VectorGamer Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I think Mike is toast in the retro community for the foreseeable future. Even if he came back to apologize no one would believe him and no one is ever going to trust him again (at least not for a long long time). I sure hope this wasn't his only hobby because he's not going to be on many people's friends list these days. He's done. There's nothing he can do to redeem himself. Adios. I've gone through different emotions throughout this whole fiasco. I laughed at the disaster that was the Indiegogo campaign. To take someone else's product and claim it as his own at the toy fair made me angry. That was absolutely obscene what he did. When I saw the photograph of the last faked prototype I immediately thought it was just some PC board inside. When you guys nailed it to a specific board I just cringed. I called him out in the subscribers forum for only coming around to the AA forums when he wants to sell something. He knows he has a large audience here and all the money he's made he never had the decency to repay AtariAge by simply subscribing to the site. Judging by the Facebook page I had no doubt that if he went through with the Kickstarter and he kept the target reasonable there were enough people not in the know that this would've been a successful Kickstarter. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 6. After careful consideration, we realized we needed to put even more time into this system to push more features that we felt were lacking with the original - er, second Original idea - third? Anyways.... I'm also excited to announce a new partnership with K&Y! We're going to screw you, so it may as well be as easy as possible! Please back our new Kickstarter in two weeks, which is totally enough time to make a system. I mean, we have the shell, so we're almost done, as that's one of the last steps when making a system. Or something.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClassyGamer Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I mean, how bad can he be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I'm sure the Coleco rights holders will be joining those who already moved on in about a week or so, but why delay the inevitable? I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Coleco is telling the whole truth or that they're actually doing what that Facebook post said they are doing. I don't get why they said anything at all. It's amateur hour over there. I've gone through different emotions throughout this whole fiasco. I laughed at the disaster that was the Indiegogo campaign. To take someone else's product and claim it as his own at the toy fair made me angry. That was absolutely obscene what he did. When I saw the photograph of the last faked prototype I immediately thought it was just some PC board inside. When you guys nailed it to a specific board I just cringed. I called him out in the subscribers forum for only coming around to the AA forums when he wants to sell something. He knows he has a large audience here and all the money he's made he never had the decency to repay AtariAge by simply subscribing to the site. Judging by the Facebook page I had no doubt that if he went through with the Kickstarter and he kept the target reasonable there were enough people not in the know that this would've been a successful Kickstarter. That Facebook page is what made me the angriest. All those dupes lined up to hand money to the dreamer's scheme, while anyone who politely asked why the Emperor had no clothes was silenced and banned. For what it's worth, I don't think the likes and "I want to play this with my children and teach them about 1980s technology" sentiment would have added up to real financial support. It's easy to click the Like button, but a bigger barrier to put up money for an empty promise with no prototype and no guarantee of success. They got $80K from the IGG when they had nothing to show except for the Jaguar case and cartridge renderings. Everything they showed since then has been LITERALLY WORSE THAN NOTHING because of their silly tricks. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 ... Exactly. There's a big difference between someone who intends to scam people from the get go and a naive person who starts lying out of desperation. Neither are good but one is far worse than the other. According to Pipercub revelation wrt to the time Mike's retro-console idea was just a souped up Genesis, Mike already started transferring IP around various companies, letting the others behind with excuses like "I do not have enough stocks to share" or something along those lines. Pipercub even listed 3 entities registered for the purpose. He may NOT have deceived any customer at that stage but he surely deceived his various teams. If I understood what Pipercub said I believe he went through, used and burned a few teams even before the first RVGS run of the mill. John was allegedly number 3 of 4 in the list already. And he made well sure the old team had little to no recourse on his actions by transferring IPs around letting the old friends owning a whole lot of nothing. So I am not sure as to when you thought Mike was "little girl" clean, but for the past year (since the RVGS was announced) he's done nothing but lie and cheat both publicly and behind the back of his team mates. I think wrt to the current situation Bill summed it up so eloquently that is worth rereading multiple times. Repeat with me!!! Intent is really irrelevant at this point. The facts are that the last two prototypes were unequivocally proven fraudulent. So whether it was an intentional deception or an extraordinarily unlikely unintentional deception, as in Mike somehow not having enough of a basic technical/logical understanding to know the difference between a mass manufactured board and a one-off prototype board, it's clear that no one there is equipped either morally or technologically to see this project through to completion. The Coleco rights holders giving 7 days for Mike and team to turn in a working prototype is also irrelevant. Even if that were somehow magically delivered, the project is still irrevocably lost to a PR nightmare. You don't experience multiple public failures, deceptions, mismanagement, and poor communication and get infinite re-do's without a massive financial war chest, and we already know that this project had little-to-no such war chest from the start, hence a lot of the non-marketing-related core issues that this project suffered. It's time for everyone associated to move on and put this mess behind them. I'm sure the Coleco rights holders will be joining those who already moved on in about a week or so, but why delay the inevitable? Intent is really irrelevant at this point. The facts are that the last two prototypes were unequivocally proven fraudulent. So whether it was an intentional deception or an extraordinarily unlikely unintentional deception, as in Mike somehow not having enough of a basic technical/logical understanding to know the difference between a mass manufactured board and a one-off prototype board, it's clear that no one there is equipped either morally or technologically to see this project through to completion. The Coleco rights holders giving 7 days for Mike and team to turn in a working prototype is also irrelevant. Even if that were somehow magically delivered, the project is still irrevocably lost to a PR nightmare. You don't experience multiple public failures, deceptions, mismanagement, and poor communication and get infinite re-do's without a massive financial war chest, and we already know that this project had little-to-no such war chest from the start, hence a lot of the non-marketing-related core issues that this project suffered. It's time for everyone associated to move on and put this mess behind them. I'm sure the Coleco rights holders will be joining those who already moved on in about a week or so, but why delay the inevitable? Intent is really irrelevant at this point. The facts are that the last two prototypes were unequivocally proven fraudulent. So whether it was an intentional deception or an extraordinarily unlikely unintentional deception, as in Mike somehow not having enough of a basic technical/logical understanding to know the difference between a mass manufactured board and a one-off prototype board, it's clear that no one there is equipped either morally or technologically to see this project through to completion. The Coleco rights holders giving 7 days for Mike and team to turn in a working prototype is also irrelevant. Even if that were somehow magically delivered, the project is still irrevocably lost to a PR nightmare. You don't experience multiple public failures, deceptions, mismanagement, and poor communication and get infinite re-do's without a massive financial war chest, and we already know that this project had little-to-no such war chest from the start, hence a lot of the non-marketing-related core issues that this project suffered. It's time for everyone associated to move on and put this mess behind them. I'm sure the Coleco rights holders will be joining those who already moved on in about a week or so, but why delay the inevitable? Intent is really irrelevant at this point. The facts are that the last two prototypes were unequivocally proven fraudulent. So whether it was an intentional deception or an extraordinarily unlikely unintentional deception, as in Mike somehow not having enough of a basic technical/logical understanding to know the difference between a mass manufactured board and a one-off prototype board, it's clear that no one there is equipped either morally or technologically to see this project through to completion. The Coleco rights holders giving 7 days for Mike and team to turn in a working prototype is also irrelevant. Even if that were somehow magically delivered, the project is still irrevocably lost to a PR nightmare. You don't experience multiple public failures, deceptions, mismanagement, and poor communication and get infinite re-do's without a massive financial war chest, and we already know that this project had little-to-no such war chest from the start, hence a lot of the non-marketing-related core issues that this project suffered. It's time for everyone associated to move on and put this mess behind them. I'm sure the Coleco rights holders will be joining those who already moved on in about a week or so, but why delay the inevitable? Intent is really irrelevant at this point. The facts are that the last two prototypes were unequivocally proven fraudulent. So whether it was an intentional deception or an extraordinarily unlikely unintentional deception, as in Mike somehow not having enough of a basic technical/logical understanding to know the difference between a mass manufactured board and a one-off prototype board, it's clear that no one there is equipped either morally or technologically to see this project through to completion. The Coleco rights holders giving 7 days for Mike and team to turn in a working prototype is also irrelevant. Even if that were somehow magically delivered, the project is still irrevocably lost to a PR nightmare. You don't experience multiple public failures, deceptions, mismanagement, and poor communication and get infinite re-do's without a massive financial war chest, and we already know that this project had little-to-no such war chest from the start, hence a lot of the non-marketing-related core issues that this project suffered. It's time for everyone associated to move on and put this mess behind them. I'm sure the Coleco rights holders will be joining those who already moved on in about a week or so, but why delay the inevitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atm94404 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I am really glad to see a lot of people subscribing to this awesome site, as well as a lot of newcomers here. I have been here for 4 years and regretfully wish I would have joined sooner and I was just about to enter my Senior year when Atari Nexus started (remember that) before the change over a few years later. I became a subscriber last summer and paid for the two year subscription. I may even tack on another 2 years on top of the one I am at for 3 and a half plus years remaining. It is $50 well spent. And Albert really deserves every penny. What he has done for us is awesome and I absolutley want to return the favor for him. I am not enforcing anybody to do this but even as little as $5 will help out in dividends. A 2 year subscription is paying just a fraction over $2 a month!!! And you get awesome benefits including a discount at the store! I have met a ton of awesome people here and learned so much from many. I am happy to call this nuthouse like a big family. Most of us are all goofy and have a wacky sense of humor but we are like a big family here. Ditto. For all you who briefly flirted with buying a RVGS or CC, think of a subscription to AA as the money you pay to have a mechanic check out a used car. This site saved you pissing away $150+. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Intent is really irrelevant at this point. The facts are that the last two prototypes were unequivocally proven fraudulent. So whether it was an intentional deception or an extraordinarily unlikely unintentional deception, as in Mike somehow not having enough of a basic technical/logical understanding to know the difference between a mass manufactured board and a one-off prototype board, it's clear that no one there is equipped either morally or technologically to see this project through to completion. The Coleco rights holders giving 7 days for Mike and team to turn in a working prototype is also irrelevant. Even if that were somehow magically delivered, the project is still irrevocably lost to a PR nightmare. You don't experience multiple public failures, deceptions, mismanagement, and poor communication and get infinite re-do's without a massive financial war chest, and we already know that this project had little-to-no such war chest from the start, hence a lot of the non-marketing-related core issues that this project suffered. It's time for everyone associated to move on and put this mess behind them. I'm sure the Coleco rights holders will be joining those who already moved on in about a week or so, but why delay the inevitable? Totally agree with this. When I sent Coleco a tweet I was basically saying, you need to get MK out of this project for any future plans cause it really doesn't matter anymore what you find. He tried to slink\band aid or cheat his way past two crowdfunding projects which is very serious. Very serious when your asking for regular people to invest in your project. I for one will always remember the inept magazine launch and from that point knew I wouldn't go near any more of his projects until after someone else paid for it. Quite simply you lose customers\investors by doing things like this and they are very reluctant to go back. Its just basic business that happens in every day life. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Patrick Scott Patterson, formerly of RETRO Magazine: Patrick Scott Patterson Some fair questions asked of me regarding my announcement yesterday. I tried to keep it short - as I'm often knocked when I'm long winded and detailed - yet keeping it short seemed to create more questions. The internet is funny that way. No, the timing of my decision to resign from RETRO Magazine is not coincidental. No, I know nothing more about the Coleco Chameleon project than any of you do. I was not involved directly and to the best of my knowledge neither was the majority of the magazine staff. I was told the same things and have seen the same things as everyone else.I don't care to say anything more than that, nor do I see the need. Going into things further often gives people the false impression that I hold ill will toward people. I hold no ill will toward Mike, who has always been good to me and I'm grateful for him having me as part of the magazine from day one. I hold no ill will toward anyone.This is a business decision, not a personal one. I am incredibly choosy who I do business with and if or when I make a business split it is because I'm not comfortable with how those people are conducting business at that time. All I care to say on the matter. I'd rather focus on the many other outlets I work with and the many other projects I have going on behind the scenes. I closed this door so I wouldn't be distracted, so please leave it be for now. Perhaps I'll revisit the topic some other time once all the smoke has finally cleared. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Good for PSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benheck Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The results from the "independent engineer" will be that both the SNES2 and DVR card were very well designed 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 According to Pipercub revelation wrt to the time Mike's retro-console idea was just a souped up Genesis, Mike already started transferring IP around various companies, letting the others behind with excuses like "I do not have enough stocks to share" or something along those lines. Pipercub even listed 3 entities registered for the purpose. He may NOT have deceived any customer at that stage but he surely deceived its various teams. If I understood what Pipercub said I believe he went thorugh, used and burned a few teams even before the first RVGS run of the mill. John was allegedly number 3 of 4 in the list already. And he made well sure the old team had little to no recourse on his action via transferring IPs around letting the old friends owning a whole lot of nothing. So I am not sure as to when you thought Mike was "little girl" clean, but for the past year (since the RVGS was announced) he's done nothing but lie and cheat both publicly and behind the back of his team mates. I think wrt to the current situation Bill summed it up so eloquently that is worth rereading multiple times. Repeat with me!!! I honestly really didn't pay too much attention to the whole RVGS fiasco. Maybe he didn't go into this second 'console' with good intentions, I'm not privy to what happened behind the scenes. I'm only a casual observer in this whole thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Yes, for everyone saying that no money was taken, no fraud was committed, etc., you may wish to read about the stock shell game that Pipercub clued us into. This goes deeper than just a dude with a dream sticking something vaguely computery in a clear case to buy time. I'm also a bit sick of hearing about the alleged "witch hunt;" again, CollectorVision and Gamester81 were both white knighting this mess in various forms in an aggressive fashion, in CV's case, as recently as the day before the Kickstarter. I think CollectorVision came here with an extremely sincere apology and realization that they shouldn't be fighting someone else's battle. Gamester81... I dunno. You've one apology in one place and a non apology elsewhere. To me, that tells me everything I need to know... Much like when I directly asked Mike here about misleading people with the COLECO branding and he shrugged it off... which led into him getting into it with Triverse... everything I needed to know was right there for me. Your mileage may vary. I think Keetah said it many pages back; if anything, this whole debacle should be a lesson in critical thinking. Just because there's a dude you like on YouTube doesn't mean you shouldn't take things they say with a grain of salt. Always think critically and don't buy into hype. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Lord of the Carts, Part 1: Socal's Folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Nick Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Intent is really irrelevant at this point. The facts are that the last two prototypes were unequivocally proven fraudulent. So whether it was an intentional deception or an extraordinarily unlikely unintentional deception, as in Mike somehow not having enough of a basic technical/logical understanding to know the difference between a mass manufactured board and a one-off prototype board, it's clear that no one there is equipped either morally or technologically to see this project through to completion. The Coleco rights holders giving 7 days for Mike and team to turn in a working prototype is also irrelevant. Even if that were somehow magically delivered, the project is still irrevocably lost to a PR nightmare. You don't experience multiple public failures, deceptions, mismanagement, and poor communication and get infinite re-do's without a massive financial war chest, and we already know that this project had little-to-no such war chest from the start, hence a lot of the non-marketing-related core issues that this project suffered. It's time for everyone associated to move on and put this mess behind them. I'm sure the Coleco rights holders will be joining those who already moved on in about a week or so, but why delay the inevitable? This, this, this. It no longer matters how much of a star crossed dreamer Mike started out as. The earliest paperwork for this project was all filed in the cover of night, and covered in lies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE35 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The results from the "independent engineer" will be that both the SNES2 and DVR card were very well designed It might be wrong of me, but I am wary of the marketing guys and the guys that just add their name to something. Especially in this hobby, where I so often has the option of 'rooting' for the actual guy that is making the stuff. Like Kevtris, who seem to be a very direct person, and also Ben Heck. When Ben Heck started making his pinball machine, I had zero doubt that it was going to be made. It was never going to be a scam. That's the guys I would support. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Agreed. I've seen this happen several times in other classic gaming/computing communities. The problem is is that a lot of people have enthusiasm and good intentions but very few have the talent to pull things off. Think of the talented people that do start projects, but real life such as family issues, health, employment change, etc increases the time line. I am not going to defend many of Mike's actions, but I would not be surprised if it started with good intentions. One really has to speed read this thread.... This thread was started in 12/25/2015, and as I am typing this, it was at 203 pages. I am not sure what the longest thread is, but the Thrifts find thread was started on 12/24/2002, and it did not reach 203 pages until 11/26/2007. Interesting to see a 99 cent MegaMan cart and $10 CIB SNES being found then.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some_canuck Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 SQL error oh no, we're coming apart at the seams! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Sorry for the site going down for a few minutes there. Hosting company was making some changes to the server (at my request), but I was not expecting them to reboot the damn thing in the middle of the day. Then the database server did not start up automatically (which is what they were working on), so I had to go login and kick it off. Anyway, should be good now. ..Al 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE35 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Sorry for the site going down for a few minutes there. Hosting company was making some changes to the server (at my request), but I was not expecting them to reboot the damn thing in the middle of the day. Then the database server did not start up automatically (which is what they were working on), so I had to go login and kick it off. Anyway, should be good now. ..Al I panicked for a moment there!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I panicked for a moment there!! So did I! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 So did I!I almost thought I got a day off my addiction! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I figured Al's "server" (laptop) briefly lost connection as he fled to the Cayman Islands to drink Mai Tais on a beach with his phat subscribers' money. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Just because there's a dude you like on YouTube doesn't mean you shouldn't take things they say with a grain of salt. Always think critically and don't buy into hype. I'm naturally skeptical of anyone that does YouTube for money either through monetization, Patreon or anything else. e.g. a YouTuber reviewing the latest and greatest homebrew while in bed with the publisher. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Azial Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The Coleco rights holders giving 7 days for Mike and team to turn in a working prototype is also irrelevant. Even if that were somehow magically delivered, the project is still irrevocably lost to a PR nightmare. You don't experience multiple public failures, deceptions, mismanagement, and poor communication and get infinite re-do's without a massive financial war chest, and we already know that this project had little-to-no such war chest from the start, hence a lot of the non-marketing-related core issues that this project suffered. I am going to cut this down to this right here. I started as a lurker here on AA with CUpodcast last year with some scumbag of the weeks (the river cart Australian thing and have never left) this has finally made me decide to stay and even expand my library now into the 2600 and 5200 the only consoles I don't have.... (which I will be haunting forums researching info on now thanks to you guys).. Anyway.. This is the key point above. He doesn't have the MONEY to recover. The reason he did this was money. He didn't have it for the Toy faire, he didn't have it to make the proto in time, while I am probably sure there is one of some sort, it's no-where near complete if at all. Now he can't drag it out he had to deceive. What he should have done was the honorable thing, he should have stopped. She should have delayed. He should have been honest. Development time is taking longer, we want to do this correctly, this is what we are struggling with.. This is what the prototype looks like, this is what we can't get to work, and what we need more time with and more funds for.. PEople are much more likely to spend money when they know what it's FOR.. Not Retroland. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janus Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Lord of the Carts, Part 1: Socal's Folly. Ha ha soooo funny Socal Mike and the Raiders of the Lost Molds Socal Mike and the Temple of RETRO Socal Mike and the no need for Last Kickstarter Socal Mike Kingdom of the Crystal Case and then... Socal Mike Swimming in a Lake of Money Just wait and see. Hopefully when everything is properly vetted, you guys will change your tunes and support this awesome product and the games on the system and give it a fair shake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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