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phoenixdownita

Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

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Neat. I still think the prototype was a Yobo snes / nes 2 in 1. It very well could have been a SNES Mini, the back was telling. I imagine the cart was a SD2SNES.

 

I can't say I'm surprised at all, sadly. Any attention is good attention for the Coleco Chameleon crew at this point though. They need a bunch of sheeple to shell out money to make that kickstarter goal after all.

 

Price point is key to everything for this to sink or swim. Even if it is a SNES clone in a Jaguar shell, it still has place in the niche market. People collect for the Super A'Can, they will collect for the Coleco Chameleon. It is a sad truth.

 

What a waste of Jaguar molds. I said it once and I'll say it again. The molds should have been sold to StoneAge Gamer. At least the Jaguar community would have had a bunch of awesome shells to buy already by now.

 

Oh well, by April fools day the Coleco Chameleon will be a forgotten failed kickstarter.

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Apparently they now "claim" (again "confirm" can't be used) they wrote a SNES FPGA.

 

post-36731-0-11781400-1455426940_thumb.png

 

If it were true it would be good given a fully working one has not been confirmed worldwide yet, but in that post they also said that they have not written a Genny FPGA (so obviously the sizzle reel was showing stock footage of the Genny games of course) .... but with that SNES cart edge connector I am not sure the Genny devs would be delighted .... oh wait ... I see ... an adaptor "excuse" comes to mind.

 

Also stating that they have written the "SNES FPGA" is wrong, you write a core for an FPGA not the FPGA.

Edited by phoenixdownita
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Can someone explain this to me who has hardware knowledge. I think I have this figured, but not 100%...

 

In theory, the video shows off a "Chameleon" game being played on the "Chameleon", which obviously has been nearly 100% proven that it was a SNES flash cart in the Chameleon shell. So when they play the Piko games on their custom SNES FPGA, does that not mean they'd have to have some sort of cart adapter to even make the game fit inside the Chameleon console? I'm just trying to go over all the possibilities as to how this could not be a SNES inside the system at this point. Would the SNES flash cart's board would fit in the Jag shell and yet still fit in the SNES?

 

Especially weird since Mike stated he's not making a SNES console, though he would tell you the sky is white and then argue later that clouds are white and they're in the sky.

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Apparently they now "claim" (again "confirm" can't be used) they wrote a SNES FPGA.

 

attachicon.gifWeveWrittenSNEScore.png

 

If it were true it would be good, but in that post they also said that they have not written a Genny FPGA(so the sizzle reel was showing stock footage of the Genny games of course) .... but with that SNES cart edge connector I am not sure the Genny devs would be delighted .... oh wait ... I see ... an adaptor "excuse" comes to mind.

 

 

Also stating that they written the "SNES FPGA" is wrong, you write a core for an FPGA not the FPGA.

 

I just don't understand how they kept a SNES core quiet for so long if it's gonna be included with their system because an HDMI SNES would easily sell for what they're going to likely charge for the Chameleon. And if this is the case, why the hell is there no HDMI?! Is there any plausible reason if that is their own system inside that shell to make it with composite out instead of HDMI in the proto stage?

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Sure, they're magically 'wrote' a near-perfect SNES FPGA core (which is no one ever made so far) in no time since the last failure, while everyone else put years of work into things like that, but unfortunately they had no time to make a few times simpler Genesis core. These guys are not afraid of challenges, for sure. Maybe one day they'll even dare to lit a LED...

Edited by Shiru
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I just don't understand how they kept a SNES core quiet for so long if it's gonna be included with their system because an HDMI SNES would easily sell for what they're going to likely charge for the Chameleon. And if this is the case, why the hell is there no HDMI?! Is there any plausible reason if that is their own system inside that shell to make it with composite out instead of HDMI in the proto stage?

Mike already told us this with the RVGS. Prototypes cost a LOT of money. They need funds to do that stuff, silly goose.

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Can someone explain this to me who has hardware knowledge. I think I have this figured, but not 100%...

 

In theory, the video shows off a "Chameleon" game being played on the "Chameleon", which obviously has been nearly 100% proven that it was a SNES flash cart in the Chameleon shell. So when they play the Piko games on their custom SNES FPGA, does that not mean they'd have to have some sort of cart adapter to even make the game fit inside the Chameleon console? I'm just trying to go over all the possibilities as to how this could not be a SNES inside the system at this point. Would the SNES flash cart's board would fit in the Jag shell and yet still fit in the SNES?

 

Especially weird since Mike stated he's not making a SNES console, though he would tell you the sky is white and then argue later that clouds are white and they're in the sky.

SNES carts, esepcially North American are a quite bit wider than the PCB. The SD2SNES would not fit perfectly into a jaguar shell, this is why in the picture of him holding the cart up the SD2SNES edge connector is hanging out the bottom. I assume the Piko games were just the PCB, not the full cart.

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Mike or Mike's friend,

 

Can you please pitch the CC idea to Martin Shkreli? I'm hoping he'll just have you guys build him the only Chameleon in the world and we can be done with this thing. I hear he really like owning one-of-a-kind things. He owned a couple League of Legends teams so he clearly loves video games too!

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Man today has been a whirlwind. I got up decent early for a Saturday to start watching this so I could do my thing on YouTube and was excited. I saw the no led/power thing, and then cart was "wonky", and the snes controller but was excited to see them playing something. LeoDS who comes here pointed this out to me (Last time this happen this forum showed me all the information I needed). Now as this day ends, kind of staying up late :) , I have the same sinking in the gut feeling. More promises dashed away. I have covered this thing for months (not begging for views etc, just background) and I have been up and down on the whole thing. This last week I gotten excited again, being very open minded and planting myself "right on the fence" so I would just be impartial and not bash them or be defensive of them. Well day started off ok like the IGG campaign and has gone downhill. I just don't get Mike Kennedy. Why all this? Either do it right, or just admit you can't do it and that would save much more face being honest. But no, now we are looking at a cobbled together machine that I am not sure what I am looking at. All the evidence here is great, looks to be a snes in a jag shell. :roll: Sigh. Only thing I am wondering, is they are willing to show the PCB. If they have a real one, why not show it now? If they show another damn render I might just explode. I am laughing at myself but also do disappointed. :_( Oh well tomorrow more lies to come? Lets watch and see......

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SNES carts, esepcially North American are a quite bit wider than the PCB. The SD2SNES would not fit perfectly into a jaguar shell, this is why in the picture of him holding the cart up the SD2SNES edge connector is hanging out the bottom. I assume the Piko games were just the PCB, not the full cart.

 

Conveniently, right? ;)

 

Mike already told us this with the RVGS. Prototypes cost a LOT of money. They need funds to do that stuff, silly goose.

 

Haha I remember Mike saying how expensive they are! Being an honest person, I'm just trying to put myself in Mike's shoes and wondering how the hell he thinks he's gonna get away with:

 

a) saying, "The Coleco Chameleon isn't going to be a remade SNES as some are speculating." - Which to me says this is not going to be a SNES chip if it in fact turns out to be.

b) saying, "We've written a SNES FPGA" which means his team made that and as such, SNES HDMI ability should be a lock for the Chameleon, even if it's an add-on, or else why did they make the core? It's not like they bought one to use this one time if he's explicitly stating they wrote one.

c) saying they'd have a working prototype at the Toy Fair and for their KS when it seems almost 100% obvious they don't have one.

d) if there is not a SNES mini inside that Jag shell, why can't he explicitly state that there isn't one in there? That would be the absolute easiest thing to do.

 

Unlike his backtracking and bending of truths before, to go back on these things would be outright lies that no one could weasel their way out of.

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Apparently they now "claim" (again "confirm" can't be used) they wrote a SNES FPGA.

 

i am a software, hardware, and test design engineer for automotive and aeronautics

 

if I designed a home brew FPGA and or ARM breakout board running some custom one of a kind software, that shit would be in a lexan box with a laser engraved plaque explaining why it was important, seriously, I have made single digit conference room meetings with higher quality prototypes than these clowns showed up to a fking public trade show

 

tape is fine for an internal evaluation, for a show yo better bring your A game, and for the record the A game is going to frigging hobby lobby and buying 15$ worth of hot knives, rulers and sanding sticks.

 

A child could have made a better presentation than this obscene display of ignorance

Edited by Osgeld
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Well, I spent all day at the airport trying to get to the show to support Coleco (they invited me), and I never made it due to weather. Mike is a good friend of mine, I stand by my friends in good and bad (you have to affect me personally in a negative way to lose that friendship which Mike has not done). I understand all this that is going on and see no need to provide opinions unless I know facts, I am not going to abandon a friend because its popular to get on the hate train. Its easy to hate, it takes work to look at a situation and analysis it.

I fully expect this post will get twisted around :P

 

 

there is nothing wrong with supporting a friend. I guess people on here just have many questions about the product after the video today. I was actually just hoping that the troubles were over and the RVGs team were back on track. The product at the end of it is more important to me than the people behind it.

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In a nutshell, the Chameleon "prototype" they demoed is naught but an SNES mini stuffed inside a Jag shell. When questioned, Mike was caught blatantly lying on Facebook claiming there is an FPGA inside the proto emulating SNES hardware.

 

For starters, the Mini PCB does have Nintendo's logo stamped on it. Secondly, clones exist and are a thing now, but they don't claim to be something they're not. Clones claim to play old games. That much is true. The clone makers aren't claiming to be some radical new hardware that will revolutionize the industry, but are merely a brand new replacement for old hard to find hardware.

 

Does anyone out there have a snes flashcart, the roms from today's demo and a Jaguar casing to make their own version of the prototype?

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Does anyone out there have a snes flashcart, the roms from today's demo and a Jaguar casing to make their own version of the prototype?

Me, got the Jag + SNES mini + SD2SNES but I will NOT do it ... there's no point.

After all the allegations they have not yet stated that the prototype they are showing is NOT a SNES mini, they keep on saying the KS console will be ARM + FPGA, but that is an answer to a different question.

 

Of all the consoles they could have shown as "FPGA cores" they have chosen one without a working public FPGA version ... :-o ... they could have made a worse choice only if they showed us Neo-Geo games ... as for that there's no known working FPGA core at all .... but as they stated on FB, PikoInteractive and CollectorVision happen to be in for their SNES based catalog .... thank god NG:DEV.Team was nowhere near this time around or we would be having the same conversation with SNES replaced by NeoGeo ... but that would have been even less credible.

Edited by phoenixdownita

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Okay, hear me out, now

 

So, if it's got:

A coleco badge

jaguar case

and snes board

 

Then, to be complete all it needs are:

saturn controllers

famicom cartridges

turbo grafx power supply

and the soul of an unbaptized child

 

My logic cannot be denied.

Frankenstein's monster must live.

 

pLq5sF4.gif

 

..... you forgot Wii controllers too!!!

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And if this is the case, why the hell is there no HDMI?! Is there any plausible reason if that is their own system inside that shell to make it with composite out instead of HDMI in the proto stage?

 

You don't get it, you're a n00b. They're authentically retro. This console started with those pitch fork connectors and after months of development they went through RF and now they're at composite. Give them a few more months, then they'll go from RCA to HDMI.

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We have been working very hard to rope this all back in and have worked miracles the past few months to get to where we are today.

I have to suspect that the "miracles" in question here have very little to do with hardware, and more to do with:

  1. Coming up with an alliterative name
  2. Paying Coleco to let them license the brand
  3. Getting Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashback titles licensed
  4. Getting a handful of SNES and Sega homebrews and obscurities lined up as launch titles
  5. Getting a spot on Coleco's Toy Fair table, but not too close to the creepy Cabbage Patch dolls
  6. Makin' a video with all of those games they've worked so hard to license! It's not easy capturing video from four different consoles emulators. Probably took a whole afternoon!
  7. T-shirts!!

I'm not sure I understand the general reaction here. What if this thing actually was a Super-NES in a Jaguar enclosure? Shouldn't that be regarded as good news? The Super-NES hardware is documented well enough that enterprising people could get started on making new games for the Chameleon without having to wait to receive a dev kit from Mike & co. And many Super-NES legacy games could be re-released as Jag-like carts. I dunno, that just sounds like a good thing to me...

Let's say for the sake of discussion, it was a SNES clone. This brings up a few questions:

  1. What about their "launch titles" that include Sega, Intellivision and ColecoVision titles? A SNES clone will not play those.
  2. Assuming they figure that out (perhaps stuffing the guts of several Flashbacks inside the shell with a big rotary switch to flip between them), would someone really want to develop new SNES games that couldn't actually be played on a real SNES? They'd be shooting themselves in the foot, or would have to have two different cartridges made.
  3. Would someone really want to re-buy a Chameleon re-issue of an old SNES game? Wouldn't they rather just buy a cheap SNES and the original cart?
  4. And if it was a SNES, and you couldn't play original carts on it, and couldn't load SNES, ColecoVision, Intellivision or Sega games on it any other way, would anyone ever buy one?

Sooo, I suspect to play INTV/Coleco games on this hypothetical system, they'll just get them reprogrammed to run on the SNES. Those Intellivision TV game things used an NES on a chip, and had all reprogrammed INTV games that ran on a NOAC. I know this, because I dumped the ROMs in one of them.

 

But what of the ColecoVision games? I highly doubt they've got the capital to hire chumps programmers to re-write all of those launch titles for SNES hardware. Maybe that's what the Kickstarter campaign will be for. Reach a certain tier, and they'll do Frog Pond! Woohoo! (Whoops, almost wrote Fraud Pong for some unfathomable reason.)

 

One of the biggest criticisms of the Flashback consoles is when the games fall short of the originals, either due to poor emulation, inaccurate hardware reproduction, or bad programming. Given their work to date, I can't imagine them doing this anything but poorly, if at all.

 

I was excited at the idea of a new console without all the BS you get with modern gaming such as digital-only games, updates, DLC, and patches. Not necessarily because its "retro." It could run modern games for all I care. Just get rid of the internet connection and sell complete physical copies of games that don't rely on being online.

 

The problem is, those consoles already exist, and there are thousands of titles for them. The Chameleon is competing with ghosts, and those ghosts have far more titles than the Chameleon ever will. And, those ghosts had popular titles, too. The Chameleon has no killer app. Zero.

 

I meant to make a single response to all but it did not work out that way :P wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :P

 

That's what MultiQuote is for. That's how I did this one. ;)

 

Whew! Now I'm all tired from reading all of these posts and typing all that up. I don't think I'm going to be able to get up early tomorrow. [sarcasm]Hope I don't miss anything exciting![/sarcasm]

Edited by Nathan Strum
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You don't get it, you're a n00b. They're authentically retro. This console started with those pitch fork connectors and after months of development they went through RF and now they're at composite. Give them a few more months, then they'll go from RCA to HDMI.

I know I would end up in hell eventually, just didn't think it would be this soon, or that I was there all along "Remember When." style. http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=pitchfork+connector

They're called spade connectors, not pitchforks. :roll:

783250683086lg.jpg

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Kev, do you have a working FPGA core for SNES?

What cores do you have working for your project?

Just wondering, i've never quite been sure, but I know you at least have several.

 

Thanks.

I have no full SNES core, but I do have a fairly decent SPC core (SNES audio CPU). So far I have:

 

NES/fami (all mappers + all expansion sound)

Coleco

SMS

GG

Gameboy/GBC

Creativision

7800

Arcadia 2001

Video Brain

Channel F

Studio 2

Supervision

Odyssey^2 + the voice

Intellivision + computer add on + intellivoice

2600 + all mappers (minus harmony)+ atarivox + supercharger + supercharger demo unit

 

These are all done, working, and debugged. I have a few minor things on GBC still to clear up though. 99% of stuff works

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Sure, they're magically 'wrote' a near-perfect SNES FPGA core (which is no one ever made so far) in no time since the last failure, while everyone else put years of work into things like that, but unfortunately they had no time to make a few times simpler Genesis core. These guys are not afraid of challenges, for sure. Maybe one day they'll even dare to lit a LED...

Yeah I am not buying that at all. Unless they are going to license one that's already out there. But I am not sure of the quality or coverage of any existing ones, though a few do exist.

 

For mine, I fully expected to spend a couple months getting the basics down (PPUs, CPU, DMA, cart stuff) and another couple more to debug it well enough to play a few games like Super Mario World. Unless they got buckets of money to dump into someone's time to dev it, it most likely does not and will not exist. Even if they used an existing one, it's still bound to a dev board, so they'll have to design a PCB for it, and since they dumped John, I am not sure who could design it for them without asking for money up front.

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I have no full SNES core, but I do have a fairly decent SPC core (SNES audio CPU). So far I have:

 

NES/fami (all mappers + all expansion sound)

Coleco

SMS

GG

Gameboy/GBC

Creativision

7800

Arcadia 2001

Video Brain

Channel F

Studio 2

Supervision

Odyssey^2 + the voice

Intellivision + computer add on + intellivoice

2600 + all mappers (minus harmony)+ atarivox + supercharger + supercharger demo unit

 

These are all done, working, and debugged. I have a few minor things on GBC still to clear up though. 99% of stuff works

 

200.gif

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John Willaford Will those pictures be of a real physical pcb which you had made to order for testing purposes with your FPGA , ARM, Memory, and IO circuits and connectors soldered in and working, or of a render of the board you plan to build?
Currently, does your demo floor unit play anything aside from SNES/SFC games?
Like · Reply · 8 hrs
12642617_940617189340885_497132059328167
Retro Video Game Systems, Inc. Hi John. We will open the Chameleon up for the Kickstarter campaign. For the show it happens that we wrote a SNES core and that is why we are showing the SNES games from Piko and Collectorvision.

 

 

 

Uhm, they really insist they have an FPGA core don't they.

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yeah, there is no way they are going to open up what they have there as it would just prove what we are saying here. so we have to for the kickstarter to see something. its going to be completely different than what was shown at the toy fair though. I have seen zero evidence to prove or even suggest that this is not a SNES mini in a jag shell and don't expect there to be any either.

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