New compatible system - planning

[foft]

Over the last year I worked on several PCBs that could be used as a basis for actual new hardware - i.e. a new highly compatible clone. I wrote up some details here:

http://www.scrameta.net/eclairexl.html

 

To summarise as it stands there are three prototype boards:

• Joystick/SIO/XEGS keyboard board
• Cartridge/PBI board
• Main board with custom chipset and 6502 reimplementation, SDRAM, USB, video and audio

I'm looking for suggestions on how to take this forward next year.

 

Ideally I'd like to end up with something cased and well presented. Something I could get a small run manufactured without too much time/capital invested! I'm keen to support all key existing ports of the original system - properly. e.g. joystick ports that fully work so multijoy, touch tablet, paddles etc work.

 

One idea would be to make design an all-in one board in a mini-itx form factor, so one could then use an off the shelf case. The trouble is Eagle boards over 100mmx160mm need the 'professional' license - an extra >1000CHF over the hobbyist one!

 

A problem with the mini itx idea is - what about the cartridges! They should ideally be inserted on top.

 

Finally there is the big question of video/audio output. Currently the board has a 3.5mm jack plug for audio and VGA/S-Video/Composite for video. The latter being driven by an RGB video DAC, with a different core to instead output luma/chroma/composite. HDMI is an option but looks a little more complex to design for and I like to be able to use my old CRT.

 

Anyway I'm keen to capture any suggestions, desired features etc so I can work them into my design.

[UNIXcoffee928]

I'd like a single space 1U rackmount chasis, much like the Roland MKS-50, with a cartridge port on the right, like the Roland MKS-70 / MKS-80.

 

[popmilo]

RGB scart or video composite is good enough. CRT does add a lot to nostalgia trip. Would be shame to watch it on perfect hd lcd tv...

 

ITX board size would be nice too. If size is a problem could you try to make it using free software like Kicad or Geda tools ?

[lemiel]

PBI or CART + ECI?

 

Maybe DVI instead of HDMI would be bettter (is probably more royalty free) and could be in one jack with VGA.

Also: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/243316-the-new-device-true-interlaced-mode-graphics-preorder/- if it goes from lab should be nice to see this mode.

 

Other sound chips in - YM, SID?

 

What about a mouse like in TransKey-II?

 

6502 only or maybe 65C816 in socket (like in Rapidus)?

 

Did you see this topic - http://atariage.com/forums/topic/244671-project-nxtxe/

 

I know, everything written by me up is only wishes of dreamer.

[foft]

Ha, a rackmount Atari . Hmmm, I could then put a bunch of them in a rack for each one of the 8-bit systems. Might be easier to have a switch to select the system though!

 

I tried Kicad before, but couldn't get on with it. Perhaps I have try again. The thing with Eagle is that there are so many free libraries out there.

 

Re PBI+Cart. The thing with ECI is that I don't think the connectors are that easy (possible?) to source. Though it is simpler to layout, since the cart pins just go straight to a second cart socket.

 

Mouse we can do from the existing USB sockets, no problem. Or the DB9s.

 

The 65816 in socket is an interesting idea. There is no decent free 65816 hdl implementation, so this would definitely be the way to be most compatible with the new accelerators. Though I'm not sure there is that much benefit over a turbo 6502 in practice, since there is very little 65816 specific software on the XL/XE.

 

Yeah I saw the NXTXE. Some interesting ideas, though I'd rather start from a baseline of the original XL. So as close to 100% compatibility with that, then adding turbo (32x faster 6502 and custom chip access) mode and high speed 2x or 4x antic/gtia (for 80 col/160 gr 0 and 320x200 gtia modes). These are all close to implemented in the current core, just needs some debugging.

 

Adding other sound chips to the core isn't a problem (if someone implemented them) - again its a matter of software. Where these are available on a cart (e.g. slight sid) I think it makes sense to stick with that strategy.

 

Surprised there are no comments on the prototype boards themselves (with schematics and pcb files), but I guess they interest me far more than anyone else!

Edited January 2, 2016 by foft

[Irgendwer]

You could produce something matching to this:

 

http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/Njc3OTM1OTk-/Bauelemente_Bauteile/Gehaeuse/Kunststoffgehaeuse_BOPLA_T_893.html

 

add original keyboard & some spay paint, voilà, the 1024XLS...

 

Another idea, since Atari STs are very cheap to get nowadays, is to produce something matching to these cases (ports/cut-outs).

Additional ST-keyboard connector & floppy disk connector would be very cool then. A fully integrated A8 system in a 130XE compatible look....

 

[Dropcheck]

A decent pcb design system is definitely not cheap. Have you looked into Diptrace?

 

Here's the link of pricing. http://diptrace.com/buy/online-store/

[kenames99]

KiCAD has done a major update a few months ago.it has it's quirks of course but I use and like it. There are utilities to translate eagle libs and components and footprints to kicad also. There are many free libs available as well.

 

Ken

[foft]

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

I like the ST one, but they're a bit big! I thinking of something smaller than a 600XL. Perhaps I could build my own case that looks more like a 1064, except with cartridge slot. Or maybe a 3d printer design for that, so whoever wants to pay can get it printed. Any volunteers to design that? :-) Perhaps I should go along to my local maker club and see if someone fancies helping me. Not sure my French is up to it yet though!

 

Diptrace looks interesting. I should take a real look at it. My main fear is that I'd have to redo the BGA breakout, which was quite... entertaining! I ended up writing scripts to generate the Eagle XML files.

 

For now I've decided to go ahead and add an HDMI port, as inspired by the reverse u16. It looks much simpler to implement (except audio, but Charlie added support here - https://github.com/charcole/NeoGeoHDMI). IfI can manage to route some signals out to it - getting pretty crammed on 4 layers.

[ndary]

awsome project!

[kenames99]

yea, I think so to. just bought a de1 to jump in with. ☺

[pirx]

awsome project!

ditto!

[+Ripdubski]

Very cool indeed.

[Matej]

Looks good. What about:

2xPOKEY for sound (in FPGA core)

2x USB - USB keyboard (Atari XE keyboard layout) + USB mouse (amiga / atari ST mouse)

2x USB - USB gamepad or USB joystick

EEPROM (for BASIC, QMEG etc etc)

SD card (as SDRIVE)

1 x VGA

FPGA (ATARI 65XE / 130XE) but faster

1MB ram

small as BITBOX

Edited February 14, 2016 by Matej

[Guest]

looks like a great idea. can i add a suggestion?

 

how about transparent plastic casing?

[ApolloBoy]

since Atari STs are very cheap to get nowadays

Uhhh what?

[darwinmac]

It looks great so far. I'm interested in whether it will have the option to switch between PAL and NTSC video standards. With my NTSC XEGS, there are games that I can only play in an emulator because the game was developed for a PAL system. I do like the fact that it will support up to 1MB of memory. I haven't wanted to change my stock XEGS and there are a few games or applications that need more memory.

 

I think you did the 8-bit FPGA core for the MIST. One thing I like about this system is that it would allow me to use my original disks and cartridges. I appreciate the fact that you are adding HDMI video and audio to the system. That will make it work easily with the HDTV that I'm currently using with the XEGS because it also supports composite video.

 

I hope it has the option for a small case. Looking on your website, it looks like the system itself is rather small. Since I have limited space, I'm hoping it won't be stuck inside a large case.

 

 

Bob C

[bugs]

I would love to see this in a 1064 size and style case, with vga/hdmi/usb/cartridge/sd card and real joystick ports.

[AtariNerd]

Looks spiffy. I'm always interested, though I'm always just looking for at least one of these designs to eventually get implemented through to production...*smile* I'll pay a good bounty on a good quality stand-alone device.

 

Always liked your compatabilty aims, as well as your frequency-bumping of the varous chips to boost functionality, for those of us who like to play around.

[MaxZorin]

Hello, this is my first post

I always mused "what if" Atari released a new hardware 8-bit somewhere in the mid 80's! That's why I really like this project.

If it was "my" project:

CPU: 32x speed is acceptable, even 16x is enough.

ANTIC: twice the resolution of graphics modes is acceptable. I am also thinking about "bitplanes". For example, a two independent "ANTIC-5 plus" modes (320x192 overall screen resolution). Independent scrolling and 4 colors per char. Can be combined into one bitplan, so it gave us 16 colors for chars.

GTIA: max. 4096 color palette, with a little "twist" - I mean not very accurate representation of RGB, which would bring the "character", which original Atari and other 8-bit computers had. Let's say, 64 colors with 64 shadows.

More sprites. Hi-res sprites! RGB scart or video composite is ok. Yes, CRT does add a lot to nostalgia trip.

POKEY: more channels plus kind of new features for Atari: PWM modulation and two (digital) filters (with LP, HP, BP modes)...

[foft]

See this thread reawakened last month:)

 

Matej: USB and dual pokey already supported. There are plenty of small boards around. I'm going for more full-featured (or all ports) rather than small.

 

Bugs: Think that (1064 style) is my preferred approach. I was hoping someone on the boards with a 3D printer would volunteer to design one.

 

Darwinmac: Yes pal/ntsc will be switchable. The Altera pll can be dynamically reconfigured. I just need to implement it!

 

Atarinerd: Implemeneted to production - yeah it might take some time!! Ordered new boards but not done anything on the case.

 

Maxzorin: Nice ideas. I will finish 2x and 4x antic mode eventually. It's 90% there but needs a week of debugging. CPU x16 works, x32 is close... As for the rest, sounds like the Amiga! Would be fun but I probably won't implement. But never say never!

[venom4728a]

Very interested in getting one of these when they are ready.

 

Robert

[madhatter667]

This is effing cool. Keep us posted.

Edited March 27, 2016 by madhatter667

[Guest]

i think the concept is a great one, and while it's accepted that USB and modern video ports will be essential, I'd say that

SIOs/PBIs/atari joystick ports are equally important

 

what about an Atari keyboard interface? this would mean being able to attach a genuine XL/XE externally

 

if it can ALL fit into a box to look like a 1064 then that's great - because, essentially, it DOES need to look like an Atari 8-bit - no matter what its actual size...

otherwise it becomes another Pi / MiST / MCC / NUC or a damned PC - and they've ALL been done to death

Edited March 27, 2016 by Guest

[kenjennings]

CPU: 32x speed is acceptable, even 16x is enough.

ANTIC: twice the resolution of graphics modes is acceptable. I am also thinking about "bitplanes". For example, a two independent "ANTIC-5 plus" modes (320x192 overall screen resolution). Independent scrolling and 4 colors per char. Can be combined into one bitplan, so it gave us 16 colors for chars.

GTIA: max. 4096 color palette, with a little "twist" - I mean not very accurate representation of RGB, which would bring the "character", which original Atari and other 8-bit computers had. Let's say, 64 colors with 64 shadows.

More sprites. Hi-res sprites! RGB scart or video composite is ok. Yes, CRT does add a lot to nostalgia trip.

POKEY: more channels plus kind of new features for Atari: PWM modulation and two (digital) filters (with LP, HP, BP modes)...

 

Faster CPU, Higher resolution, independent multiple-playfield scrolling, 4096 color palette, half-brite mode, digital samples for audio... Where have I seen that before.... Oh, yes, it's the Amiga.

 

It would be neat to have a modern remake of an 8-bit Atari in an Amiga 1000 pizza box case.