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phoenixdownita

Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

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It is not all that unprecedented for a video game company to use hardware other than theirs during development.

 

 

 

Of course that's a normal thing to do. What isn't normal is for companies to lie about what they're demoing, stating that the hardware is their own when it's not.

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As others have pointed out, Sony was not asking for people to buy the console before it was made. They only took money for the product after it was completed. Who knows if a system will ever come out as it looks like they have no idea how to actually make one from what they have shown so far.

 

Yeah, Sony wasn't trying to sneak into Kickstarter...

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I watched those videos of those guys on mics bashing the console for a bunch of valid reasons I can agree with. They made one point however that I wanted to discuss and that the chameleon is only supposed to come with a few games per cart... as opposed to what? The entire library? I am not sure this personally makes sense to me. I don't remember my friends telling me their Xbox One or Playstation 4 came with any games, much less 6 to 15. Would l like more games to come with the Coleco? Sure, I would love the entire library, but I realize that may not be feasible for a litany of reasons.

I guess i'm just repeating what others have said recently, but when you can get a Flashback for 30$ and get 60 games + 2 controllers, vs getting 15 games and 2 controllers for 175 bucks, and these games are often 30 - 35 years old, it can't be compared to Sony or Microsoft launching with 15 games + pack-in at launch at all. Granted, if Sony were to bundle a DVD with 15 of their very earliest Playstation 1 games with the Playstation 5 that would be some kind of analogy, but it will still be a kind of lukewarm deal.

 

As far as this thing goes it's offering nothing new at all to us gamers as a product or concept. The games are re-releases from old systems, the controllers are modified 3rd party ones from another system and the shell itself is from another system. Even their branding is re-used from a old company. The claim that it is running a custom FPGA that can handle SNES games perfectly is a very bold one too, if true they have totally revolutionized the 16-bit "emulation"-scene from the core, managing to do in a matter of months what others who wholly dedicated their concept to this have failed to do in years.

 

I have a very hard time believing they could do that when they can't wire a LED, a power button or getting a simple controller to work with their games and resort to use SNES-pads (assuming it wasn't a SNES in there, which it clearly was).

 

 

 

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The minute you ask for other people's money it changes everything. The standards increase significantly.

 

I have no doubt Mike wants to make this product. I do not think this is a scam to just get people's money and then move to Belize.

 

However, what is the difference between these two scenarios:

  1. Lying to people to get them to give you money and running off with it.
  2. Lying to people to get them to give you money and then not delivering the product/service they expected.

Although you could argue #1 is more nefarious, they both have the exact same outcome. Sure there is a chance you could also lie to people and actually deliver, but then you are arguing is that the ends justify the means. Is this the type of behavior we want to encourage, not only as a retro gaming community, but as a society? No, of course not.

 

P.S. People really need to stop comparing this to Sony, if you can't see the difference between Sony hiding the PS1 hardware at a trade show and the Coleco team doing what they have done then I think you are being willfully ignorant.

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The minute you ask for other people's money it changes everything. The standards increase significantly.

 

I have no doubt Mike wants to make this product. I do not think this is a scam to just get people's money and then move to Belize.

 

However, what is the difference between these two scenarios:

  1. Lying to people to get them to give you money and running off with it.
  2. Lying to people to get them to give you money and then not delivering the product/service they expected.

Although you could argue #1 is more nefarious, they both have the exact same outcome. Sure there is a chance you could also lie to people and actually deliver, but then you are arguing is that the ends justify the means. Is this the type of behavior we want to encourage, not only as a retro gaming community, but as a society? No, of course not.

 

P.S. People really need to stop comparing this to Sony, if you can't see the difference between Sony hiding the PS1 hardware at a trade show and the Coleco team doing what they have done then I think you are being willfully ignorant.

At the heart there is lying to get money and lying to buy time (while blocking the money flow from someone else).

We understand much better the first, the second though is also wildly used hence Sony and other cheating to generate momentum and make customers wait instead of buying into the competition.

We do recognize that time is money but still we put the 2 in wildly different buckets.

 

In principles lying is lying is lying, there should be no difference, in practice once I'm tired of waiting I can move on, if instead I already threw money it is lost ..... likely no amount of time would give it back.

So it seems time=money is not always transitive, money does buy some time, time alone does not bring money :mad:

Edited by phoenixdownita

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  1. Lying to people to get them to give you money and then not delivering the product/service they expected.

 

 

This is what I felt when I gave him money for the magazine. Yes I got a "magazine" but hardly what I was expecting. After that, I knew I wasn't ever going to help kickstart anything from him until I saw results first.

 

 

Happens a lot with crowdfunding.

 

Comparing these guys with multi-million or billion dollar companies like Sony or MS is pointless and not in the same ballpark. When you ask for public funding its a whole different game. You as an investor have every right to know whats under the hood. Kickstarter backers are investors regardless of what anyone says.

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Just to recap, since the Facebook page is all out of order because of the pin at the top. Also to preserve some of the original content, just in case it all disappears tomorrow. Times are EST because I'm on the East Coast, like Toy Fair. If after all this chatter, you thought it was unusual to hear nothing for 3 days, you were right. It's the calm before the storm.

 

December 23, 2015

"Interesting day today. Senior Buyer for Toys R Us reached out to us and we have a meeting scheduled with them at Toy Fair and developer Double Fine is asking for a dev kit as soon as one is available."

 

December 30, 2015 Coleco Chameleon rainbow logo

 

January 15, 2016

"Chameleon behind the scenes. Preparing the prototype system shells for the upcoming board installation. This was a first pass hot stamping a logo on a freshly made black system shell. We will be shrinking the logo in size and removing the white outline in the next run and compare the two versions."

 

Jan 25th

"Only 19 days until the COLECO Chameleon will be revealed at Toy Fair NY. We will make sure to post plenty of video of the playable prototype for all to see. We are all so excited to start showing it off. Are you ready?"

 

Jan 29 Sizzle reel with ColecoVision, Intellivision, and "stylish 16-bit gaming returning in 2016"

"The COLECO Chameleon is a soon-to-launch video game system that plays both classic and new retro inspired video-games on long lasting, durable cartridges. The COLECO Chameleon will debut a playable system at Toy Fair New York and on Kickstarter in February 2016. More game announcements will follow as they are confirmed."

 

Feb 2, Co-Cham t-shirts

"Only 11 days until Toy Fair New York. We hope to see some of you at the fair. Stop by the Coleco booth and play the Chameleon for the first time."

 

Feb 7 Logo with "remember when. play again."

"Get ready for our Kickstarter date reveal happening here on our Facebook page live from Toy Fair NY at 9:30 AM ET next Saturday, February 13th. Then come back daily at 9:30 AM ET where we'll reveal a new Kickstarter Reward beginning with the Limited Early Bird Retail Package/Price."

 

Feb 13 9:30am (pinned to top of Facebook page)

"We are excited to announce the COLECO Chameleon Video-Game System Kickstarter campaign will begin Friday, February, 26th 2016. Check back tomorrow at this same time to see our first Early Bird reward level. Thanks again for your support and enthusiasm."

 

Feb 13 9:55am Toy Fair setup and cartridge demo with SNES games

"Setting up this morning. Some gameplay video. We are using aftermarket SNES controllers because the proto controller many of the options (Analog sticks) aren't working with these games at this time. It's easier to demo at this stage with the SNES controllers. The controller cables are currently hard wired into the prototype. Specs and interior board shots will be show on the Kickstarter page. Toy Fair"

 

Feb 13 11:37 am

"Playing some 2-player Apocalypse 2. This game supports up to 4 simultaneous players. Toy Fair"

 

Feb 13 3:54 pm

"Eli from Piko Interactive stopped by with one of his boards, plugged in, running both Jim Power and Legend. We are running his games through our custom written SNES FPGA Core. He said they are playing flawlessly."

 

Feb 13 4:41 pm

"When the time comes to launch the official Kickstarter for the Coleco Chameleon we will be posting pictures showing the actual PCB that will be used in production for the console. The console will be FPGA and ARM based. It will have HDMI video for sure and possibily composite if we can sort PAL issues, which will happen before launching the Kickstarter."

 

Feb 14 8:31 am

"Kickstarter Reward #1 $135: 1500 Available. Early Bird Standard Retail Coleco Chameleon. Save 10%. Includes black Coleco Chameleon system, one Coleco Chameleon USB controller, HDMI cable, AC Adapter + the pack-in game.

To reiterate, we will be opening up the Chameleon for the Kickstarter campaign. Look for the next Kickstarter Reward tomorrow morning at 8:30 AM ET."

Feb 15 12:33 pm

"Kickstarter Reward #2 $150: Standard Retail Coleco Chameleon. Includes black Coleco Chameleon system, one Coleco Chameleon USB controller, HDMI cable, AC Adapter + the pack-in game.

Look for the next Kickstarter Reward tomorrow morning at 8:30 AM ET."

Feb 16 8:20 am

"Kickstarter Reward #3 $185: RPG LOVERS RETAIL BUNDLE. Includes black Coleco Chameleon video game system, one Coleco Chameleon USB controller, HDMI cable, AC adapter + the pack-in game + Piko Interactive's Battle Brave Saga game. Note, this bundle comes with two games, the pack-in game (yet to reveal) and Battle Brave Saga.

All games purchased as a part of this Kickstarter campaign will come in an exclusive campaign only cartridge color never to be produced again.

Look for the next Kickstarter Reward tomorrow morning at 7:00 AM PT, 10:00 AM ET."

Feb 17 10 am

"Kickstarter Reward #4 $185: PLATFORM LOVERS RETAIL BUNDLE. Includes black Coleco Chameleon video game system, one Coleco Chameleon USB controller, HDMI cable, AC adapter + the pack-in game + your choice of either Piko Interactive's Dorke & Ymp OR Collectorvision's Sydney Hunter and the Caverns of Death. Note, like the RPG Lovers Retail Bundle already mentioned, this comes with both the pack-in game (yet to reveal) AND the additional platforming game of your choice.

All games purchased as a part of this Kickstarter campaign will come in an exclusive campaign only cartridge color never to be produced again.

Look for the next Kickstarter Reward tomorrow morning at 7:00 AM PT, 10:00 AM ET."

Feb 18 10 am

"Kickstarter Reward #5 $210: BEAT-EM UP LOVERS RETAIL BUNDLE. Includes black Coleco Chameleon video game system, one Coleco Chameleon USB controller, HDMI cable, AC adapter + the pack-in game + your choice of either Piko Interactive's Iron Commando or LEGEND + one addition Coleco Chameleon USB controller -- Beat-em ups are best played with a friend.

Note, like the other Retail Bundles already mentioned, this comes with both the pack-in game (yet to reveal) AND the additional beat-em up game of your choice.

All games purchased as a part of this Kickstarter campaign will come in an exclusive campaign only cartridge color never to be produced again.

Look for the next Kickstarter Reward tomorrow morning at 7:00 AM PT, 10:00 AM ET."

Feb 19 9:56 am

"Kickstarter Reward #6 $225: COLECOVISION LOVERS RETAIL BUNDLE. Includes black Coleco Chameleon video game system, one Coleco Chameleon USB controller, HDMI cable, AC adapter + the pack-in game (yet to reveal) + ColecoVision Collection #1 (15-Game Multicart) + (correction) TWO exclusive USB ColecoVision style controllers.

Look for the next Kickstarter Reward tomorrow morning at 7:00 AM PT, 10:00 AM ET."

Feb 20 10 am

"Kickstarter Reward #7 $250: INTELLIVISION LOVERS RETAIL BUNDLE. Includes black Coleco Chameleon video game system, one Coleco Chameleon USB controller, HDMI cable, AC adapter + the pack-in game (yet to reveal) + Intellivision Collection #1 (15-Game Multicart) + Elektronite Intellivision Game Collection (6-Game Multicart) + TWO exclusive USB Intellivision style controllers and game collection controller overlays."

Feb 21 11:25 am

"Look for our final reward tiers to be announced this week."

then ... crickets

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How cool would it be specifically program a game for the pie and sell it on a micro SD card?

I did that, only my game is free.

 

It's a text adventure.

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If the Kickstarter launches on time, then tomorrow is still "this week" and we'll see all the tiers then. The tiers are all fairly pointless though. I think what the majority of people want to see if the response Mike has regarding the allegations from the Toy Fair. He keeps saying that all will be addressed with the Kickstarter campaign, so tomorrow we'll al have a lot to talk about.

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This whole saga

 

 

Anyone got any better photos of it?

 

ANd I dont mean a Jag with a fish on it

Edited by DBloke

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I'd ask that I get a mess of replies to this question:

Is my view of this, as a commercial version of FPGA Arcade, entirely unfounded or unwanted?

Now, I don't know what NG:DevTeam is working on, but, i'm pretty sure it's a massive 2D engine, but rumors are scarce, maybe it's 3D.

 

But, If some real (not bit but dedicated) commercial money went behind contacting IREM, Taito, whoever, getting Kevtris involved and other FPGA wizards, and emulating the special chips in old arcade systems (CPUS are mostly stock Z80, 65x02's, M68K variations/Freescale, sound chips stock too) and then releasing arcade exact versions of the game, legally, on multi carts (screw 3 and 4 bit color stuff, Atari/INTV product).. but real arcade games licenced by the current IP owners.

 

Would that not be worth the time?

I know we have free chinese stuff these days, but, honestly, your buying something that's not really legal. It maybe grey area, but, whoever makes Pandora's Box or the other crazy named items don't own licenses for these old games and many currently still have IP owners active.

 

Something where new games are brought home ever couple of months. low release volume for classic arcade collectors and new games written in those ways.

 

Is that a NO?

 

Otherwise, then, do we need an Android box with a real SSD inside, NFC charger on top, bluetooth advanced game pad, and 4GB LPDDR4 and 8big/little core setup to run all the new indie games? The SSD giving the lowest chance of ever losing the game download. Basically, the next logical follow on to Amazon Fire TV?

 

Which of these best gets to it's target audience?

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And for a $1000 they will personally send round Big Cev to shaft you personally

 

For an extra $10 he will lube up........................

 

 

 

 

Which of these best gets to it's target audience?

What is the target audience for this anyway?

 

Idiots with more money than sense? (or general come and go collectors as they are known)

The first idea for it to be a play anything machine had my interest, but in its current state im more interested in buying another Action max than it

Edited by DBloke

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I've skimmed this thread and watched a lot of YouTube on this #scam called the Coleco Chameleon.

 

Last year when it was the Retro VGS and it was going to play games from all kinds of systems by way of cartridge adapters I was interested but not for $300. I felt if the price was right it and if it could play games accurately then it would've made a nice backup for my consoles should they go belly up.

 

Then @RetroKennedy goes to the toy fair with someone else's board and shows it off claiming it to be his own. What a #fraud. It sure says a lot about his moral fiber.

 

Sorry this isn't news to anyone. Just wanted to throw my $.02 in. Judging by the rah-rah comments on Facebook it looks like this could be fully funded should their Kickstarter target be realistic.

 

Don't worry though. If the Chameleon Kickstarter fails, Mike will be back on this forum looking to sell you something else. It's all part of his evil plan.

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Don't worry though. If the Chameleon Kickstarter fails, Mike will be back on this forum looking to sell you something else. It's all part of his evil plan.

It will be re branded as the Onipiant Nega scope (Obscure magazine reference thats probably misspelt)

 

Or maybe Tiger are waiting for this

 

The Tiger #gamethingy

Edited by DBloke
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Don't judge by the number of rah rah comments. The deleted comments outnumber them by a wide margin.

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The tiers are all fairly pointless though. I think what the majority of people want to see if the response Mike has regarding the allegations from the Toy Fair. He keeps saying that all will be addressed with the Kickstarter campaign.

 

 

This is perhaps my biggest problem up to this point. Mike has been called out for being a liar and a fraud*, and his answer is "I'll get around to explaining it later." It's not just his business on the line, it's his reputation, and he's trying to song-and-dance his way around the accusations rather than face them head-on. All the while, still expecting money from us. These are not the actions of a guy who doesn't realize how bad it's gotten, these are the actions of a guy who's guilty as hell and is in over his head. All Mike wants to do is buy enough time and hope we forget everything when we see the kickstarter.

 

Well, there's not a sizzle reel sizzle-y enough to cover up this crap.

 

*This is not a rash statement made in anger. These words are carefully chosen and I stand by them.

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I'd ask that I get a mess of replies to this question:

 

Is my view of this, as a commercial version of FPGA Arcade, entirely unfounded or unwanted?

Now, I don't know what NG:DevTeam is working on, but, i'm pretty sure it's a massive 2D engine, but rumors are scarce, maybe it's 3D.

 

But, If some real (not bit but dedicated) commercial money went behind contacting IREM, Taito, whoever, getting Kevtris involved and other FPGA wizards, and emulating the special chips in old arcade systems (CPUS are mostly stock Z80, 65x02's, M68K variations/Freescale, sound chips stock too) and then releasing arcade exact versions of the game, legally, on multi carts (screw 3 and 4 bit color stuff, Atari/INTV product).. but real arcade games licenced by the current IP owners.

 

Would that not be worth the time?

I know we have free chinese stuff these days, but, honestly, your buying something that's not really legal. It maybe grey area, but, whoever makes Pandora's Box or the other crazy named items don't own licenses for these old games and many currently still have IP owners active.

 

Something where new games are brought home ever couple of months. low release volume for classic arcade collectors and new games written in those ways.

 

Is that a NO?

 

Otherwise, then, do we need an Android box with a real SSD inside, NFC charger on top, bluetooth advanced game pad, and 4GB LPDDR4 and 8big/little core setup to run all the new indie games? The SSD giving the lowest chance of ever losing the game download. Basically, the next logical follow on to Amazon Fire TV?

 

Which of these best gets to it's target audience?

Something that accurately played real arcade games licensed from the real copyright holders? Not just a MAME cab? Something that gave you a realistic arcade controller that wasn't the size of your coffee table? Worked on by good, reliable people with a good standing or reputation in the community? I'd be interested, sure... but I'd have to see some impressive stuff. Ease of use, support, being able to be connected to various monitor types, etc.

 

Occasionally, I've been involved in a minor dust up or two about using the Retron 5 as opposed to real hardware. Well, I own almost all of the "real hardware" there is to own... a box that allowed me and, particularly, my missus the ability to play a bunch of different systems all at once while hooked up to the nice tv and stereo in our living room (as opposed to sequestering ourselves in one of the other rooms where are consoles are) in a relatively easy fashion was a nice option. It didn't supplant the real hardware; it was just another option. An easy to use arcade machine (for lack of a better term) that could do the same would be interesting, much like the indieGO! sounded kind of interesting. Once stuff like this becomes just completely easy to use and ubiquitous in the living room, I'll be interested. My wife doesn't feel like sitting at the computer and plowing thru a zillion MAME roms and figuring out the difference between international versions and domestic romsets and monitor settings and controller configurations and etc. Neither do I, really. That doesn't mean I would jump on the first machine to come along that does it... I like my Retron but realistically should have waited for the Retro Freak, as it does more.

Edited by dj_convoy
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Is anyone else keeping an eye on the RetroVGS YouTube account, hoping they accidentally set their Kickstarter video to public early?

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Intellivision Productions is selling standalone Intellivision Flashback hand controllers for $8.49 each, and optional adapters to use them on old hardware. There goes the RetroVGS Chameleon's unique value proposition.

 

A number of you have been wanting to buy extras of the Intellivision Flashback hand controllers. So here they are! These are the same controllers that come with the Intellivision Flashback, with a 9-pin connector and a straight (non-curled) cord. Note: these controllers are NOT compatible with the original Intellivision, Intellivision II or Sears Tele-Games Super Video Arcade consoles unless you use an adapter cable at an additional cost, also available here in our store.

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