+mytek Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 I am one of the lucky ones that got a board from Bryan's first release. It works quite well in my 1200XL, and has excellent character definition as well as color. I don't have an S-Video monitor so instead I am feeding it through an S-Video to HDMI converter (the latest one I found that works very well). However I can still see faint vertical banding especially against a darker solid color background (the banding is also darker in nature which is curious). I have tried minimizing the length of my S-Video cabling which is using two independent shielded cables, and tried breaking both the GND and +5V pads free and then running connections closer to the power entry and regulators without really any success, so I went back to the original bridged power connection pads. Next thought would be to run the video board off an entirely separate supply. However keep in mind that the banding I'm seeing is very minimal, so it's just me being picky, and nothing meant to diminish the value of Bryan's design, which is fantastically improved over either the stock video or even after I did the ClearPic 2002 modifications (the banding was worse in both of these cases). And the banding that I am still seeing could simply be related to the conversion to HDMI. When Bryan gets these on the AtariAge store I will definitely buy a few more. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share Posted April 24, 2016 A quick update: Although I believe UAV to be the best video upgrade available short of installing a VBXE, there is still one aspect I'm trying to improve. I have a limited number of test machines here in Costa Rica and I've spent many hours with all my computer parts strewn around the house. But on my 5200 board (which I accidentally blew up) I was recently able to reproduce the faint refresh lines on darker colors. None of my other computers show them at all with UAV and my 130XE had shown them quite clearly in stock form. The problem is made worse on LCD televisions which tend to put sharp edges on small picture variations- especially in dark areas. No amount of power reconfiguration affected them so I want to do some more testing before I commit to a board run for the store. At this point, I think the refresh noise can (a) affect the GTIA lines slightly, or (b) become induced into the UAV and may be improved with a change in position or shielding. Maybe the next version will be encased in lead. Albert is helping me get a couple more system boards, and I'll be doing more testing soon. Such are the joys of building analog circuits in the middle of a digital environment. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 (edited) A quick update: Although I believe UAV to be the best video upgrade available short of installing a VBXE, there is still one aspect I'm trying to improve. I have a limited number of test machines here in Costa Rica and I've spent many hours with all my computer parts strewn around the house. But on my 5200 board (which I accidentally blew up) I was recently able to reproduce the faint refresh lines on darker colors. None of my other computers show them at all with UAV and my 130XE had shown them quite clearly in stock form. The problem is made worse on LCD televisions which tend to put sharp edges on small picture variations- especially in dark areas. No amount of power reconfiguration affected them so I want to do some more testing before I commit to a board run for the store. At this point, I think the refresh noise can (a) affect the GTIA lines slightly, or (b) become induced into the UAV and may be improved with a change in position or shielding. Maybe the next version will be encased in lead. Albert is helping me get a couple more system boards, and I'll be doing more testing soon. Such are the joys of building analog circuits in the middle of a digital environment. I've got those same exact faint-but-noticeable lines on the left half of my screen in my Rev C 800XL, even with separate power and ground leads and viewing the composite output on a CRT. Almost imperceptible with the system is at idle, briefly more obvious during RAM/SIO access. I'd be happy to try one of your new versions if you'd like an independent tester before they go to the Store - I'll even pay for it. Let me know. Edited April 24, 2016 by DrVenkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 A quick update: Although I believe UAV to be the best video upgrade available short of installing a VBXE, there is still one aspect I'm trying to improve. I have a limited number of test machines here in Costa Rica and I've spent many hours with all my computer parts strewn around the house. But on my 5200 board (which I accidentally blew up) I was recently able to reproduce the faint refresh lines on darker colors. None of my other computers show them at all with UAV and my 130XE had shown them quite clearly in stock form. The problem is made worse on LCD televisions which tend to put sharp edges on small picture variations- especially in dark areas. No amount of power reconfiguration affected them so I want to do some more testing before I commit to a board run for the store. At this point, I think the refresh noise can (a) affect the GTIA lines slightly, or (b) become induced into the UAV and may be improved with a change in position or shielding. Maybe the next version will be encased in lead. Albert is helping me get a couple more system boards, and I'll be doing more testing soon. Such are the joys of building analog circuits in the middle of a digital environment. I'll let you know if I come up with something that either gets rid of or reduces what I am seeing. As you said an LCD TV tends to show up these discrepancies more, and that is what I am using on the HDMI output of my converter (LOL as if there was ever a CRT that had an HDMI input... silly me). - Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeless Joe Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Woo! I just installed the UAV in an Atari 400 and it's bee-yoo-tiful! I only installed the board, not the sound mod. Sound mod is next. I'm thinking of using BillC's method where I don't keep the RF output (remove R164, C177, C178, R162, use the pad for R164 connected to C183 for the audio source). No point in having the RF there, really. Anyone tried it yet? -Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevymad Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I'll let you know if I come up with something that either gets rid of or reduces what I am seeing. As you said an LCD TV tends to show up these discrepancies more, and that is what I am using on the HDMI output of my converter (LOL as if there was ever a CRT that had an HDMI input... silly me). - Michael Don't laugh too soon. I use one of my Atari's on a 30" phillips wide screen crt with hdmi.. Though I use the other inputs not the hdmi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Don't laugh too soon. I use one of my Atari's on a 30" phillips wide screen crt with hdmi.. Though I use the other inputs not the hdmi. Really!? Well I stand corrected on that statement . I never imagined that HDMI was even in use when CRT's were still being manufactured (perhaps DVI, but not HDMI). I'd hang onto that TV, because it's likely to become a collectors item. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) So, yesterday I finished the installation of the first UAV in my 800. On my monochrome monitor, the picture is perfect: My HDMI converter, on the other hand, seems to have trouble with getting the sync or something like that. The vertical lines in the above test pictures are sometimes there and the picture is really crisp. In the next moment, the vertical lines are gone. After some seconds the cycle begins again. Anything I can do about it? (I haven't tried the SVIDEO-Imput, because I have no cable at the moment.) This could be plugged into an 800 using something like: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/299-87-316-10-001101/1212-1084-ND/3757334 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/16-810-90C/A125-ND/106420 I don't think that would work. Firstly, the board would sit on the resistors left of the 4050 socket. Secondly and more importantly, the board is then high enough, that it comes into conflict with the shielding. I had trouble to put the board and the cables under shielding. Edited April 28, 2016 by JoSch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 So, yesterday I finished the installation of the first UAV in my 800. On my monochrome monitor, the picture is perfect: My HDMI converter, on the other hand, seems to have trouble with getting the sync or something like that. The vertical lines in the above test pictures are sometimes there and the picture is really crisp. In the next moment, the vertical lines are gone. After some seconds the cycle begins again. Anything I can do about it? (I haven't tried the SVIDEO-Imput, because I have no cable at the moment.) I don't think that would work. Firstly, the board would sit on the resistors left of the 4050 socket. Secondly and more importantly, the board is then high enough, that it comes into conflict with the shielding. I had trouble to put the board and the cables under shielding. I tested the 800 installation originally so I can confirm that the right angle sockets referenced earlier in the thread will not work due to clearance of the shield. The 800 is a tricky one as there really is little room underneath for the board. I ended up temporarily using a piece of card under and over the board to shield it from harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 So, yesterday I finished the installation of the first UAV in my 800. On my monochrome monitor, the picture is perfect: My HDMI converter, on the other hand, seems to have trouble with getting the sync or something like that. The vertical lines in the above test pictures are sometimes there and the picture is really crisp. In the next moment, the vertical lines are gone. After some seconds the cycle begins again. Anything I can do about it? (I haven't tried the SVIDEO-Imput, because I have no cable at the moment.) Hmm. Was it stable with the built-in composite video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Hmm. Was it stable with the built-in composite video? Too late to ask that :-/ I really don't know. I will test it with the 130XE before I modified it too. It's not the same, but perhaps gives us some glues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 OK, I hooked my 130XE to the converter. The picture is not nice, but at least stable. So I fear, that I will have to open the 800 again and tune it somehow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 OK, I hooked my 130XE to the converter. The picture is not nice, but at least stable. So I fear, that I will have to open the 800 again and tune it somehow Hmm.. I wonder what it doesn't like. Is the picture moving side to side? Can you get pictures of the two states? EDIT: As a test, take the color wire into the UAV and ground it (so there's no color coming in). Is it stable with just a B&W image? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 No, the picture is not moving. The picture gets softer and the clear vertical lines of the test app disappear, because the borders of the boxes seem to get smeared. I will try to make two pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Ok, I have some pictures and a video for showing the effect. And the Video: https://youtu.be/o1H6Qpl5oBI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Ok, I have some pictures and a video for showing the effect. Thanks. That explains it quite well. If the bars aren't on the screen (if you're running something else), do you notice any strange behavior? It seems like it's fixating on the bars and kicking in the wrong chroma filter. Really strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Yes, for example when I have Action! running, you can see the effect too. I will try to use the Svideo input to the converter if I have cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Where can I pick up color on the 400 board? I couldn't find any hints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Where can I pick up color on the 400 board? I couldn't find any hints. (thanks to orpheuswaking for the pic!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Hey Bryan, what is the deal with more boards? getting this thing back out there!!! I dont mind if I buy it through the store here, but @ what cost and WHEN! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) (thanks to orpheuswaking for the pic!) Yes, that did it. Now, this one has a crispy Svideo display. Even on the HDMI converter, with which I have trouble with the 800. Edited April 30, 2016 by JoSch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Hey Bryan, what is the deal with more boards? getting this thing back out there!!! I dont mind if I buy it through the store here, but @ what cost and WHEN! James Albert has mailed me a couple boards for testing which will hopefully be here in a couple weeks. I should be able to order the circuit boards shortly after get some time to work with them. I just want to make sure this is the final version. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Now, I finished the UAV install on my 400. For now I grab audio from POKEY. Screenshot: This looks just great on my LCD monitor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I have a couple of questions about installing the UAV in an 800XL that already has an Ultimate 1MB and the SuperVideo 2.1 mods. Does the UAV cooperate with the Ult 1MB? (I would think that it would.) Has anyone installed a UAV in a machine with the SuperVideo 2.1 mods, and if so, did any part of the mods need to be reversed for it to work? I've never been happy with the SV mod in this machine, so this seems like a really good application for a UAV. Thanks, Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Does the UAV cooperate with the Ult 1MB? (I would think that it would.) Yes. It should be fine. I think one person here posted that they were getting noise with the Ultimate in the system (I'd have to look back). Has anyone installed a UAV in a machine with the SuperVideo 2.1 mods, and if so, did any part of the mods need to be reversed for it to work? I've never been happy with the SV mod in this machine, so this seems like a really good application for a UAV. Because UAV picks off the signals at the source (the lines coming from GTIA), you shouldn't have to undo other video mods unless they're really invasive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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