Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[goldenegg]

I'm totally jumping the gun.

 

Maybe at the Fair Mike is telling people they didn't make it in time with their prototype so they are just showing which kind of games they are targeting to support ... or NOT.

 

 

I doubt he's saying anything different than what was posted on FB this morning

 

 

 

We are using aftermarket SNES controllers because the proto controller many of the options (Analog sticks) aren't working with these games at this time. It's easier to demo at this stage with the SNES controllers. The controller cables are currently hard wired into the prototype.

[Flojomojo]

 

And it's not just that. The geometry of the components is also the exact same. The Position of every single component that can be seen matches the Position it is on an SNES Jr. Every single Piece of evidence Points to this being an SNES Jr. Everything matches.

That's Nintendo's intellectual property. Representing it as their own seems like business and legal suicide. I wonder if RVGS has checked with them? I haven't reviewed the available material to have an opinion either way, but it sounds like some of you guys might want to tip off the big N so this debacle can stop wasting everyone's time.

 

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[goldenegg]

So now Mike's saying that the 'prototype' is running a custom SNES FPGA core to play the demos.

 

 

 

Eli From Piko Interactive stopped by with one of his boards, plugged in, running both Jim Power and Legend. We are running his games through our custom written SNES FPGA Core. He said they are playing flawlessly.

[jaybird3rd]

We are using aftermarket SNES controllers because the proto controller many of the options (Analog sticks) aren't working with these games at this time.

Wow. That doesn't even read like a sentence originally written in the English language.

 

Does he really expect people to believe that they switched to a completely different controller, with a completely different interface, just because their USB controller's analog sticks aren't working yet with the games? If that's the case, wouldn't it have been easier to just use a different USB controller without analog sticks? Yet another indication that this is nothing but a poorly redressed SNES.

 

Eli From Piko Interactive stopped by with one of his boards, plugged in, running both Jim Power and Legend. We are running his games through our custom written SNES FPGA Core. He said they are playing flawlessly.

Of course the games are playing flawlessly. They're running on the original hardware!

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but if they're really using an FPGA core, wouldn't they have either designed a new board for it or used an off-the-shelf prototyping board? In either case, why does this "new board" just happen to have the exact same layout and edge connector as the SNES Jr.? Wouldn't they have at least tried to design something that properly fit inside the Jaguar shells, so they wouldn't have to hold the whole thing together with gobs of tape? If this is a new design, wouldn't they have chosen a more modern edge connector, one that is still being made and can still be bought in bulk?

 

I'm a rookie when it comes to hardware design, but in the months they've had since the IGG campaign, even I could have laid out a new board that would have fit their shells.

[bretthorror]

I'm hoping this is not a SNES Jr and we're just mistaken, but if not, I am baffled by Mike's decision to lie again about a protoype. If it turns out to be a SNES everything he has said will be proven to be a blatant lie and I don't even know how he can get on KS without a prototype, unless they're still going to make an exception for him like they were going to before? Unless they have an SNES FPGA? Would that be a possibility? Why would they use that weird cable with it, though?

 

At this stage, Mike has to be a lunatic to try to pass this shit off because he knows he's under a microscope and will instantly be gutted. I would be totally embarrassed to be lying to the people like he seems to be doing.

[leods]

They've just posted a Picture with another cartridge inserted. It's a plain SNES game board. Not the sabe as before, as it's clearly smaller.

 

They don't have a flawless custom written SNES core for an FPGA. No wayy they'd have done the whole Hardware and Software for that.

 

edit: This is ridiculous. This makes no sense. They have some genious working there, that can make a flawless FPGA core to Play SNES games, the board just happens to have exactly the same dimentions as an SNES Jr, (that doesn't fit the Shell they're using) but then the same genious guy mist use electric tape to Piece things together and can't wire USB ports or a power led and button?

 

This does it. Mike is lying. Damn me to hell if I'm wrong. I don't care. I don't live in Retro land. This stuff makes o sense. You can Close the Topic.

 

I'll go back to something I said a couple months ago. I seriously question the mental sanity of this guy. He Needs medical Attention.

Edited February 13, 2016 by leods

[RupanIII]

They make it hard to keep a straight face....

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/947612635308007

 

Eli From Piko Interactive stopped by with one of his boards, plugged in, running both Jim Power and Legend. We are running his games through our custom written SNES FPGA Core. He said they are playing flawlessly.

 

[phoenixdownita]

So now Mike's saying that the 'prototype' is running a custom SNES FPGA core to play the demos.

That'll be something finally.

Why did he wait to say it though is extremely suspicious, like last time.

 

So we'll see, for sure 10 days from now we'll see a very very different beast as the KS.

 

Also why going SNES with everything else? Ctrls, AV, cart slot .... an FPGA core needs none of that.

Edited February 13, 2016 by phoenixdownita

[RupanIII]

Yeah, on Kickstarter they will dump the Jaguar case and start using old Colecovision shells in keeping with the tradition of their heritage!

That'll be something finally.
Why did he wait to say it though is extremely suspicious, like last time.

So we'll see, for sure 10 days from now we'll see a very very different beast as the KS.

[panamajoe]

That'll be something finally.

Why did he wait to say it though is extremely suspicious, like last time.

 

So we'll see, for sure 10 days from now we'll see a very very different beast as the KS.

 

Yes, let`s wait and see... maybe they actually have something. I´m doubtful, but who knows...

[galax]

(But then again, we're just hating haters, dragging other peoples' good names through the mud, because we're all filled with hatred and hate.)

Although I've enjoyed a lot of this and the othrt thread I thought some of it to be a bit mean spirited and nasty. I've been willing them to succeed at crearing something cool, and Mike & Steve seem like nice enough guys.

 

But when they try it on with stuff like this demo and the Carlsen fake (when they were trying to raise, ~$1.5 million based on hand waving and half truths), I lose sympathy. I just hope StopDrop&Retro has managed to save a copy of the Facebook videos for posterity in case they get deleted..

 

I wonder if the choice of SNES games was made because of the SNES mini's convenient small sized PCB with the cart slot at the back. Perfect for a 'prototype'!

 

In Mike's mind this really might be a valid prototype. The months of development work were all done with hot glue and a Dremel. He's going to find someone to build something pretty mich like a SNES, so a SNES in a Jag case is a valid prototype. SNES controllers = prototype controllers. SNES multicart = pretty much like what they want to do; build a multicart. This prototype is proof that someone somewhere can do it.

[galax]

Does he really expect people to believe that they switched to a completely different controller, with a completely different interface, just because the USB controller's analog sticks aren't working yet with the games? Why not just use another USB controller without analog sticks? Yet another indication that this is nothing but a poorly redressed SNES.

These games wouldn't use the analogue sticks anyway, they'd use the D-pad.

Edited February 13, 2016 by galax

[leods]

The only way at this Point that I'd believe this isn't an SNES Jr is if they post a Video of them opening this Thing righ now and showing what's in there. But they won't do that, because it is an SNES.

[bretthorror]

Just to play devil's advocate here, I guess it could be possible that their system can't do a wireless controller yet? I don't know how this stuff works. The fact that the controller inputs are "hard wired" inside the console seems like a way to mask they do in fact have SNES ports. Why else couldn't they just plug it into a USB interface unless they had something to hide? Is it even feasible any design team would hard wire a controller nowadays, wouldn't that be a waste of time when you can just plug in a USB?

[Keatah]

I feel sorry for the people that will back this or purchase this. I feel sorry for Coleco and the Colecovision name.

[jaybird3rd]

I feel sorry for the people that will back this or purchase this. I feel sorry for Coleco and the Colecovision name.

I feel sorry for the Jaguar molds. I'd rather have seen them continue to be used to make dental cameras. At least that was an honest product that benefited people.

[phoenixdownita]

Let's not forget that there exists already SNES FPGA:

http://pgate1.at-ninja.jp/SNES_on_FPGA/

(I know I am repeating myself)

 

And I believe kevtris could whip a std one (no special chips) relatively easily.

 

So the FPGA core is "believable", but the rest not so much .... no-one would tie itself with the SNES cart connect AND AV cable .... it really makes no sense.

Edited February 13, 2016 by phoenixdownita

[toiletunes]

UPDATE:

I asked SoCal if he put a SNES in a Jag case, here is the video response:

 

[Raticon]

I think the excuse to not use the original Chameleon/Wii U controllers and go for SNES controllers is straight up BS of a hyperbolic magnitude.

 

"No analog stick support."

Then use the D-pad! It has one! We've all seen the pictures of it!

 

The truth, sinister as it might be, is that the plug is standard SNES and as their own controller is USB it wont work. Hence the smoke and mirrors "hardwire" controls, hiding the obvious SNES connector and ports inside.

 

Now i am genuinely pissed off.

[Andromeda Stardust]

UPDATE:

I asked SoCal if he put a SNES in a Jag case, here is the video response:

 

He can't claim ignorance. No excuses will dig him out of this hole he's buried himself in at this point. RetroVGS is done. Chameleon is done. Mike is done. Just pack up the shit from your booth right now and go home.

 

P.S. Called it!

Considering the game shown is an SNES homebrew, and as far as we can tell the Chameleon isn't even turned on (no power LED), so it might be an empty shell, with an SNES or clone system under the table connected to the TV, running Caverns of Death. If they are serious about releasing a console in 2016 and beyond, they had better have HD outputs as an option. Otherwise they will get laughed off the floor.

[elmer]

Let's not forget that there exists already SNES FPGA:

http://pgate1.at-ninja.jp/SNES_on_FPGA/

(I know I am repeating myself)

 

And I believe kevtris could whip a std one (no special chips) relatively easily.

 

So the FPGA core is "believable", but the rest not so much .... no-one would tie itself with the SNES cart connect AND AV cable .... it really makes no sense.

 

AFAIK that's the only core that's known to exist, so far.

 

According to the guy's website it's using around 30,000LE on the DE2-115.

 

The cheapest Cyclone V chip that I can find with > 30,000LE is the Cyclone V E 5CEBA4F17C8N at $50.

 

So, either he's contracted the only guy on the planet with a working SNES-in-an-FPGA, and is willing to pay $50-per-chip for just the FPGA itself in his $150 package, or ...

 

He can use a $9 C.H.I.P., run an emulator, and pocket the change.

 

What are the odds that he'd really choose to go with the FPGA?

Edited February 13, 2016 by elmer

[jaybird3rd]

In Mike's mind this really might be a valid prototype. The months of development work were all done with hot glue and a Dremel. He's going to find someone to build something pretty mich like a SNES, so a SNES in a Jag case is a valid prototype. SNES controllers = prototype controllers. SNES multicart = pretty much like what they want to do; build a multicart. This prototype is proof that someone somewhere can do it.

Well, if that's what he's thinking, I doubt anyone would believe it, and I doubt it would pass muster with Kickstarter, either. Here's what Kickstarter says about prototypes:

 

If your project will involve manufacturing gadgets or other products, we ask that you show as much as you can about how you're going to do that, including things like a production plan, an estimated schedule, and any other details you can provide for backers.

 

Projects that involve the development of physical products must feature explicit demos of working prototypes. While you can run a project focused on the creation of a prototype, you can't offer the product that is under development as a reward.

I take that to mean that the prototype has to include a preliminary version of the actual hardware that you plan to produce, to give the backers a chance to evaluate your design and manufacturing process as well as the chance to see what the finished product will be like.

 

Taking Nintendo's original hardware and putting it in a case doesn't do that. Sure, it can play the same games, but it doesn't demonstrate that Mike and Co. can produce an accurate FPGA core, it doesn't demonstrate that they can manufacture the complete system with the quality that backers will expect, and it doesn't demonstrate that they can deliver it on time and on budget.

 

Anybody with a Dremel tool and a hot glue gun and a roll of tape could have built that "prototype" at Toy Fair. That doesn't mean that they're ready to ask for tens of thousands of dollars (or more!) of funding. Once again, it seems that they're going straight to crowdfunding without having done their due diligence first, and are looking to the backers to assume all of the cost and all of the risk.

[StopDrop&Retro]

 

Who wants to bet this will be a bare PCB or a 3D render or anything other than a working board? Yeah, sure it'll happen before launching the Kickstarter. He can do in 10 days what he hasn't been able to do in 5 months.

[goldenegg]

Another FB update

 

 

 

When the time comes to launch the official Kickstarter for the Coleco Chameleon we will be posting pictures showing the actual PCB that will be used in production for the console. The console will be FPGA and ARM based. It will have HDMI video for sure and possibily composite if we can sort PAL issues, which will happen before launching the Kickstarter.

 

So Mike pretty much confirms that what's being shown at the fair is all smoke and mirrors. It has little in common with the hardware they'll be selling.

[jaybird3rd]

Who wants to bet this will be a bare PCB or a 3D render or anything other than a working board? Yeah, sure it'll happen before launching the Kickstarter. He can do in 10 days what he hasn't been able to do in 5 months.

That's my reaction, too. How are they going to magically have a real FPGA board ready before the Kickstarter campaign when they couldn't get it ready before Toy Fair?

 

Perhaps they'll claim that they already have the board under development but had problems that they couldn't solve before Toy Fair, and that's why they had to butcher an SNES Jr. at the last minute. But if that's the case, why not say so and at least show what they had? Anything would have been better than the secretive, taped-together Frankenstein's Monster they went with.

 

I'm guessing their "prototype board" will be another piece of inkjet-printed paper on a cardboard backing, with components glued onto it.