goldenegg Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 It's not the people responsible for the fair who need to be made aware of what's going on. It's the people at Coleco Holdings who need to be made aware of what Mike is doing. In the end, it makes them look bad. The issue here is that no one has 100% proof what's going on. We won't unless Mike opens the system and the fair or openly admits what he did. Without that proof, you can't go contacting Coleco Holdings about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Update: It looks like the Coleco Chameleon is able to play Atari games- could this mean that maybe, just maybe, we are wrong after all? Might it play other things too? Time will tell... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamajoe Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Now MK deleted the photo of the back of the system from his Facebook account... way to convince people that everything is legit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickyOldGamer Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 It's not the people responsible for the fair who need to be made aware of what's going on. It's the people at Coleco Holdings who need to be made aware of what Mike is doing. In the end, it makes them look bad. The issue here is that no one has 100% proof what's going on. We won't unless Mike opens the system and the fair or openly admits what he did. Without that proof, you can't go contacting Coleco Holdings about this. I respectfully disagree. If the fair allows this fraud to go at least unchecked then they are guilty for fraud to be shown off. Now I know they are busy and can't check it all, I am not blaming them. But if they were made aware, and I am NOT going to do that and open that can of worms, then if they didn't check, yeah it also on them. Again just a 'what if' question, but even without proof telling Coleco or the ToyFair is still ok, as the Coleco people are INVESTORS and have a right to check their investment for fraud. The ToyFair have a right to make sure they are legal and not allowing others to show off stolen work. Again I am not going to do this and I think nobody will, and we can agree to disagree, but I think if somebody did contact anybody both the ToyFair AND Coleco have every right to demand this be checked. Anyway just a thought, not to stir up another big discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Remember, frowners never win: youtube.com/watch?v=MVogUqWScYc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVogUqWScYc So smile, darn ya, smile: youtube.com/watch?v=tpjLVlhWcAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpjLVlhWcAc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_ocelot Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) I wonder if contacting the ToyFair and reporting this would they even care? I mean if they don't' they are accepting people taking intellectual property of another company, Nintendo, and passing it off at their event as original. Probably not the proper venue for that sort of thing. It's not like this is a one-time event and there's plenty of rope elsewhere to trip themselves up on. We've been through this dog and pony show before with the 'kitchen table' demonstration. I suspect this will go right into the Kickstarter and go about the same way as the IGG campaign did. At that point we'll get some more blaming and finger pointing at the 'haters' who doomed the project and we'll gear up for Round 3 -- Where the 'new' console will be even more awesome with even more developers on board. Hopefully someone will step in at that point and say "no" or they run out of other people's money to spend. Edited February 14, 2016 by rob_ocelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I'm more concerned about letting people who get suckered into the Kickstarter know ALL of the facts. People need to know who they're getting in bed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atm94404 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 It's not the people responsible for the fair who need to be made aware of what's going on. It's the people at Coleco Holdings who need to be made aware of what Mike is doing. In the end, it makes them look bad. The issue here is that no one has 100% proof what's going on. We won't unless Mike opens the system and the fair or openly admits what he did. Without that proof, you can't go contacting Coleco Holdings about this. If you listen to the latest Colecovisions podcast, you can hear the guy in charge of the Coleco brand. If you listen to the podcast, I think you will see that he and Mike are kindred spirits. When asked about his Colecovision memories and history, he mostly wanted to talk about how he had mostly sealed copies of all his games. And then made the additional point that he sent them off to be officially graded. When listening, I mentally shouted "but what about actually PLAYING the games?" He also talked about how he admired Apple's branding and culture. Now my first computer was an Apple IIe that I loved dearly. This guy embraces the part of Apple I don't care for- namely the one that wants a customer who wants to be seen with the latest Apple product rather than worry about the battery life or whether I can us an sd card. The more this guy talked, the more I pictured the store owner from Toy Story 2. At the end of the podcast, he did kind of plug the Coleco Chameleon and mentioned how many "traceable impressions" it had and how social media was gobbling it up. This is the final indicator that this guy is a pure marketing creature. "Impressions" are a term that marketing people love to use to make whatever they're doing sound the most important. Basically any page view or video count or like on Facebook counts as an "impression". The problem is, there is no qualitative measure to any of this. It's a number that only goes up. It's a scale designed by marketing people so that they can never look bad (IMHO). It's based on the demonstrably false marketing myth that "there's no such thing as bad publicity". Really? Tell that to Bill Cosby and Mel Gibson. I've even had some experience with this. The marketing guy for a product I worked on came up with a completely inappropriate commercial and somehow convinced management that it was "edgy" and they ran with it. Not only didn't it show the product properly, but the ad was deemed offensive to women. Articles were written about it! The gist of many were "I don't know what X is (because you can't tell from the commercial) but not only won't I buy it- I won't buy anything else by this company!" How did the marketing guy spin this? +1 Impression for article and +1 impression for every page view the article got and +1 for every mention the article got in other media. Like I said, it's a scale designed by marketing types so they can never look bad. So all the posts and all these views about the Toy Fair? The guy in charge of the Coleco name is just adding them to the total of "traceable impressions" so that it will sound even more impressive the next time he talks about the Coleco Chameleon. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickyOldGamer Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Again I was thinking out loud, not all will agree that is cool. I am not reporting anything, not going that route at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_ocelot Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I respectfully disagree. If the fair allows this fraud to go at least unchecked then they are guilty for fraud to be shown off. Now I know they are busy and can't check it all, I am not blaming them. But if they were made aware, and I am NOT going to do that and open that can of worms, then if they didn't check, yeah it also on them. Again just a 'what if' question, but even without proof telling Coleco or the ToyFair is still ok, as the Coleco people are INVESTORS and have a right to check their investment for fraud. The ToyFair have a right to make sure they are legal and not allowing others to show off stolen work. Again I am not going to do this and I think nobody will, and we can agree to disagree, but I think if somebody did contact anybody both the ToyFair AND Coleco have every right to demand this be checked. Anyway just a thought, not to stir up another big discussion. These types of trade shows are all about smoke and mirrors -- sizzle and dazzle. Everyone is fibbing in small ways to make their product seem better than their rivals. The show organizers are not responsible for the content or lack thereof of the people who purchased space for a booth, nor are they in the business of policing intellectual property disputes while the show is going on. At worst, it's highly embarassing within the industry to be caught out stealing another company's IP at one of these shows -- that's usually a soft deterrant to these sorts of shennanigans. Smaller fish or companies with no shame or self-awareness might be able to get away with it without anyone noticing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickyOldGamer Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 So this is normal? Ok then, never mind my silly thought. Lets carry on with more Fail Chameleon info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I definitely agree that the COLECO guy seems like Mike's kindred spirit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) A lot of people are still drinking Mike's Kool Aid but if there's one thing to take solace in, it's to know that their Facebook likes have gone down steadily throughout this shit show. The photo with the unit hooked up to the white CRT TV: 689 likes The first video from the Toy Fair: 396 likes The photo with Piko Interactive: 196 likes Announcement that it's not a SNES: 152 likes First Kickstarter reward announcement (but in all fairness, it was only 3 hours ago): 130 likes If the goal is what we think it is, Mike will need to sell at least 2,000 units during the KS campaign and it looks to me like they're losing people. Maybe it's just fatigue from all the updates, not everyone feels the need to hit the like button. But I think Mike is losing the segment of people who were genuinely interested in the system, were willing to forgive and forget the past and were looking forward to being impressed by what Mike was teasing. Those people are never coming back thanks to this stupid stunt. Also, I'm happy to see that Michael Ponder, Jr., who was by far their most rabid and defensive fan on FB leading up to the Toy Fair has seen the light. I hope others can begin to think rationally too. Edited February 14, 2016 by StopDrop&Retro 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Just to show what I stated before about Mike not revealing EVERYTHING at once and thus all his shortcomings, if he'd have been honest and leaked small disappointments along the way, everyone wouldn't be down his throat all at once now and some people might be talking about the KS price point (which is not low enough for me to early back) that is on par with what people want and would have finally given him a hint of positive publicity. But nope, he's gotta hide everything and be devious about shit and now all you hear is SNES in a Jag shell and his tomfoolery and everyone has such a lack of trust in him they don't even care to discuss the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_ocelot Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) I'm more concerned about letting people who get suckered into the Kickstarter know ALL of the facts. People need to know who they're getting in bed with. If someone throws their money at this without doing a modicum of research, even just a casual google search of 'Coleco Chameleon' or 'RetroVGS' then there's probably not much you can do to convince them otherwise. No need to appoint yourself their defender, IMO. Vote with your dollars and don't support the project, with an informed opinion. Your job is done. Edited February 14, 2016 by rob_ocelot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_ocelot Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 So this is normal? Ok then, never mind my silly thought. Lets carry on with more Fail Chameleon info! Well, normal in the sense that many trade show prototypes never see the light of day past the show. Normal for products that are over-hyped and under deliver. I did some searching for "Toy Fair intellectual fraud" and the like but came up empty. Leads me to believe it's one of those things thats an industry unspoken "you could do it, but you'd look really stupid doing it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) Must have overslept this morning ... and it feels like we're back at September .... "Remember When" Mike was deleting posts and pictures from FB? The only thing to say is that at this stage Mike is doing exactly the same thing he did last time after having sworn he wouldn't (not just the FB censorship, but the backpedaling, the lies, the stalling technique, the emphasis on the wrong aspects, the overblown promises [we wrote a SNES FPGA, OK make it run on your dev board then], the fake claims etc...etc...). Edited February 14, 2016 by phoenixdownita 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoupe91 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) I think Mike is losing the segment of people who were genuinely interested in the system, were willing to forgive and forget the past and were looking forward to being impressed by what Mike was teasing. Those people are never coming back thanks to this stupid stunt. Also, I'm happy to see that Michael Ponder, Jr., who was by far their most rabid and defensive fan on FB leading up to the Toy Fair has seen the light. I hope others can begin to think rationally too. This is me right here. I was willing to look past the first fiasco since it was obvious that Mike lacked experience with dealing with the general public. But this is just unforgivable. I hope Mike loses his ass on his precious Jag shells. Edited February 14, 2016 by supercoupe91 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 So many posts on FB have been removed. There was a thread under one of my comments that had 12 responses, all of which have been removed. You can see similar deletions across all of the posts Mike has made then past few days. So basically Mike is yet again going to pretend nothing is wrong and continue trying to deceive people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_ocelot Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Must overslept this morning ... and it feels like we're back at September .... "Remember When" Mike was deleting posts and pictures from FB? The only thing to say is that at this stage Mike is doing exactly the same thing he did last time after having sworn he wouldn't (not just the FB censorship, but the backpedaling, the lies, the stalling technique, the emphasis on the wrong aspects, the overblown promises [we wrote a SNES FPGA, OK make it run on your dev board then], the fake claims etc...etc...). Just wait until it's all your fault for talking negative about the Chameleon... Setting my watch by it, in fact. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 One positive that's come out of all this is that all the talk about the SNES Jr got me in the mood to play some SNES games this afternoon. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 So many posts on FB have been removed. There was a thread under one of my comments that had 12 responses, all of which have been removed. You can see similar deletions across all of the posts Mike has made then past few days. So basically Mike is yet again going to pretend nothing is wrong and continue trying to deceive people. Same here, I posted 'Show the pcb and prove everyone wrong.', there were about 3 replies, now gone. My post is still there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Should this be moved to the Classic Gaming section now that we know it's a SNES? 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) Because it's just a name licensing deal. That's it. Period. This is what a lot of people find hard to accept, and I don't blame them, usually if a company puts their name on something they make sure it's done right because it could negatively affect the brand. COLECO has no brand, it doesn't make anything, it has nothing to lose. What River West Brands does is just squat on a brand name like you would squat on a URL. Then when someone like Mike comes along with a get rich quick scheme they'll make an agreement to get some of Mike's cut in exchange for the licensed brand name. I don't have any evidence for it, but I know Mike doesn't want to spend any of his money, so he probably offered them a cut off the top of the Kickstarter proceeds. So this deal is only hurting the kickstarter backers, since they now have to pay for the console AND the Coleco licensing. At the first Coleco announcement, I thought this deal could help in funding (so a kickstarter wasn't needed) and R&D... It looked like a great plan to me. Edited February 14, 2016 by roland p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) So if last time was any indication (which it is 100%), tomorrow the second tier will be about colored/transparent shells +/- some other game availability. If you notice today's announcement: "Kickstarter Reward #1 $135: 1500 Available. Early Bird Standard Retail Coleco Chameleon. Save 10%. Includes black Coleco Chameleon system, one Coleco Chameleon USB controller, HDMI cable, AC Adapter + pack-in game." but it doesn't name the pack-in game at all, like last time, that's gonna be revealed at the KS obviously. He always does that as if the actual game is unimportant ...... in a video game system Edited February 14, 2016 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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