and you will never be a suckzors of a black hole... problem solved.... not very difficult to pilot around in warp/hyperspace. Maybe if you dump out in a sector with a black hole in it you could escape... but the gravitational effect and the way it sucks up things down to a photon or smaller makes that a difficult prospect... going to play to check the behavior, I always dumped out within a few sectors of where I wanted to be when distracted during game play.... and botched a warp..... I don't get all mad at the program because it was me who made the mistake... squirrel... ball.... oh crap kitty cat! remember... no matter where you go.... there you are... _The Doctor__ Edited December 21, 2015 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.