Marble Madness 2: Marble Man

[Keatah]

8 hours ago, TheCoolDave said:

WOW, after 20 years trying to get a chance to play this game...

..and I didn't have to go to a convention 500 miles away. I played in the comfort of home, on my schedule, on quality hardware. No annoying crowd either. [finished that for you]

[negative1]

8 hours ago, Crimefighter said:

Well someone has 1cc'ed and MAXED OUT the score today, Canadian gamer Eric Pearl --
 

 

good job on the player. looks like exploits are:

1 get all the flags - tons of points

2 build up time, since every 5k you get 5 more sec

3 kill tons of enemies , especially on king of the mountain

4 repeat as need

 

max score

 

you should actually add the extra bonus points to the score

to track over 1 million to see what he really got.

 

====

so now for more challenges

- no flag track - since the bonuses are overpowering

- no powerup track - since the powerups all are over balanced

 

 

later

[negative1]

Article :

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/05/after-30-years-the-world-can-now-play-the-lost-marble-madness-ii/

 

later

-1

[Keatah]

The old ball & chain got to playing this once I put it on her rig. She thought there was too much going on with both sound and graphics. Not quite fatiguing but defo overdone. Too many elements. Too many notes. Just too busy. I completely agree there.

 

And didn't Marble Man have 17 levels? How many does this have?

[negative1]

7 hours ago, Keatah said:

The old ball & chain got to playing this once I put it on her rig. She thought there was too much going on with both sound and graphics. Not quite fatiguing but defo overdone. Too many elements. Too many notes. Just too busy. I completely agree there.

 

And didn't Marble Man have 17 levels? How many does this have?

17 levels including the practice and 3 bonus levels. They're all here.

 

They didn't want it to look exactly like the original,

which is why the graphics have been changed.

 

Maybe the marble has more 'personality' now. But thats about it.

 

later

-1

[H.E.R.O.]

A long, arduous and probably unnecessary journey. From a promise sealed with a kiss to a an unnamed programmer after an alleged dumpster diving saved the roms to what was basically an early crowdfund...with ZERO idea after people 'pledged' (how were they going to get him the money? Everyone send money orders in the mail?) to Akka Arhh allegedly being stolen yet merrily found its way to MAME to .245 where we all get to see if the hype was worth 30 years of waiting and debate.

 

Now we all play it for 3 minutes and never speak of this again.

[Keatah]

245 supports this?

[H.E.R.O.]

34 minutes ago, Keatah said:

245 supports this?

It will, allegedly. .244 just came out so maybe a month away or so.

[Keatah]

3 hours ago, H.E.R.O. said:

Now we all play it for 3 minutes and never speak of this again.

It's really the internet's doings. Excessive hype. Same as "big name" crowdfunded consoles that are announced 2 years before even a possible release. The discussions go into high gear, then interest fades because nothing happens. We feel as if we done owned it and played it. Loads of teaser videos don't help either - because there's nothing left to discover. And so the developer scrambles for new ideas to keep the interest up. And that causes price increases. And feature creep. And bloat. Definitely bloat. It's a cycle we see again and again.

 

Marble Madness II and Akka Arhh are singular games. Much smaller side shows. So there's only so much that can be discussed and previewed. It's not like we're exploring a new artform in the 70's and 80's either.

 

Additionally there's the short-game-syndrome. Players of influence today aren't really into games lasting all but 5 or 10 minutes anyways. Short small games with limited levels and nothing to insidiously tweak the addiction center aren't a thing today. Complete opposite of mobile gaming.

 

MMII is preserved and archived. What's next?

[negative1]

5 hours ago, Keatah said:

Marble Madness II and Akka Arhh are singular games. Much smaller side shows. So there's only so much that can be discussed and previewed. It's not like we're exploring a new artform in the 70's and 80's either.

 

Additionally there's the short-game-syndrome. Players of influence today aren't really into games lasting all but 5 or 10 minutes anyways. Short small games with limited levels and nothing to insidiously tweak the addiction center aren't a thing today. Complete opposite of mobile gaming.

 

MMII is preserved and archived. What's next?

I'm still playing akka arrh, there's a lot left to discover.

 

marble madness 2 can be finished in under 15 minutes for speedruns, so its not that short.

it usually takes about 20 minutes.

 

you guys might only play it for a few minutes, but fans of the games will continue

playing it until they master it and then keep on improving.

 

later

-1

Edited May 28, 2022 by negative1

[H.E.R.O.]

You never know. It may end up like some movies that are 'so bad it's good' and enjoy the pain.

[Dutchman2000]

Some more information on the hardware:

 

			MARBLE MAN HARDWARE DESCRIPTION			Rev.5

CREATED: 910915 by Tim Hubberstey
REVISED: 910403

		PLEASE ADVISE OF ANY ERRORS OR OMISSIONS

Microprocessor:

. ONE 68000 running @ 7.16 MHZ or 14.316Mhz (or a 68010 @ 7.16 only)
. Program ROM:	- 1 Mbytes using 1 meg Eproms including bank-switchable security
		  area. At 14MHz one wait state is required.
. Program RAM:	- up to 64Kbytes of dedicated working RAM.
. Interrupts:	- Autovectored:
		    Sound port -  level 6
		    VAD interrupt - level 4
. Input/output:	- JAMMA edge connector
		- 2 or 3 trackball inputs (center player deleted for 2)
		- 8 button inputs including 2 start buttons
		- Sound port read/write/reset/self-test (JSAIII PCB) 
. Watchdog:	- Barks if not stroked at least once every 7 frames (117ms)
. EEPROM:	- 2K bytes (occupying 2K words, hi byte not there)
		- Must UNLOCK before writing data (to prevent power on false 
		  writes)
		- Must be LOCKED before reading data. (Any low byte write LOCKS)
		- Must wait 10mS min. between writes.

. Video:	- 64K or 16K bytes divided as :
		    Scrolling playfield   8K bytes 
		    Motion Object	  8K bytes
		    Working RAM  	  48K bytes, only if 64K total
		- 2K bytes of color RAM in 4 512-byte banks (occupying 2K words,
		  lo byte not there)

Graphics:

A.  Display: - 336 x 240 pixels - (42 x 30 stamps) standard res. monitor.

B.  Playfield:	- Size:  64 stamps x 64 stamps
		- Visible screen:  42 stamps x 30 stamps
		- Stamp size:  8 pixels x 8 pixels x 8 bits/pixel
		- Independent smooth scrolling horizontally & vertically.
		- 16K stamps
Picture:
	 D15 D14 D13 D12 D11 D10  D9  D8  D7  D6  D5  D4  D3  D2  D1  D0
	+---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---+
	| H |                             PIC #               		|
	+---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---+

Playfield 1 picture 7D8000-7D9FFF
	H	  = Horizontal flip (can ba a picture bit if required)
	PIC # 	  = Picture number. (15 bits).

PLAYFIELD PICTURE COORDINATES:

		PLAYFIELD  HORZ. SCROLL REGISTER.
				   |
   pixels--> 0			   |				     1FF
      |      |<--------------------|-------------------------------->|
      |	     |			   |				     |
      v				   |
      0	---  ----------------------|----------------------------------
	^    |__|<--7D8000         |                     7D9F80-->|__|     ^
	|    |__|<--7D8002         |                     7D9F82-->|__|     |
	|    |			   |				     |     |
	|    |			   |				     |     |
VERT.	|    |			   v<----42 STAMPS---->		     |     64  
      -------|-------------------->|------------------		     |  STAMPS
SCROLL	|    |               ^     |                 |		     |     |
	|    |               |     |                 |		     |     |
REG   	|    |              30     |                 |		     |     |
	|    |             STAMPS  |    SCREEN       |		     |     |
	|    |               |     |                 |		     |     |
	|    |               V     |_________________|		     |     |
	|    |__						   __|     |
	v    |__|<--7D807C                               7D9FFC-->|__|     v
    1FF	___  |__|<--7D807E_______________________________7D9FFE-->|__|
  	 
	     <----------------------64 STAMPS------------------------>

C.  Motion Objects:  
		- 56 M.O.'s (1 stamp wide) visible on any scan line
		- M.O.s can be up to 8 x 8 Stamps (64 x 64 pixels)
		- M.O. processing is pipelined to allow more than 56 stamps 
			worth to be processed per line.
		- Last in highest priority motion object line buffer.
		- "Linked" M.O.'s
		- A new starting link pointer (SLIP) for every 8 scan lines 
			of the playfield
		- H and V positions relative to a variable reference point.
		- 1024 motion object descriptors
		- Stamp size:  8 pixels x 8 pixels x 4 bits/pixel
		- 16K stamps.

	Each motion object is specified by 4 words in the motion object RAM 
		as follows:

ADDRESS |D15 D14 D13 D12 D11 D10  D9  D8  D7  D6  D5  D4  D3  D2  D1  D0
	+---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---+
7DAxx0	| X   X   X   X   X   X |	          LINK   		|
	+---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---+
7DAxx2	|HF |          PIC #                      			|
	+---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---+
7DAxx4	|	   	HPOS           	    | x   x   x |PRI| PALETTE	|
	+---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---+
7DAxx6	|		VPOS                |  H SIZE   | x |  V SIZE   |
	+---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---.---+---+---+---+

	HF:	Horizontal Flip
	H SIZE:	Number of stamps wide - 1 (0=1 stamp,...,7=8 stamps)
	V SIZE:	Number of stamps tall - 1
	PALETTE: Color palette select (0 - 7)
	PRI:	Motion object to playfield priority.
		0 = MO wins over low priority PF, 1 = MO always wins
	PIC #:  Picture #.
	LINK:	The link register specifies the next higher priority motion
		object to be displayed.  The M.O. that is linked (drawn) last
		has the highest priority. D[15:10] are spare and can be used 
		for any purpose.
	VPOS:	The vertical position (of the lower left corner) of the 
		motion object relative to MOVSCROLL.
	HPOS:	The horizontal position (of the lower left corner) of the 
		motion object relative to MOHSCROLL.
	SLIP:	(Starting LInk Pointer) The first object processed on every
		line is determined by a SLIP. The 64 slips correspond to the 64
		rows of playfield stamps. 

			SCROLL, MOB AND VAD CONFIGURATION

	 D15 D14 D13 D12 D11 D10 D9 D8 D7 D6 D5 D4 D3 D2 D1 D0
	+---+---+---+---.---+---+--+--.--+--+--+--.--+--+--+--+
	|       DATA               		  |PARAM CODE |
	+---+---+---+---.---+---+--+--.--+--+--+--.--+--+--+--+

Motion objects scroll (universe) registers are completely seperate from
playfield provided that the playfield scroll register addresses are higher than
the motion object register addersses.

The following address range must be used for the scroll registers and MOB 
configuration words : $7DBF00 - $7DBF7F. Unused words in this range MUST be 0.

VAD_reg, Shadow    Mnemonic       Value
 7CFFC0, 7DBF00   HDW_ENABLE     8000	A000
 7CFFC2, 7DBF02   HDW_VSY_LD     0795
 7CFFC4, 7DBF04   HDW_VBL_LD     0AEF
 7CFFC6, 7DBF06   HDW_VINT       00EF
 7CFFC8, 7DBF08   HDW_HSY_LD     5EEF
 7CFFCA, 7DBF0A   HDW_HBL_LD     BEB2
 7CFFCC, 7DBF0C   HDW_SLIP_LD    6F05
 7CFFCE, 7DBF0E   HDW_APDMA_LD   B301	B384
 7CFFD0, 7DBF10   HDW_PMBASE_LD  9228	9229
 7CFFD2, 7DBF12   HDW_ALBASE_LD  02FF	6FF
 7CFFD4, 7DBF14   HDW_OPT_LD     0E50	4450		??4e10/0e10??

 7CFFE0, 7DBF20   HDW_MOCON      5B95	5B85		??5b95??
 7CFFE2, 7DBF22   HDW_PCON       BC96	AC86	CC86	??cc96??
 7CFFE4, 7DBF24   HDW_GRCON      3427	3027
 7CFFE6, 7DBF26   MO_HSCROLL     0009
 7CFFE8, 7DBF28   PF1_HSCROLL    000A
 7CFFEA, 7DBF2A   PF2_HSCROLL    000B
 7CFFEC, 7DBF2C   MO_VSCROLL     000D
 7CFFEE, 7DBF2E   PF1_VSCROLL    000E
 7CFFF0, 7DBF30   PF2_VSCROLL    000F

HDW_ENABLE = 0XC000 to disable VAD internal registers from being refreshed
           from the shadow locations in Alpha RAM until the next VINT_ACK.
HDW_ENABLE = 0x8000 to enable the shadow registers.
HDW_ENABLE = 0x0    to disable the registers in the range 7CFFC2-7CFFD4.

The parameters will be read by the hardware shortly after the beginning of 
VBLANK 
D.  Priority:
	- Motion objects at priority 1 are highest
	- Playfield pixels with bit 7 hi are next
	- Motion objects at priority 0 are next
	- Playfield pixels with bit 7 lo are lowest

E.  Color RAM:
	There are 4 banks of color RAM. Bank 0 is selected following reset. See
	LATCH for location of bank select bits. 

		COLOR RAM ADDRESSING

	PLAYFIELD HI BYTE     = 3C0000 + Picture bits * 4
	PLAYFIELD LO BYTE     = 3C0002 + Picture bits * 4
	MOTION OBJECT HI BYTE = 3C0200 + Picture bits * 4 + Color palette * $40
	MOTION OBJECT LO BYTE = 3C0202 + Picture bits * 4 + Color palette * $40
	
	Color RAM data interpretation:
		D[15]	  LSB of R, G & B combined
		D[14:10]  Red
		D[9:5]	  Green
		D[4:0]	  Blue
	In all cases, $0 = OFF	      $1F = highest intensity.
			
NOTE: Graphics pixel data in playfield and MO roms is high true. (not inverted)
			 MARBLE MAN
	VIDEO 68010 MEMORY-MAP	ADDRESS		R/W	DATA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Program ROM (secured)		000000~0FFFFF	R	D[15:0]
(double-mapped, not secured)	100000~1FFFFF	R	D[15:0]

EEPROM			     ++	601001~612FFF	R/W	D[7:0]
Watch Dog (117ms timeout)    ++	607000	 	  W	xx

Video RAM	(16K)		7C0000~7DFFFF	R/W	D[15:0]
  Color RAM Motion Object	7C0200~7C03FF	R/W	D[15:0]
  Color RAM Playfield 		7C0400~7C05FF	R/W	D[15:0]

  Playfield picture RAM		7D8000~7D9FFF	R/W	D[15:0]	
  Motion Object RAM		7DA000~7DBEFF	R/W 	D[15:0]	
   (Link, Picture, H-Pos, V-Pos, Link... etc.)
  Hardware config		7DBF00~7DBF7F	R/W	D[15:0]
  SLIP pointers			7DBF80~7DBFFF	R/W	M.O. link pointers

Program RAM     (16K)		7F8000~7FBFFF	R/W	D[15:0]
		(64K)		7F0000~7FFFFF	R/W	D[15:0]

Note:	All addresses can be accessed in byte or word mode except as noted. RAM
	at 7F0000 is multiple mapped at FF0000 to take  advantage of 68000
	"QUICK" addressing mode.

Security: The security scheme is yet to be determined. It will involve bank
	  switching the last ROM of program memory (0C0000~0FFFFF). This ROM 
	  will have 2 wait states at 14MHz (0 at 7MHz)

++ These addresses and those listed below are part of the Consistent Memory Map
   and as such should be defined as offsets from the base address of 600000 to
   allow portability.
These addresses are part of the Consistent Memory Map and as such should be
defined as offsets from the base address of 600000 to allow portability.

CONSISTENT I/O MEMORY-MAP	ADDRESS		R/W	DATA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Left player input 		600000.B	R	D[1:0]
Center player input 		600001.B 	R	D[1:0]
Right player input		600002.B	R	D[1:0]
Spare input			600003.B	R	D[1:0]
		D1  :	Button 1		Active lo
		D0  :	Start			Active lo
NOTE: Center player removed for 2-player game

When used as 2-player JAMMA with 3 buttons + start button per player:
Player inputs			600000		R	D[9:8],D[1:0]
		D9  :	Left Button 1		Active lo
		D8  :	Left Start		Active lo
		D1  :	Right Button 2		Active lo
		D0  :	Left Button 2		Active lo
Player inputs			600002		R	D[9:8],D[1:0]
		D9  :	Right Button 1		Active lo
		D8  :	Right Start		Active lo
		D1  :	Right Button 3		Active lo
		D0  :	Left Button 3		Active lo

Status inputs			600010		R	D[7:4]
		D7  :	VBLANK			Active lo
		D6  :	Self-test		Active lo
		D5  :	Write to Audio full	Active lo
		D4  :	Read from Audio full	Active lo

Other inputs			600012		R	D[7:4]
		D7  :	Test			Active lo
		D6  :	Service/Test		Active lo *
		D5  :	Service/Test		Active lo
		D4  :	Service/Test		Active lo
	* only D6 actually connected to Service switch input

LETAs (LETA Mode = 0)	600020.B~600027.B 	R
		600027.B : Left player trackball X
		600026.B : not used
		600025.B : Left player trackball Y
		600024.B : not used
		600023.B : Right player trackball X
		600022.B : Center player trackball X
		600021.B : Right player trackball Y
		600020.B : Center player trackball Y
LETA 1 (Mode = 1)	6C0020.B		R	D[3:0]
		D3  :	Center player joystick down
		D2  :	Center player joystick up
		D1  :	Center player joystick right
		D0  :	Center player joystick left
LETA 0 (Mode = 1)	6C0021.B		R	D[7:0]
		D7  :	Left player joystick down
		D6  :	Left player joystick up
		D5  :	Left player joystick right
		D4  :	Left player joystick left
		D3  :	Right player joystick down
		D2  :	Right player joystick up
		D1  :	Right player joystick right
		D0  :	Right player joystick left

Sound Processor Read		600030		R	D[7:0]
Sound Processor Write		600040		  W	D[7:0]

LATCH (cleared by RESET)	600050		  W	D[10:4]
		D10 :	Color RAM bank select - MSB
		D9  :	Color RAM bank select - LSB
		D7  :	Center player LETA mode: 0=sensors, 1=switches
		D6  :	Right/left player LETA mode: 0=sensors, 1=switches
		D5  :	LETA resolution, 0=lo
		D4  :	Audio board reset (active lo)
		D1  :	Left coin counter & VCR Power
		D0  :	Right coin counter 

Unlock EEPROM			600060.B	  W	xx
	BYTE WRITE ONLY!! Word write may not unlock

Video IRQ Acknowledge		7CFFFC		  W	0
	Writing other than 0 may cause strange problems to occur

 

[Dutchman2000]

And some notes on the changes and why they were made:

 

                         Changes to Marble Madness II
                             Proposed 4/23/91

    A.  From the Focus we learned that the trakball is the more intuitive
	control to roll a marble, and that it is the desired control for the
	high-end player.  But, the joystick was percieved as an easier control
	for a beginner to learn the game.  Thus, we would like to change the
	trakball control to a joystick, and see if we gain a wider audience.
	In order to gain the variable speed of the trakball control we need to
	add a "turbo" button with the joystick.  From in-house play and the
	Focus, the "turbo" was seen as a fun new feature.

    B.  There was no objection to the "cuteness" level of the game from the
	Focus.  But the players did feel the tranformation to Marble Man was
	"hokey, "stupid," and meaningless.  We will remove "Marble Man" from
	the entire game.  This means the Title screen, cabinet artwork, pinball
	spell outs, and goal transformation all need to be changed.  There were
	objections to the "scream" of acid death, and the fall grunt from the
	marble.  We would like to change these voices to something more comical
	rather than realistic.

    C.  There were general elements of confusion.
	    1.  Players did not find the power towers until many hours of play.
		We can modify the tower graphics by placing the animating power
		sphere on top of the tower.
	    2.  Players	were confused by score and time bubbles that look like
		marbles. Since the flags have values on them there is no need
		to give a score bubble, instead we will merely change the color
		of the flag to the player color to let him know he recieved the
		points.  Second, we will replace the "100" flags that lead the
		player to the goal with miniture checkered goal flags.  These
		new flags will have no collision and award no score value.
		(They will provide a clear path to the goal.)
	    3.  It was not clear to players that after a score threshold was
		reached the player recieved extra time.  All score flags will
		be worth from 1,000 to 5,000 points with the score threshold
		being every 5,000 points.  This will provide a more immediate
		feedback of the "score gives time" rule.
	    4.  There was a lack of basic instructions.(ie. We never told
		the player to get to the goal before the clock reaches 0.)
		We will add the necessary instructions to the "Start Screen."
	    5.  Also there was confusion concerning how much time the player
		thought he had to complete the wave from the wave start.
		We will place the track messages on a black background and
		animate a 5 digit from the track clock to every players' clock.

    D.  There were some specific multi-player problems mentioned at the
	Focus.  
	    1. 	One,Players' did not like going to the trouble of breaking a
		tower and then losing the power to someone else.  We can
		guarantee that the player who breaks the tower recieves the
		power right away.
	    2.  Also the scrolling was annoying in multiplayer play.  It was
		apparent that players did not want to hold others up by not
		being able to keep up, and they did not want to be slowed by
		players who could not keep up with them.  If we return the
		scroller to the original Marble Madness type scrolling, the
		lead marble will always control the screen position and poorer
		players will be moved forward for free. (Marble Madness took 5
		seconds off the player moved ahead)  This means players will
		not be held up and will not hold up others.

    E.  Players wish to have more powers that last longer.  Specifically they
	wanted more Helicopter Power.  We can give them more Helicopter Power
	for longer if we restrict the scroller.  One solution is to simply
	not let the lead marble control the scroller if he has Helicopter
	power.

    F.  The first round ramping was a significant problem in the field tests.
	We have far too many people quitting before they reach the first pin.
	We are going to redo enemies in the first round to more closely
	match the orignal Marble Madness design, where the difficulty was in
	learning terrain with an occaisional enemy.  We will give the players
	more continue time in the 1st round.

    In order to get a new field test we need the following:
	New control panel assembly (harness, graphics, 3 joysticks, 6 buttons)
	New MOB/PF graphics
	New program/adpcm/audio
    Note:  For every unit to be placed on field test we need the above.

    We estimate it will take 2 weeks to complete the program changes that
    are necessary to re-test the game.
    So, Monday, May 6, we will place a new version in the common area for
    1 week of game pounding.
    On Monday, May 13, we will be able to place a new version out on field test.

 

[Keatah]

On 5/28/2022 at 9:24 AM, negative1 said:

I'm still playing akka arrh, there's a lot left to discover.

I have yet to get into the game. I will eventually.

 

Quote

you guys might only play it for a few minutes, but fans of the games will continue

playing it until they master it and then keep on improving.

On a shmup kick at the moment. Sure I'll get into MM2 at some point too. I suppose I see it as a continuation of the 1st game. Just simply more of it.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Keatah

[gambler172]

is there a rom available?

[Keatah]

Yes there is!

[Keatah]

On 5/29/2022 at 8:18 AM, H.E.R.O. said:

You never know. It may end up like some movies that are 'so bad it's good' and enjoy the pain.

I don't think MM2 is that bad. It's also not that important either. It just is.

[negative1]

5 hours ago, Keatah said:

I don't think MM2 is that bad. It's also not that important either. It just is.

i'm waiting for missile command 2 to come out now.

 

let the hunt begin for that.

 

later

-1

[orange808]

It's a relief to finally get past the Pink Panther and Marble Madness 2 rom begging and complaining. Everything will eventually find its way out into the romz.

 

The funny thing is that MM2 has been available to play often (on site) for years. Many people have volunteered feedback on the mediocre gameplay. It's not a polished product. I hate the tower mechanic. Atari over engineered the game. It needed to be completely reworked. It sounds bad to recycle the original design with modified maps and updated assets, but that's precisely what this release was begging for.

 

I enjoy the development documents and focus testing notes. I can't figure out if the joystick was a hail mary to save the game or if the devs really believed the trackball was an issue. The game (itself) is the problem, not the trackball. I still wonder if the devs knew they had gone too far with a bad design and they were trying to salvage it.

 

It's hard to believe the devs actually believed people couldn't understand a trackball. The same general theoretical overall "sample group" (at significantly more advanced ages) managed to understand using a Wiimote. I also personally saw little kids playing the original Marble Madness on site cab (using the trackball) in it's heyday. The intuitive nature of the trackball was the hook. The connection between the marble and the trackball was a major part of Marble Madness's appeal.

 

I assume the focus testing results were either misunderstood or massaged. MM2's problem is:  MM2. The inherently intuitive nature of mirroring a ball controller to the ball on the screen is obvious and understood--and that isn't hindsight. I knew that in 1990. I still have a hard time believing the trackball was ever really in question. If it was, well... ... game designers shouldn't recreate or use Atari's focus group methods.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by orange808

[Keatah]

3 hours ago, orange808 said:

It sounds bad to recycle the original design with modified maps and updated assets, but that's precisely what this release was begging for.

I would've been happy with without the cutesy personalization of the marble. It doesn't let me (distractionly-free) impose my own. That's part of the appeal of early videogames overall - being able to internalize a game to your imagination.

 

It's a mixed bag (of marbles) as to whether it's too busy. The first MM felt a little empty. Sparse levels. This one feels too much. Not too many actual levels. But too much other stuff going on in them. There are no coasting or cool-down periods. Certainly the audio is overpowering. Not in volume, but in the amount of it. Everything seems to make a sound. Just too much.

 

3 hours ago, orange808 said:

I enjoy the development documents and focus testing notes. I can't figure out if the joystick was a hail mary to save the game or if the devs really believed the trackball was an issue.

Well I never was a fan of the trackball much. They always felt imprecise and sloppy. I grew up with "digital" joysticks. And the only analog/proportional controls I get excited about are for flight sims and other sandboxy stuff.

[Justin De Lucia]

So what will happen to the supposed reproduction cabinets and boards with trackball controls in production now that the proto was leaked for everyone to experience? Do you think they'll still get made?

[negative1]

6 hours ago, Justin De Lucia said:

So what will happen to the supposed reproduction cabinets and boards with trackball controls in production now that the proto was leaked for everyone to experience? Do you think they'll still get made?

of course they will.

 

there is still a huge interest in getting a board, putting it in a cabinet, and playing that way.

especially if they can hack the trackball controls back into it.

 

i would love to have a copy of the board and buy a system 1 machine (if that's what it takes)

to play the original too. (and road runner, etc)

 

later

-1

[negative1]

20 hours ago, orange808 said:

It's a relief to finally get past the Pink Panther and Marble Madness 2 rom begging and complaining. Everything will eventually find its way out into the romz.

 

The funny thing is that MM2 has been available to play often (on site) for years. Many people have volunteered feedback on the mediocre gameplay. It's not a polished product. I hate the tower mechanic. Atari over engineered the game. It needed to be completely reworked. It sounds bad to recycle the original design with modified maps and updated assets, but that's precisely what this release was begging for.

none of those reviews, or footage explored the game fully.

 

none of those players were experts at marble madness.

 

not one of them complained or commented about the imbalance in gameplay.

 

only now after people have scrutinized it, that we now about it.

 

it's easy to complain after that fact.

 

later

-1

Edited June 3, 2022 by negative1

[+GoldLeader]

I watched a bit of the video and it looked like fun!  Maybe not perfect, but fun.

[orange808]

3 hours ago, negative1 said:

none of those reviews, or footage explored the game fully.

 

none of those players were experts at marble madness.

 

not one of them complained or commented about the imbalance in gameplay.

 

only now after people have scrutinized it, that we now about it.

 

it's easy to complain after that fact.

 

later

-1

To be perfectly honest, people were so damn busy begging for the rom, they didn't ever really stop to listen to anything anyone ever said about the game. The first thing a person always got (if you did weigh in on playing) was, "Where can I get a free romz downloadz?" "Do you have the romz?" 

 

Did nobody ever talk about it at all.. or did the conversation always go toxic? Rom beggers didn't want to talk about the game at all. They wanted to bitch that they didn't have their free download yet.