Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[Shawn]

 

Watching several videos of MK recently, other flaws aside, I find it truly annoying how he talks almost exclusively out of the right side of his mouth.

 

Right side is for the lies, Left side is for the truth. Make more sense now?

[MotoRacer]

 

Thats the big question and the key to all this I think. What kickstarter would have allowed. The biggest kickstarter scam I remember was Code Hero. But that had a working level as a prototype. If the Snes Jr was never discovered, which was Mike's plan, that would have been the prototype used for the kickstarter. And thus the scam. Kickstarter would never have asked to look at the innards of the prototype (I think).

 

Actually, my 2 cents is that's why he had no kickstarter. I think kickstarter told him he was full of crap, and demanded proof of a working proto (like in video form). The clear shell bullshot we saw was probably what he submitted to kickstarter as "proof".

 

The reason why I think this is because he waited until the day the kickstarter should have been live to tell everyone it was being delayed. I think that shows you right there that he was waiting as long as possible to try to get kickstarter to bend to his wishes and let "this one squeak by". Not everyone can be so easily persuaded, though. And Kickstarter doesn't need the money THAT bad, so I'm sure they told him to take a hike.

 

If he waited till the day of the fundraiser, he HAD to have been in talks with kickstarter at that point.

[RupanIII]

Yeah, no idea what NG:DevTeam is up to. They did respond to me last month that they aren't talking yet, but, it's real hardware and caters to the arcade enthusiast. They said anyone who speaks french should search Google and they'd see more.

The stupid fanboy in me says

"

I'm hoping it's a custom FPGA (sorry) Video Display Processor with 10's of Thousands of Sprites and 24bit true color/32bit color and 12-20 levels of old school parallax scrolling planes/bgs and high quality scaling rotation and a Motorola/Freescale 68060 class processor (in production and cheap from Freescale Semi) and gobs of RAM for all of it.

That, would be a nice arcade board. "

 

Even better.. honestly, just a great ARM chip with a JAMMA harness port on it. Honestly, you can get all old school, but, frankly... just a cheap ARM chip will run whirlwinds around any old hardware, so just use that.

So, according to your analogy, Mike can claim that Psygnosis/Sony support his console because they have not officially come out and disavowed the console. I am referring to Apocalypse II which Mike and someone else did some two player game play in a promo video.

As far as NG Dev Team, sure, they made the right choice in their action but they have also come out to announce their own console is in the works. So this may work in their favor. They have a vested interest in limiting the availability, at a lower price, of their games on other platforms.

 

Anyone remember when Kenji Eno dumped on Sony and their Playstation with Enemy Zero going to the Sega Saturn? Didn't seem to work out all that well for them in the long run but they made a choice in support.

 

Those are cool, i'd just recommend looking up JXD's 7800 or S192... the later one is a Kepler device

 

http://www.jxd.hk/game-console/

 

 

There's a GPX handheld windows mini-laptop on Indigogo right now that I want really badly. The old me would have bought it in a heartbeat.

 

After this mess, I convinced myself it wasn't worth the risk. I'll be 200 more than the Indiegogo when it's released, but it's 300 right now... 300 I might never see ever again if the project goes bust like this hunk of junk did.

 

It sucks for anyone releasing hardware in the future. I'm even wary of the ZX Spectrum handheld, and that thing looks perfectly done and by the original creator. But I'm just so burnt out by this "give me your money, maybe you get something later" bull, I just can't find it in my heart to back anything else anymore. Especially since this feels like the final straw on a camel's back worth of previous things I backed which either failed or turned out completely different from what they initially promised.

[Keatah]

You only have to catch a few people. How many scam emails are sent out? How many actually land victims? I don't know, 5% 10%? They keep trying. I think the Retro VGS crew saw they could probably at least recoup or make a few bucks. Hell, as Pat pointed out in his last video. None of the major tech sites that reported on this did one iota of research. There's currently shy of 200 people browsing this forum, how many pass through CNET or whatever on any given day?

 

There are too many tech evangelists, and it's getting worse. Every goddammned product seems to be the end all be all.

 

That's why I'm so cynical. And my trust has to be earned. It is not given away freely. A videogame consumer has to be cautious - unless you don't mind dropping $100 here, $200 there.. Much like most other things.

 

Anyhow, the internet is the worlds biggest bullshit amplifier.

[InnovaX5]

I think that it's over, Mike is gonna sell his shells to SAG. We can all be happy in getting colored jag shells carts and maybe some day cool labels for homebrews or original rom board variations or jag everdrives. and custom shells for the jag front and bottom but not the back since he doesn't have those. I'd go for some cool colored shell, I ordered a red clear one and yet to get it.. But oh well. Whatever, ya know. $45 my loss. I'll see what this thread look like tomorrow, I'm not even close to digging through it and will be deeper down now. Right now I'm posting this at page 174. I hope we all get some answers and what the heck kind of circus we've been part of for the chameleon. Oh well, hope we figure it all out guys, good night for now.

[deckardbr]

Not sure if this was posted earlier, here is a comment from Gamester81 on the situation. This comes from his latest uploaded video

 

Gamester814 hours ago

+NachoMan64 Not sure what the Coleco Chameleon has to do with the Star Wars pinball. LOL, but to answer your question, we're distancing ourselves from the Chameleon unless proof of a prototype is shown. We were never a part of the hardware team, so I honestly wasn't aware of what was going on behind the scenes and the decisions they made. They have shot themselves in the foot on more than one occasion as you know. Fortunately for CollectorVision we are porting games on multiple platforms regardless, so we are just going to focus on doing just that.

Edited March 2, 2016 by deckardbr

[bretthorror]

 

I remember my brother having a multi emulator handheld based on the Dingoo for about half that price 5 years ago. It's not revolutionary but it's cute and has the 'endorsement' of Sir Clive. (not really sure how deep that goes, and don't want to argue all night about it)

 

The lineup of games is likely almost exactly the same 1000 as the first release- a few classics but mostly unplayable dross. I don't know how the Vega handles remapping the keyboard/joystick to the joypad for SD card loaded games but they must have worked something out because people seemed fairly pleased with the first version.

 

Here's the list of all 1000 from the first Vega: http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2015/08/relive-your-childhood-with-the-sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega-full-list-of-1000-games-revealed.html - it's a bit like those Famiclone 300 in 1 multicarts where most of them are just awful, securing the rights for this stuff is a big headache though so hard to fault them for that.

 

I had assumed that they'd mostly be awful, but I also hoped that by some stroke of luck they'd have 50 classics or well regarded titles on the list. If it comes down to me learning an emulator to play the good games or buying a sweet, new toy to play 1000 bad ones, I may as well struggle with the emulator. It still wouldn't be the dumbest thing I've ever bought, by far. Though if I could throw a billion ROMs on it and the buttons mapped correctly somehow, it'd still be worth it to me.

[galax]

Not sure if this was posted earlier, here is a comment from Gamester81 on the situation. This comes from his latest uploaded video

Gamester81 was here posting in this thread just a couple of hours ago.

I had assumed that they'd mostly be awful, but I also hoped that by some stroke of luck they'd have 50 classics or well regarded titles on the list. If it comes down to me learning an emulator to play the good games or buying a sweet, new toy to play 1000 bad ones, I may as well struggle with the emulator. It still wouldn't be the dumbest thing I've ever bought, by far. Though if I could throw a billion ROMs on it and the buttons mapped correctly somehow, it'd still be worth it to me.

There are probably 50 decent ones, probably has 3 of my favourite 10 Spectrum games. It would be interesting to see someone's reaction if they'd never used a Spectrum before, especially running into attribute colour clash for the first time.

The greatest and simplest to use handheld console that I have is a backlit Chinese "GB Boy Colour" which contains an Everdrive full of every GB and GB Color game. It's not at all difficult to work out how to set this sort of thing up. Cost me less than a Vega+ too

[Amstari]

So what happens next? Anyone want to make a guess?

 

 

My guess is legal action will start between Mike, the rest of the team, Coleco or the hardware guy.

 

I don't know who will sue who but I'm sure not all of them were aware of everything happening. Remember Steve didn't even know Kevtris was no longer onboard. So what else wasnt disclosed to the rest of the team.

[enoofu]

Yeah, no idea what NG:DevTeam is up to. They did respond to me last month that they aren't talking yet, but, it's real hardware and caters to the arcade enthusiast. They said anyone who speaks french should search Google and they'd see more.

The stupid fanboy in me says

"

I'm hoping it's a custom FPGA (sorry) Video Display Processor with 10's of Thousands of Sprites and 24bit true color/32bit color and 12-20 levels of old school parallax scrolling planes/bgs and high quality scaling rotation and a Motorola/Freescale 68060 class processor (in production and cheap from Freescale Semi) and gobs of RAM for all of it.

That, would be a nice arcade board. "

 

Even better.. honestly, just a great ARM chip with a JAMMA harness port on it. Honestly, you can get all old school, but, frankly... just a cheap ARM chip will run whirlwinds around any old hardware, so just use that.

 

Those are cool, i'd just recommend looking up JXD's 7800 or S192... the later one is a Kepler device

 

http://www.jxd.hk/game-console/

 

 

Yeah can't wait for Neo Geo next project, they are always eating my quarters like mad, lol

[Keatah]

A project can't, just can't, operate this way. In trying to figure it all out I'm banging my head against the wall because it feels good when I stop!

[atm94404]

You only have to catch a few people. How many scam emails are sent out? How many actually land victims? I don't know, 5% 10%? They keep trying. I think the Retro VGS crew saw they could probably at least recoup or make a few bucks. Hell, as Pat pointed out in his last video. None of the major tech sites that reported on this did one iota of research. There's currently shy of 200 people browsing this forum, how many pass through CNET or whatever on any given day?

It is probably one of the greatest ironies that the very people willing to pay $150 (let alone $300) for a new "retro" gaming console that accepts cartridges and could morph into other consoles are the very people that could spot it as being a fake. The guys selling that stupid laser razor had a much easier job because there are plenty of people who no knowledge of physics and electronics that would think "Cool, I can shave with a freakin' laser beam!".

Edited March 2, 2016 by atm94404

[bretthorror]

 

The greatest and simplest to use handheld console that I have is a backlit Chinese "GB Boy Colour" which contains an Everdrive full of every GB and GB Color game. It's not at all difficult to work out how to set this sort of thing up. Cost me less than a Vega+ too

 

Oh, my emulation game is on point. However for the old home computers, I didn't really use them and it's like learning everything from scratch, so in that case, I'd take the lame man's route because I'd like to get a feel for C64 and Spectrum without really having to learn too much. Mainly because I don't have the time to really get deep into their libraries, but I'd like to casually mess around. From the looks of things, you select "Kempston Joystick" mode for most games and it makes it go off without a hitch. That alone makes me think I may as well get one, but if their retail price is the same as the KS, I'm also in no real hurry.

[RupanIII]

I just thought i'd add some Truthiness to the injury Mike's currently nursing to his ego...

 

Maybe it wasn't an SNES Jr in the second one at all..

I only say maybe the shielding was to hard to take off.

And it was acting funny...

 

Maybe it was one of these Fake SNES Jr's i see here, LOL.

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=counterfeit_snes

[Keatah]

It is probably one of the greatest ironies that the very people willing to pay $150 (let alone $300) for a new "retro" gaming console that accepts cartridges and could morph into other consoles are the very people that could spot it as being a fake. The guys selling that stupid laser razor had a much easier jobs because there are plenty of people who no knowledge of physics and electronics that would think "Cool, I can shave with a freakin' laser beam!".

 

Yes. But in this case, no pun intended, one fake emulated machine works. The other fake physical machine does nothing except generate forum posts.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Keatah

[Newsdee]

Though if I could throw a billion ROMs on it and the buttons mapped correctly somehow, it'd still be worth it to me.

Spectrum on FPGA works pretty well, although it's not portable and would cost you more than the Vega. It uses the same interface as the DivMMC to load data from the SD card.

[StopDrop&Retro]

So what happens next? Anyone want to make a guess?

 

1) RETRO Magazine stops printing

They needed this Kickstarter to succeed to keep them afloat. They'll stop printing and offer very sparse digital issues to deliver what's left of their requirement to their backers. Mike will try to sell the magazine but since it has no writing team, no physical office, no big subscriber and no good name anymore, he won't find a buyer and it will close. Mike will hold on to the brand and still try to sell it.

 

2) Mike will start selling Jag shells again in an attempt to redeem himself to the community (it won't work)

He won't sell the molds. His mindset will be- I'm the only person on earth with the tooling. I have a monopoly on this market. Why give it to someone else? If anyone wants new shells, they'll have to forgive me, they have no choice in it. He'll confuse a few sales with forgiveness.

 

3) Mike will still keep talking to hardware guys behind the scenes

But Mike won't reach out to a hardware/software guy, they'll reach out to him. Someone out there has an idea for their own Pi competitor or hell even just a new way to use an existing board like a Pi. They will contact Mike because they figure they can make Mike's dream work and get free publicity for using the Jag shells. Mike won't be able to contain himself, he'll be in hook, line and sinker.

 

4) The project will reemerge with a completely different name (again)

Mike proved to himself that the COLECO name change worked to wipe the slate clean to some extent, he figures he can do it again. We might not be stupid but the media sure is and that's all he needs. The process will repeat itself all over again, but this time he'll actually have a working prototype (yikes!) thanks to the guy with barely enough knowledge to do the job reaching out to him first. Now off to Kickstarter!!

 

5) The campaign will fail (again)

No one will give a shit. When June rolls around the whole world will be focused on NX. Any retro head looking for a console with a gimmick from a retro brand will find both qualities in the Nintendo NX. No one will have money for a novelty console.

[keepdreamin]

The sad truth is this won't be an end to the scams. The retro gaming hobby is exploding and has been for some time. I like the fact you have indie devs like Piko who are supporting the old systems, and products like multicarts and new controllers being fabricated. Prices are rising sure, but I now have other means to play the games on real hardware.

 

Mike just happened to be really REALLY bad at running a scam. It couldn't have been more blatantly obvious or horribly executed. What makes me nervous was how easily some people were duped. I mean, if you can't even catch this, how are you going to catch the next guy who actually knows what he's doing? The blood's in the water and the sharks are circling.

[Newsdee]

The C64 core of the TC64 has great SID implementation and as a bonus you can use it as VGA upscaler and SD card reader on a real C64. Only downside it has no USB and supports less cores than the MiST (I have both devices, the PC Engine core is identical betweem the two).

[Schizophretard]

An old August 2015 interview..

 

 

I'm going to have to strongly agree with Mike's preservation stance about having games forever as opposed to download only games that could be gone tomorrow. They don't necessarily have to be carts. They could be discs or even downloads as long as they are DRM free. In other words, as long as a game can be owned forever in some kind of offline storage and can be infinitely copied for back-ups then, in my opinion, that is good "cartridge preservation philosophy" which is a much better philosophy than the one that would inevitably make my OUYA games unplayable if and when their servers go down. Mikes intentions behind the ideal of the console makes sense to me. I just disagree with the scam stuff. I believe in his dream. I just don't believe him.

 

[CGQuarterly]

Reading through this thread makes me REALLY glad that I have kept the RetroVGS/Chameleon completely away from my channel and website. I have nothing to apologize to fans for, nor have I attempted to make a name for myself by hovering over Mike's carcass like a vulture.

[dommie]

So what happens next? Anyone want to make a guess?

 

 

Mike abandons the hobby of video games altogether, and takes up the new hobby of golf. He starts a new Retro Golf Magazine. He also acquires the machine tooling for the old Callaway Arnold Palmer clubs, and starts selling them in different, collectible colors. Until one day it's discovered that the driver heads were actually filled with crushed up 8-track tapes. Cue the pitchforks and torches.

[jconsolmagno]

I think I am right in my asking of Gamester81 of these questions, for which he is blowing me off as he knows nothing.

 

jconsolmagno

Please address your involvement with the Caleco Chameleon. I have seen you have deleted some of the your videos.

Reply8

xpcoin

+jconsolmagno what really? which ones? I nope it wasn't the Net Yaroze video.. i love that one!

Reply

jconsolmagno

just the ones that associated him with the Retro VGS where he stated the AtariAGE community just hated on MIke for no reason. See here, https://www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming/comments/3mlxyd/retro_vgs_system_interview_with_cofounder_mike/

Reply

Gamester81

+jconsolmagno There is never a reason to hate anyone. Sure people can disagree and have different opinions, but to me "hate" is a very strong word and shouldn't be used lightly. I do see people's concerns, and I think they're legit concerns that should be address by the Coleco Chameleon team.

Reply2

Gamester81

+jconsolmagno I also deleted the Retro VGS interview because it's no longer relevant. The RETRO VGS system isn't coming out.

Reply

jconsolmagno

+Gamester81 but you specifically said "haters" in this podcast, I don't think I took you out of context, here is link to NEOGAF http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=180235506&postcount=596

Reply

xpcoin

+jconsolmagno get over it, hater!

Reply

jconsolmagno

my problem is, I only learned of the RetroVGS/Coleco system from Gamester81 and would like clarification now, as I planned to back it. Is that too much to ask?

Reply

jconsolmagno

If you can't tell us subscribers the truth, then what is the use in tuning in and supporting you? I feel duped and would like honesty but if deleting videos and saying you had nothing to gain from it, then tell us why, because you were the first on the scene with it. 

Reply1

Gamester81

+jconsolmagno The truth whether you want to believe it or not it that we were asked to port our game over to the system. We were not involved with the hardware side of things, and are just as surprised as everyone else about what's coming out. I'm not sure that's what you want to hear, but that's the honest truth.

Reply2

QueenFanIII

+Gamester81 John, I think it'd be more appropriate to say you were willing to provide a game to them for a launch title, is that not correct? Tiny Knight was your 'launch title' for the Retro VGS, then you weren't producing anything for the Chameleon as a pack in. Were you ever asked to provide anything other than an SNES ROM to them? I'd hate to see if it went through and then they scammed you guys on royalties by under reporting unit sales, since, they were doing all the physical end.

Show less

Reply

QueenFanIII

+Gamester81 Also, is it possible to get just the Cartridge for some of your ColecoVision out of print titles? I notice the website says it's possible for some titles?

Reply

Hide replies

jconsolmagno

+Gamester81 Jon, you said you were going to pack your game in, Tiny Knight, AT COST, on many podcasts, as a way to move Retro/Coleco units. am I wrong in saying this? if this is not the case please correct me. If that is the case, then I am to assume you may have had a good connection with Mike Kennedy. closer than the other 100 developers he said on podcasts, he shared with you as moderator, that would contain Sega, right? If that is correct, you had to have known some sort of hardware specifications in order to know what would perform on his system. What did he tell you Tiny Knight would run on?

[enoofu]

Gamer81 already answered most of those questions, probably starting 2-3 pages back

[Nutsy Doodleheimer]

 

Mike abandons the hobby of video games altogether, and takes up the new hobby of golf. He starts a new Retro Golf Magazine. He also acquires the machine tooling for the old Callaway Arnold Palmer clubs, and starts selling them in different, collectible colors. Until one day it's discovered that the driver heads were actually filled with crushed up 8-track tapes. Cue the pitchforks and torches.

If he starts that campaign you know what my answer will be