Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[phoenixdownita]

....

Mike Kennedy even said it in a couple interviews and podcasts. He claimed that he wasn't trying to cash in on "retro" any more than Yacht Club does with Shovel Knight. Mike just wanted to sell nostalgia back to people in cartridge form on his platform.

I just recently found out (like yesterday) that Amazon Fire TV Game Edition ships with "pack-in" game Shovel Knight.

That's a hell of a score if you ask me, Amazon can easily circulate a few millions if needs be .... but at least a few hundreds of thousands.

I do not know when they started the bundle maybe Mike got inspired and came back with a vengeance.

If even Amazon bundles a retro style game -> $$$$

[phoenixdownita]

 

I think "assisting in the design" overstates things a bit, he took an existing design and replicated it a few years later- as several other people have done. He claims to have refined it a bit, but that could be as simple as tweaking the resistor values to give more accurate colours.

Hey , that was in Woita profile, go get your line

[Great Hierophant]

From earlier in this thread, there was talk about how Mike wanted the magazine and GameGavel to benefit "at arm's length" from the Chameleon project, but it's looking more like the fallout over the Chameleon is destroying these other ventures. On the RGR forums, UKMike mentioned that the magazine's website hasn't been updated since October, and I couldn't help but notice that the most recent article is by David Giltinan, their most recent high-profile departure. With all the trouble they're already having releasing issues on time, the last thing they need is to replace senior staff. GameGavel is also showing signs of neglect (lots of broken images, etc).

 

The MK Empire begins to fall apart. People have complained that the Retro Magazine has published issues tardy, notable writers have been turned off, the quality of the print version is like a fanzine and now the editorial staff seems to have jumped ship. People complain that Game Gavel has very little interesting to bid on because sellers can get better prices for their goods on eBay. Is the Coleco Chameleon a last hurrah from a desperate man who has to realize that his other ventures are failing?

[HkryCrkStudio]

If anyone is picturing MK scrambing in a cold sweat right now to put together something to show for the "inspection", I'd bet the Chameleon planned KS campaign goal amount that he's not. In fact, I'd bet that ZERO is happening right now.

[phoenixdownita]

...

Meh honestly, Mike could have been behind of it all or he could have been taken advantage; there is a 100% chance of both of those things happened.

...

Yeah we still can't figure out how much is foul play and how much is incompetence and I am inclined to agree it's gotta be both.

 

He is just fishing for his "Aha!" moment, but those hardly come by when you tell the truth.

No fishing I promise. I'm really interested into the thought process and aspirations/dreams that went into it and let the beast run afoul.

 

For example CollectorVision candidly admitted they got super excited once they were the pack-in game, not so much once the royalties got cut 50%, I believe the RVGS team may have gotten something to get you excited too.

 

I'm curious as to what sales number Mike or whomever you interacted with was flying around? Millions?

 

The higher the payout the more we become tone def to a whole class of signals ..... I should know I've seen me doing exactly that (in a totally different setting).

Not saying that it was the case for you but as I grow older I start to realize that many actions (but not all) are direct result of an emotional status more than carefully planned logic. No matter how much I strive for the second the first always creeps in, the best I can do is to figure out what was at play to at least admit to that much.

 

I don't think you are guilty of anything related to how the hardware was developed (or non developed I should say) etc...

 

By your new info Mr Lee made you chuckle many times over with his over the top antics .... but you let it slide somewhat. Not accusing again, just stating a fact. Surely there was something more pressing than dealing with those.

 

I do not own any company at all, so I know nothing of what is important when dealing with third party etc, let alone how to keep the company alive and possibly strive. But you do.

Aside the obvious, the CC promised to run SNES games and you have the publishing rights for "NOS" SNES games, what did the CC represent for you that for example the old RVGS did not? The other time you sniffed BS pretty early on and shut the door close very soon.

If I may what was different this time? Was it the Coleco name?

[enoofu]

Who makes a game console that is designed to live its life in the closet for 50 years

 

This whole project reeks of non gamer ideas that silly collectors love, including silly colors;

 

Would be entirely different if they just focused on the NG Market as plenty of people would pay decent money for Great hardware emulation of that platform

[PikoInteractive]

 

If there's something to be angry about it's your microphone, Eli -- manufacturer totally threw you under the bus there.

 

 

 

I agree with this, Gateway all in ones have horrible Mics!

[PikoInteractive]

Yeah we still can't figure out how much is foul play and how much is incompetence and I am inclined to agree it's gotta be both.

 

 

No fishing I promise. I'm really interested into the thought process and aspirations/dreams that went into it and let the beast run afoul.

 

For example CollectorVision candidly admitted they got super excited once they were the pack-in game, not so much once the royalties got cut 50%, I believe the RVGS team may have gotten something to get you excited too.

 

I'm curious as to what sales number Mike or whomever you interacted with was flying around? Millions?

 

The higher the payout the more we become tone def to a whole class of signals ..... I should know I've seen me doing exactly that (in a totally different setting).

Not saying that it was the case for you but as I grow older I start to realize that many actions (but not all) are direct result of an emotional status more than carefully planned logic. No matter how much I strive for the second the first always creeps in, the best I can do is to figure out what was at play to at least admit to that much.

 

I don't think you are guilty of anything related to how the hardware was developed (or non developed I should say) etc...

 

By your new info Mr Lee made you chuckle many times over with his over the top antics .... but you let it slide somewhat. Not accusing again, just stating a fact. Surely there was something more pressing than dealing with those.

 

I do not own any company at all, so I know nothing of what is important when dealing with third party etc, let alone how to keep the company alive and possibly strive. But you do.

Aside the obvious, the CC promised to run SNES games you have the right for "NOS" SNES games, what did the CC represent for you that for example the old RVGS did not? The other time you sniffed BS pretty early on and shut the door close very soon.

If I may what was different this time? Was it the Coleco name?

 

 

I made the math, and I pretty much concluded that the only way to make money on this console was to be the pack in game. So when I got Mike's call about it, yeah I got excited. I even threw in games that I would not currently consider for multicarts, to the pack in multicart. All because the minimum amount of units needed to fund were somewhat around 2500 or so; that is a ton of carts (at least for me). So yeah I got excited. However I'm glad I was able to stay cool and greed didn't take over and I offered to give back the pack in spot if my requirements were met. Those requirements were to overall fix a lot of things wrong with how they were handling the project.

 

First time on VGS, as I stated on Sega Nerds (and I even was live here posting when they launched), they wanted games, offered them a list of 30, they picked super noah's and they didn't add it to the indiegogo; They were already failing pretty bad when I was notified that they will finally add our games, which I then refused.

 

Now this time, they had the Coleco name and had slashed the cost by over 50%. That gave me the impressions that they would sort of be successful; as well as the competition was going to be a launch developer, so I felt pressured to be part of it too. Also since they had promised that they were coming back with a proto, I thought they had one already for the CC try, and KS is a much better crowdfunding platform.

 

So it is a little bit of this and a little bit of that. At the end of the days, it was mainly game sales.

Edited March 6, 2016 by PikoInteractive

[BassGuitari]

I saw an issue of RETRO at Barnes & Noble yesterday and thought, "Holy shit, is that *the* RETRO magazine? As in, the RVGS/CC side project? I didn't think that was happening anymore." I flipped it open to the staff/credits page and, sure enough, there was "Mike Kennedy" at the top.

I had a good chuckle to myself, put the magazine back, and continued on my way to check out my reprinted novelization of Alien 3 by Alan Dean Foster. (BTW if you hated the movie, read it. )

I actually thought about purchasing the magazine because I actually thought it looked pretty decent (granted, I didn't really look through it past the first couple of pages, but it at least had the appearance of being well produced and laid out), and that I thought it would make an interesting memento from this whole sordid RVGS/CC affair, considering--aside from the clear Jag shells--this is the only real product we'll ever see from that organization. On the other hand, I can't knowingly support people who have been proven beyond reasonable doubt to be bullshit artists, either.

[phoenixdownita]

...

 

So it is a little bit of this and a little bit of that. At the end of the days, it was mainly game sales.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write the answer to my questions. I'm sorry I got you worked up earlier, it was not the intent although I admit it may have appeared so.

 

Lastly, little piece missing, J-F stated they never got to sign a contract for their games:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/247145-coleco-chameleon-hardware-speculations/page-234?do=findComment&comment=3460039

 

Were you more lucky than them and got to sign one or even in your case it was all "gentlemen agreement"?

[Eltigro]

If anyone is picturing MK scrambing in a cold sweat right now to put together something to show for the "inspection", I'd bet the Chameleon planned KS campaign goal amount that he's not. In fact, I'd bet that ZERO is happening right now.

I kinda picture him sitting at home in his underwear, unshaven, empty chinese take out boxes littering his desk, while he scowls at a computer screen, slowly scrolling down this thread, writing down user names...

[StoneAgeGamer]

I do not own any company at all, so I know nothing of what is important when dealing with third party etc, let alone how to keep the company alive and possibly strive. But you do.

Aside the obvious, the CC promised to run SNES games you have the right for "NOS" SNES games, what did the CC represent for you that for example the old RVGS did not? The other time you sniffed BS pretty early on and shut the door close very soon.

If I may what was different this time? Was it the Coleco name?

 

I understand what you are getting at. I listened to the Eli interview and it was very interesting. I can't speak for Eli, nor do I wish to. I do not know how much business experience he has had before Piko, but I stated in a previous post in this thread that I could have totally seen myself getting caught up into something like this early in Stone Age Gamer's life (over 9 years ago). When you have a small fledgling business and you are inexperienced you are much more likely to be overzealous about stuff like this. I felt this constant fear that I may be missing out on something big so sometimes I spent my time and money on stuff that (hindsight being 20-20) was really a terrible idea. I still have this fear, but now that I am more experienced have the business has gotten to a point where its completely self sufficient I can take a break and look at opportunities a lot more critically. I also don't run the day-to-day of SAG anymore, I haven't for over 2 years now. I mainly only handle the higher up decisions, books, and other business dealings. This also gives me a better perspective on some things that I never really saw when I was doing the day-to-day grind.

 

That's just my 2 cents, I am not saying any of this really applies to anyone else but myself. I am not trying to put words in anyone's mouth.

[fultonbot]

Mike Kennedy and Steve Woita are how old? Retro gaming to them, should be the Atari VCS, Intellavision, Odyssey 2, Colecovision, etc - that kind of 8 bit gaming.

 

Steve Woita was involved in making NES and Genesis games as well as Atari VCS, PS1 and PS2 games, so you really can't nail down his "retro era" to any one console life-cycle.

Here is his bio. https://stevewoita.wordpress.com/games/

Edited March 6, 2016 by fultonbot

[TheRevWells]

First of all, long time lurker and first time poster. Joined the forum due to this CC fiasco, but after looking around the site, I will be staying due to the community that is here and it does seem that many are older, as I am, and that is awesome. Been on different forums such as these and they are far from professional as AA is and thanks to everyone who actually created this - its awesome. My gaming life started with C64 back in the day, parents bought one when they came out and to this day I love it.

 

With that said, I have an observation about this fiasco. What is stopping Coleco from getting rid of Mike, partnering with Atgames and do a new flashback console - Colecovision - that accepts carts. Just how the Atgames Sega Genesis ones do, I do wonder if that would be something that they would do to try and come out on top from this fiasco.

 

Thoughts?

 

TheRevWells

[jaybird3rd]

With that said, I have an observation about this fiasco. What is stopping Coleco from getting rid of Mike, partnering with Atgames and do a new flashback console - Colecovision - that accepts carts. Just how the Atgames Sega Genesis ones do, I do wonder if that would be something that they would do to try and come out on top from this fiasco.

Welcome!

 

We don't know the details of the contract between Coleco and Mike, but as I and others have said before, this business of the inspection and the seven-day grace period seems like a formality that Coleco simply has to get out of the way in order to end the partnership. Reading between the lines of their public statements, it seems clear (at least to me) that they've been stung by the public backlash and are in no mood to go easy on Mike.

 

As for a new ColecoVision Flashback with a cartridge slot ... I suppose that's possible, but it would depend on the emulation platform that AtGames uses in their Flashback consoles. Companies like AtGames have seemed reluctant to add cartridge slots to their retro systems, perhaps because it's an added expense that most people would never use, or because using broken or unusual cartridges would lead to more support calls. I understand that their Genesis console uses real Genesis hardware (although there were inaccuracies in the sound), so making a cartridge slot work with an emulator wasn't a concern with that system.

[+madman]

First of all, long time lurker and first time poster. Joined the forum due to this CC fiasco, but after looking around the site, I will be staying due to the community that is here and it does seem that many are older, as I am, and that is awesome. Been on different forums such as these and they are far from professional as AA is and thanks to everyone who actually created this - its awesome. My gaming life started with C64 back in the day, parents bought one when they came out and to this day I love it.

 

With that said, I have an observation about this fiasco. What is stopping Coleco from getting rid of Mike, partnering with Atgames and do a new flashback console - Colecovision - that accepts carts. Just how the Atgames Sega Genesis ones do, I do wonder if that would be something that they would do to try and come out on top from this fiasco.

 

Thoughts?

 

TheRevWells

Welcome aboard, this is the best site for all things retro gaming. As for a Coleco Flashback that accepts carts, I don't see mass appeal for that. The Colecovision had something like 125-150 games, any hardcore fan already has the original console and carts. A casual gamer might find maybe 30-40 of those games still fun in 2016. Whereas the Genesis had probably 6 times as many games with carts that can still found readily found at used games stores, thrift stores, etc. and aren't as dated. That's just IMO of course.

[phoenixdownita]

...

 

With that said, I have an observation about this fiasco. What is stopping Coleco from getting rid of Mike, partnering with Atgames and do a new flashback console - Colecovision - that accepts carts. Just how the Atgames Sega Genesis ones do, I do wonder if that would be something that they would do to try and come out on top from this fiasco.

 

Thoughts?

 

TheRevWells

Afaik the first Coleco Flashback did not sell well as it was marred with issues, look up Bill Loguidice in the forums he can tell you a whole lot more about what went wrong and such, absence of a cart slot was not among the top issues. He's in touch with AtGames so he is in a better position to answer to any rumors.

[TheRevWells]

Welcome!

 

We don't know the details of the contract between Coleco and Mike, but as I and others have said before, this business of the inspection and the seven-day grace period seems like a formality that Coleco simply has to get out of the way in order to end the partnership. Reading between the lines of their public statements, it seems clear (at least to me) that they've been stung by the public backlash and are in no mood to go easy on Mike.

 

As for a new ColecoVision Flashback with a cartridge slot ... I suppose that's possible, but it would depend on the emulation platform that AtGames uses in their Flashback consoles. Companies like AtGames have seemed reluctant to add cartridge slots to their retro systems, perhaps because it's an added expense that most people would never use, or because using broken or unusual cartridges would lead to more support calls.

 

Thanks for the welcome! For anyone that was involved in this - from making games for it, game blog writers, etc, I cannot imagine how they must feel at this point. Some are attempting to distance themselves away, which I understand and would do if I was in the same boat, and there are some that are like, even though we were contacted to make games, people know our reputation's and the quality of the products we bring to the table, etc, those are the companies that should be getting people's business from this fiasco. Not really new to retro games etc, grew up with C64 and still love to play the games for it....there are a TON, but this whole retro push, as I have seen from people on YouTube etc - those people crack me up.

 

But, anyways, yeah. I have one of the Atgames Sega Genesis plug and play consoles and while they have a ton of crap on there, there are some gems as well and found a store in my area that has a ton of carts, older systems, etc. Went there the other day and should of picked up the SNES I saw for 30 they had in the box etc. For anyone who lives in Lansing, Michigan, as I do or in the area, The Swap Meet is a nice place to check out

[TheRevWells]

Afaik the first Coleco Flashback did not sell well as it was marred with issues, look up Bill Loguidice in the forums he can tell you a whole lot more about what went wrong and such, absence of a cart slot was not among the top issues. He's in touch with AtGames so he is in a better position to answer to any rumors.

 

Cool and thanks. Ill be doing that. I have always wondered why the Genesis one has it but not the others, but oh well, back to the fiasco in 3....2....1

 

EDIT: Is there a Commodore 64 section here on this site? I did not see one, but then again, at 39 yrs old, my vision could be going. If there is one - YES and if not - Why not!

 

Thanks again to everyone for all the welcomes

Edited March 6, 2016 by TheRevWells

[phoenixdownita]

...

EDIT: Is there a Commodore 64 section here on this site? I did not see one, but then again, at 39 yrs old, my vision could be going. If there is one - YES and if not - Why not!

....

http://atariage.com/forums/forum/172-commodore-8-bit-computers/

 

You do realize it is called AtariAge, don't you?

[atm94404]

Afaik the first Coleco Flashback did not sell well as it was marred with issues, look up Bill Loguidice in the forums he can tell you a whole lot more about what went wrong and such, absence of a cart slot was not among the top issues. He's in touch with AtGames so he is in a better position to answer to any rumors.

 

Any fixes to any issues with the Colecovision Flashback are going to have to be initiated by AtGames. I just got done listening to the Colecovisions podcast with Chris Cardillo. In addition to being not overly concerned with what was going down with the CC until after the Toy Fair was over (but he LOVED how much traffic it brought to their booth), he was completely unaware of any issues users had with the current Flashback. Wrong pinouts, too short controller sticks, buttons that pinch fingers, overlays not being interchangeable with real overlays? All news to him. And this is the guy whose job it is to steer the Coleco brand. He even invokes "I'm not a hardware guy. I'm not a software guy". His answer to "what happened with CC being a SNES Jr." is the most rambling, stuttering (I'm not making fun of a speech impediment, just noting he didn't stutter in the preceding half-hour of talking about Coleco) non-answer to a question I've heard in my life. At one point he even asks the listeners if anyone knows how to contact someone at Mattel about getting a Masters of the Universe license for a Colecovision prototype. Excuse me? Wouldn't that be YOUR job, Chris? It's not like Mattel is some unknown company that went out of business decades ago. Heck, there was Mattel booth full of Mattel contact people at the fair you were just at! Any hope I had for the Coleco brand has vanished.

[TheRevWells]

http://atariage.com/forums/forum/172-commodore-8-bit-computers/

 

You do realize it is called AtariAge, don't you?

 

Thanks for the link to the thread. See, even my wife calls me blind and a bit slow and I tend to her agree with her

 

Thanks again!!!

Edited March 6, 2016 by TheRevWells

[TheRevWells]

Kinda off topic, but to the one defender on YouTube in regards to the CC, I do wonder if he will make another video about it and still attempt to defend it. Not sure if I can post links to YouTube videos or not, since I am a new member, but his name on YouTube is PartyGameNetwork and the videos are so cringe worthy. Ive wondered if he has come over here and tried to defend it. Even out of this fiasco, at least for me, some amazing things came out - got to learn about Piko Interactive and the projects they have done and are a part of. Eli seems like a great guy and if I had the cash, I would buy some of his products and he loves action figures as well as me. Got a nice collection of some older ones and looking to get rid of them because I got a bit too many, so Eli, message me if you want and I can send pictures to you and yes, they are all in the package. Got to learn about a new blog, at least for me from Triverse - great stuff and loved the interview with John Carlsen.

Edited March 6, 2016 by TheRevWells

[sh3-rg]

"Cornering the Market on RETRO gaming"

 

Ewww... he actually wrote that on his linkedin?

 

Ewwwww!

 

Those requirements were to overall fix a lot of things wrong with how they were handling the project.

 

Top negotiating that was, and those requirements were the sort of stuff he should have been paying a troubleshooter serious coin for (not that he wanted to hear it of course). Anyway, I'm sure it had the desired effect on MK (i.e. he needed to go grab a cold, luxury on-campus shower).

[MagnaRyuu]

Kinda off topic, but to the one defender on YouTube in regards to the CC, I do wonder if he will make another video about it and still attempt to defend it. Not sure if I can post links to YouTube videos or not, since I am a new member, but his name on YouTube is PartyGameNetwork and the videos are so cringe worthy. Ive wondered if he has come over here and tried to defend it. Even out of this fiasco, at least for me, some amazing things came out - got to learn about Piko Interactive and the projects they have done and are a part of. Eli seems like a great guy and if I had the cash, I would buy some of his products and he loves action figures as well as me. Got a nice collection of some older ones and looking to get rid of them because I got a bit too many, so Eli, message me if you want and I can send pictures to you and yes, they are all in the package. Got to learn about a new blog, at least for me from Triverse - great stuff and loved the interview with John Carlsen.

Dude has gotta be a POE