Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[toiletunes]

Speculation:

If what we were told was true (ha ha) "Lee" has a fully working SNES FPGA, and who remembers what else. Coleco is out, and the MK name is mud. Would 'Lee' go it alone? Probably not, if he doesn't have a good shell. Nonetheless, I'd keep your eyes open for a Leeviathan.

[+Gemintronic]

They should have said "EFF it" and stuffed a fly-by-night technologies Android dongle in there. You'd end up with a Retron 5 that you could restrict to *just* run your carts. The corporate types would've jumped for joy.

[CGQuarterly]

I just watched SD&R's last couple of videos, and thought that they were both excellent. Just wanted to say that publicly, since I got on his case earlier in the thread.

[Benheck]

 

I disagree. Despite the many inherent disadvantages of a medium born in the 1970's, Nintendo has the prowess and know-how to make it work. I don't believe Nintendo would play the nostalgia card here. They could play the instant-load feature.

 

IDK.. carts go against what modern game companies want. They want control of the game and its license and the ability to take it away from you by shutting off a server. And unfortunately, as I understand it, some material has a finite license length. After x amount of years it expires - turn the server off.

 

Turn the server off to encourage and prod people into buying new games. Can't really do that with cartridges, unless you start authenticating them. Then we're right back to DL only or the current disc-based mess.

 

And finally, companies are NOT concerned about the longevity of your personal library or collection. The burden to preserve is 100% on you.

 

Nintendo would want carts so they can handle all the manufacturing themselves and use that as profit center (secret reason they clung to carts for so long)

 

Also, retailers like game SKU's on the shelves because they don't get a % when a game console is all digital downloads. It's one reason Apple prices are higher, more margin for retailer to make up for this

[Andromeda Stardust]

Thread now has 7000+ posts...

[galax]

"Cornering the Market on RETRO Gaming"

 

Mike's Linkedin subheading now says "Celebrating the History of Video-Games" (with the hyphen).

[Keatah]

He's out there.. [ominous music playing in the background]

[triverse]

 

Mike's Linkedin subheading now says "Celebrating the History of Video-Games" (with the hyphen).

I changed mine to "Investigative gaming journalist"

 

Considering the subheading change, who wants to bet he will try and capitalize on the "history" books on gaming that are popular right now?

[StopDrop&Retro]

I just watched SD&R's last couple of videos, and thought that they were both excellent. Just wanted to say that piblicly, since I got on his case earlier in the thread.

 

Thank you! I appreciate that! When I cover something like this I try to do some research and find a unique angle. And when that fails, I just try to provide dumb entertainment.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed my videos, I am subscribed to your channel and I absolutely love your system launch stories!

[Dissident Aggressor]

So the epilogue now is... What happens to the Jaguar molds? They've got to be useless to Mike right now.

[jaybird3rd]

So the epilogue now is... What happens to the Jaguar molds? They've got to be useless to Mike right now.

I'd love to see them go to StoneAgeGamer, Piko, or someone else who can make constructive use of them and make Jag cartridge shells available to homebrewers.

[Schizophretard]

I put quotes around Mike's job title and "Michael Jackson"??? REALLY???

 

 

[Skullmeat]

At the risk of having my head bitten off, now that this is all said and done, I'll put in my two cents.

The Coleco Chameleon had all the hallmarks of a scam.

1. The Retro VGS
Let's be honest. $300 for a system that is essentially a Retron system in a Jaguar case? The Retron 5 cost around $150, has HD, plays loads of games, and uses an emulator. (Similar to the FPGA/ARM ideas the prototypes talked about.)

2. Indiegogo Goal

Sure, making hardware isn't cheap, but $2,000,000? Without a working prototype? That's a larger budget for most TV shows, and considering that the system is already using existing tech, this is excessive.

3. Constantly changing hardware
FPGA to ARM to emulation, to various other methods. This is usually a sign that the developer has very little engineering knowledge. You can't just go out and build a game console like a jigsaw puzzle.

4. The name change
Getting the rights the slap the Coleco brand on it was a red flag, considering the previous history of the project. RetroVGS was fine, and a much more apt name. Putting a nostalgic name on a modern console, that really is just a fancy emulator box, is just nostalgia bait designed to make the project seem official, and get you to part with your cash.

5. Fake Prototypes
Not one, but two fake prototypes, the second of which was meant to renew consumer faith in a project already doomed. Retro collectors are sharp eyed, dedicated, and immensely faithful to their favorite systems and games. If you get caught in a lie, trying to lie to these kinds of people again is incredibly foolish and short sighted, unless you have something to hide.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Skullmeat

[MotoRacer]

He'll keep him. Selling them would show weakness. He's too proud to do that.

 

The only way we'll see him sell the molds is if he's literally homeless and is in desperate need of cash.

[phoenixdownita]

Anyone knows if Game Escape is making the last episode of his videos?

 

Nostalgia N.O. SH-IT (No Offense)

Nostalgia D.E.E.P. SH-IT (Design, Economics, Environmental, Planning)

Nostalgia SH-IT T.I.E.R. (Technical Independent Evaluation Report)

....

....

 

EDIT: added bacronyms

[+Random Terrain]

 

 

I can't eat popcorn to it or read it. Enlarging the image produces a fuzzy unreadable mess. I wonder why it's so small (180 × 145)?

[Keatah]

[..]

4. The name change

Getting the rights the slap the Coleco brand on it was a red flag, considering the previous history of the project. RetroVGS was fine, and a much more apt name. Putting a nostalgic name on a modern console, that really is just a fancy emulator box, is just nostalgia bait designed to make the project seem official, and get you to part with your cash.

 

To me there can only be one Coleco videogame, and that would be the Colecovision. Man, I'ma tell'n'ya.. When I got that console I felt as if I had arrived. I was THE shit! My home arcade was in full swing.

 

 

5. Fake Prototypes

Not one, but two fake prototypes, the second of which was meant to renew consumer faith in a project already doomed. Retro collectors are sharp eyed, dedicated, and immensely faithful to their favorite systems and games. If you get caught in a lie, trying to lie to these kinds of people again is incredibly foolish, and short sighted, unless you have something to hide.

 

I believe the fake protos were a way to fasttrack past development and get right to funding. THEN develop something later. Failing that, fall back on development board or something like an R-Pi.

[Skullmeat]

 

To me there can only be one Coleco videogame, and that would be the Colecovision. Man, I'ma tell'n'ya.. When I got that console I felt as if I had arrived. I was THE shit! My home arcade was in full swing.

 

 

 

I believe the fake protos were a way to fasttrack past development and get right to funding. THEN develop something later. Failing that, fall back on development board or something like an R-Pi.

Oh believe me, I love my colecovision. It also serves as my Atari 2600 right now. Fake prototypes to fast track funding is still sketchy.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Skullmeat

[bretthorror]

 

As a tiny sidenote, I clicked a 4500 sub contest video of that RetroGamingTube85 guy and he thanks Gamester81 for featuring him on his website and attributes that for giving him a big head start on YouTube.

 

I speculate that this is why it took him so long to really blast the Chameleon despite giving it a lot of coverage.

[pxlsicle]

I'll take that offered sandwhich!

I'm of the belief that a good sandwich is one of life's great pleasures. If you're ever in San Diego I know all the good delis =D

 

That's way off topic! Sorry! Let me try to save it:

 

So, what really bothers me about this whole Chameleon thing is... Shit. Never mind. Its all been said.

 

 

[phoenixdownita]

 

To me there can only be one Coleco videogame, and that would be the Colecovision. Man, I'ma tell'n'ya.. When I got that console I felt as if I had arrived. I was THE shit! My home arcade was in full swing.

 

With the gift of hindsight the CV was literally just off the shelf components thrown together .... a Z80, a TMS9928 + VRAM, RAM and SN76489A PSG.

They were great to assemble it that way as up to that point successful consoles had some custom chips (usually video and or audio).

The Sega SG-1000 has the exact same spec (different mem map). Add more RAM & exchange the SN76489A PSG for an AY-3-8910 and you get yourself SVI-318/328 and obviously an MSX.

 

Outside the CV all other successful consoles before or after used NOT off the shelf components, but custom ones, NES and SNES had even custom CPUs based off 6502/65816, while the Sega offering sported its own custom evolution of the video unit TMS9928 in the SMS and even more evolved in the Genesis in which back compat with TMS9928 was dropped.

The 32bits gen was all custom chips (usually just the CPU was either std or slightly modified) and so on, all the way until the current gen (well the XBox original as well) in which we have a slightly modified/customized PC [x64 or x86 for the original XBox] so in a way almost off the shelf components (well you go to the "CPU store" and get a few cores and to the "GPU store" and get some gfx cores etc....)

 

My point is that the prowess of the CV ended up being the fact that it used the TMS9928 which gave it an edge in the gfx dept as the chip was quite evolved for the time.

I have never really know who actually designed the CV. Apparently a popular design (Z80 + TMS9928) right around that time time-frame.

We know the TMS9928 evolved later on in the Yamaha V9938 and then V9958, but that is another story.

[jaybird3rd]

So, what really bothers me about this whole Chameleon thing is... Shit. Never mind. Its all been said.

I still hope we're able to find out who this elusive "Mr. Lee" is/was. I've said before that I almost hope we don't find out, because the theories are probably more fun than the reality. But now that the project is effectively dead, I don't see any reason for anyone involved to keep his identity secret. Unmask this International Man of Mystery!

[savantskie]

 

The lol is they basically reproduced my Zimba 3000 design based on the discussions I had with them, and added the SoC later on to it. I think all those little parts were to handle all the crap the DB9 controller ports were going to add; like reading the pots for paddles and stuff. IMO all that crap should've been done using some kind of microcontroller vs. the huge fleet of chips they chose. During discussions, I told them to drop DB9 support since it was going to add a lot to the cost and just make them optional USB plug in devices and mike poopooed the idea. Citing that he didn't want people to have to "pay extra" for that feature, and I told him that you're just going to subsidize the 1 person that will use it for the other 20 that won't. Still it didn't sway him.

 

As for the trapezoid shape, it's a stupid shape for routing a PCB. PCBs generally use traces at 45 degree angles, so if you're going to make it that shape it has to be 45 degree angles on the sides of the trapezoid. Otherwise, routing near the edges will be a HUGE pain in the ass. Routing round PCBs is a similar pain in the ass too because the routes won't neatly pack near the edges without a lot of work. I am guessing he never routed anything because I suspect he would've dumped that board shape ASAP and made it rectangular. There certainly was room in the case for it.

 

They used altium by the looks of it btw. (same software I use)

I am in no way familiar with PCB design. I am in no way an artist. But to me what this looks like, is just them trying to make the back of the pcb look ''closer'' to the viewer. It looks like just a weird camera angle to ''elongate'' the PCB.

 

Yknow how when you were a kid, and used to try and draw a big house? So you'd draw the farther away part of the house smaller than the front?

 

I may be stupid, and totally seeing it wrong, but that is what it looks like to me.

[pxlsicle]

I still hope we're able to find out who this elusive "Mr. Lee" is/was. I've said before that I almost hope we don't find out, because the theories are probably more fun than the reality. But now that the project is effectively dead, I don't see any reason for anyone involved to keep his identity secret. Unmask this International Man of Mystery!

There's a quote attributed to someone from Factory Records (I'm really embarrassed I can't remember who) around the end of Joy Division/start of New Order era that basically states "if you have the choice to live the truth or live the legend... take the legend". it's not entirely applicable here but I think of it because I'd rather have the legend of Mr. Lee than finding out the boring ol' truth. We have plenty of insane nonsense from this ordeal to give us chuckles for a lifetime.

 

Why else would I rather have the legend? In my mind Mr. Lee is Lin from Bloodsport in a total bullshit "hacker" den like the one in Kung Fury. (I brainfarted and thought Lin's name was Li. That is also embarrassing because I have, no joke, watched Bloodsport over a hundred times. Easy.)

[wf_]

I am in no way familiar with PCB design. I am in no way an artist. But to me what this looks like, is just them trying to make the back of the pcb look ''closer'' to the viewer. It looks like just a weird camera angle to ''elongate'' the PCB.

 

Yknow how when you were a kid, and used to try and draw a big house? So you'd draw the farther away part of the house smaller than the front?

 

I may be stupid, and totally seeing it wrong, but that is what it looks like to me.

 

Look at the chips on the board. They're all laid out orthogonally, so the edges of all the rectangular chips show "true" horizontal and vertical directions. The edges of the board don't line up with them. The board is trapezoidal.

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by wf_