Got a 128D for Christmas, now what...

[KLund1]

Hi,

This is my first commodore computer. I'm an Atari guy. All I know is what I have read with the included manuals. Very good by the way.

I have taken it apart, cleaned it up, reseated some IC's that looked like they were working loose. Cleaned the FDD heads, Cleaned the keyboard.

And that is as far as I got. I have been doing some reading on upgrades, but I'm not sure what is best for a 128D. There is a lot for 128 but a lot less for 128D's.

 

I would like to make it a fairly decked out machine with the most useful upgrades current available., so I have a lot of questions.

 

I have a 1084s monitor. will it work in the 80 column mode? What video cable do I need?

 

It has a metal case, Do I need a fan for the internal PSU. The PSU looks ok, but is there anything I need to worry about in the PSU? The caps are not budging or leaking.

 

Should I get a jiffydos upgrade? is the internal floppy drive as slow as I have herd the 1541 is?

 

Is there anything else like jiffdos for other parts of the system I should be getting. OS upgrade, controllers, interfaces IC's etc?

 

What about a memory upgrade? it has 128K, is it easy to add more? If so how/link?

 

What is the best SD hard drive solution to get software from the internet into the 128D

 

What are the typical must have/usable DOS, utility, diagnostic, application software, and where to get them.

 

Thanks for your help

 

[+OLD CS1]

I will address a few things I can. First, that is a pretty awesome Christmas gift. Very special someone!

 

For the 80 column you will need a 9-pin cable to run from the RGBI port to whatever the input is on your monitor. Some are 9-pin as well, some are DIN.

 

You do not NEED a fan, but I put one in mine, anyway, just for fun.

 

JiffyDOS -- YES!

 

If you are going to run something like GEOS, CP/M+, copy programs, etc. you can get a 512k RAM Expansion Unit (REU) or ones which have been modified to be even bigger, as well as things like geoRAM (GEOS-specific) or the CMD RAM expansions which can give you several mega-bytes without hacking.

 

There are some articles out there on adding more RAM to your 128's motherboard (I think up to 512k,) but I do not believe that many programs can take advantage of that. This would be another "because it's there" kind-of things.

 

Dunno anything about the SD stuff, I am all floppy over here.

 

Must haves for me: DesTerm 128 (telecom, SwiftLink-232-alike optional) GEOS 128 2.0, Zed 128 (great text editor, will use the REU,) CP/M+, CS-DOS, Stereo SID player (with the stereo SID hack or an external SID cart)... all I have off the top of my head. Others here will have much deeper needs and recommendations. If you are going to use GEOS, get a Commodore 1351 mouse. 1581 floppy drive is handy, but with an SD or direct-connect setup you may never need it.

[KLund1]

Thanks for the quick reply

Where might I get REU? A quick look in ebay for commodore 512 ram memory 1764 or 1750 gives not much

Same for a SID cart.

There are amgia mice that look like a 1351, are they the same?

What are some good sites for downloading programs you mention?

[carlsson]

Since you appear to be willing to spin that floppy disk, any of the SD2IEC compatible devices should be useful to you. On the other hand, more expensive devices like 1541 Ultimate would allow even better compatibility, as well have some REU functionality. Normally I'd speak for the cheaper solutions, but since you seem interested in memory expansions, perhaps the 1541U2 is for you anyhow (despite it costs 150 Euros + shipping).

 

Unfortunately, the Amiga mice have the same look as the 1351, but are electrically different. Thus if you see someone selling an "unknown" mouse, ask them to look or take a picture of the underside where there should be a label telling what it is. Some programs like MSSIAH are designed to work with Amiga mice as well, but that is an exception.

[SSG]

Play some games!

[landgraf]

Should I get a jiffydos upgrade? is the internal floppy drive as slow as I have herd the 1541 is?

In C64-mode yes, due to compatibility reasons. In C128-mode the floppy is much faster thanks to burst-mode.

 

Oh, and you should always put a disk into the drive and close the lever to reduce stress on the the 2nd R/W-head - if you leave it open all the time its spring mechanism may wear out.

[+OLD CS1]

Oh, and you should always put a disk into the drive and close the lever to reduce stress on the the 2nd R/W-head - if you leave it open all the time its spring mechanism may wear out.

 

The 1571 has a catch which holds the top head up in the absence of a floppy.

[KLund1]

Play some games!

YES !! but need a way to get them into the machine.

 

 

The 1571 has a catch which holds the top head up in the absence of a floppy.

This is info I need to learn.

Thanks

 

Anything else I need to be aware of about this machine?

[KLund1]

I am also confused about what model I have after reading the 128d section of this wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_128

 

Mine is a metal case with plastic front panel, no handle, but rear badge c128d. But the wiki says the metal case was for C128DCR. My psu has no fan.

Also the MB's have different layouts and IC's specifically the 8563 and 8563VCD. ALso the is something about 1986 ROM's.

I do not have a cable to hook to a monitor yet, so i can't tell from a boot screen.

[krslam]

The CR in 128DCR refers to "cost reduced" but the actual model number wasn't changed. Originally, the machine had separate boards for the computer and drive and came in a plastic case. This model was sold primarily in Europe. The CR version has only one board, came in a metal case, and was mostly sold in North America. Despite the "cost reduced" designation, it's a better unit as it comes with the sturdier case and the VDC RAM was upgraded from 16K to 64K.

[KLund1]

Thanks,

I cracked open the case again, and yes the MB say C128DCR. so it has the better parts. But it is strange that the case badge says C128D, and not C128DCR

Thanks

One thing I saw was that the DOS IC was a 318047-01 DOS $62A0. quick google shows this is not a good one. But a JIffy Dos IC will be replacing it soon.

I pulled out my bag of computer video cables and tried a few and one seems to work with my 1084S. I got it to boot in c64 mode. and those colors are awful, but at least the machine works. It shows about 12000 free ram and 1987 date.

While it was open, I noticed this stuff around the caps bases on the PSU, that I missed before. see pic. It is hard, is this factory applied, or is it a leak?

Next, what do think about this SD solution

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231282942089?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Does it cover the most popular disk image formats? Is there anything I should be looking for.

Again I want to thank you for answering my many questions, and patients with a c64/128 noobie

[carlsson]

Hm, 12000 bytes free in C64 mode and a copyright message that says 1987? That sounds odd.

 

The SD2IEC device you linked to is a regular one, and should be good value for money. Just so you know it won't handle every custom (turbo) loader, but since you've got a floppy drive built in, you can transfer D64 images to real floppy disks whenever you find loading them directly from the image doesn't work.

 

For most purposes, you probably won't have use of a REU, stereo SID etc but if you're keen on getting that functionality from day 1, as I wrote above you might as well check out the capacities of the 1541 Ultimate II before you decide which SD device to order. It costs far more, but with multiple upgrades combined it might be affordable.

[7800fan]

Those are glue to hold caps in place. Generally those won't fail catastopically like some of the later caps like those used in Sega Game Gear.

 

re: awful color, the 1084 has 2 mode for analog input: CVBS and Chroma/Luma (may be different on S model, mine's a P). If you used Luma plug and it is set for CVBS (or composite), it will be missing color. If you used composite plug and it is set for Chroma/Luma, the color will be very washed out.

 

SD2IEC is a cheap way to run disks from internet on your 128 but many games often don't work right or not at all. Many games uses custom fast loader code that expects a real 1541 disk drive, SD2IEC don't quite emulate a 1541 accurately and will break fast load coding and cause the game to fail to load. Ultimate III is what you would need if you want to run only off SD cards but they are not available presently unless someone sells an used one. Or you can get the SD2IEC and use a disk copy utility to transfer disk image from SD card to a real disk in the built-in drive.

 

There are many SD2IEC, they all revolves around the same chip and should work fine. The version with LCD is more expensive and is more for people who likes to flip through multiple disk images and needs the display to keep track of which disk is currently loaded.

 

JiffyDOS (you will need 2, one for 64/128 kernel and one for 1571 drive) is the best investment. Other mod includes adding optional fan to the power supply, there is a mount on the back and a spot for 12v but CBM left it out to save a few dollars per 128 made. It won't hurt and should help make your power supply last longer.

 

The 128DCR generally have 64k video RAM already, so no point in upgrading that. However the 128k RAM can be expanded to 256k or 512k but that is hard core hack and requires custom coding to handle the memory. REU (extermal memory upgrade) can be found on eBay and it will work with a few programs like GEOS but for mostly games, there's no reason to get REU. None of the good games supports any form of expanded memory.

 

Second SID is also a custom solution and is not supported by games.

[KLund1]

Ok then,

Stereo SID not needed, it is out. ... for now...

Memory upgrade hack not needed, 1750/1764 will be looking for but no rush to get.

New video cable needed, 8 pin TTL RGB needed for both 40/80 modes to my 1084S-p monitor, see pic. will a straight thru cable be ok? There are not many in the computer world, but there is a lot in the audio world. I got one of these to try. The SCART option is not available on my 1084.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371510008730?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Y/N ??

 

I will get that SD solution. I got a lot of black 5.25" disks so if I get game/program that will not load from SD I can transfer to FD then load from FD with jiffydos. Suggestions on a good copy program,and where to get it, along with other utility programs .

 

Is there a hard disk for 128d's back in the day? Is there a way to boot from it so I can skip the FD all together?

 

Thanks about the PSU. I did not think it was a problem.

I also have fan that will fit nicely. I will put it in. Good to be cautions about PSU's

 

Anything else I should be on the look out for?...

Thanks again for all the input. !!!!!

[carlsson]

Unfortunately, that cable is entirely wrong for the following reasons:

 

1. The VIC-II output is a 8-pin 262 degree "U" connector, the cable on eBay is a 8-pin 270 degree "C". It might be mendable with gentle force, but I'd not recommend doing that.

2. The VIC-II (40 column mode) only outputs composite and luma + chroma (similar to S-Video)

3. The VDC (80 column mode) outputs RGBI and monochrome composite video through its DE9 connector

 

However it is true that your 1084 inputs RGBI through its 8-pin 270 degree connector, so you'd be able to use one end of the cable...

 

What you could do is buy the cable, cut off one end and solder a DE9 connector after measuring each pin. You would still need a separate cable going from the VIC-II output to the RCA connectors on the monitor, and then use the CVBS/RGB switch to toggle between those.

 

The VDC does not carry the 40 column signal, which is a common misconception about the C128, meaning you can not get e.g. C64 mode in RGB by using it.

 

As for copying program, I'd recommend CBM-Command which is a bit like Norton Commander and generally works with all sorts of devices.

 

Regarding hard drive solutions, there were some but unless you change ROMs in the computer, I'm not sure it would automatically boot. At least in CP/M mode, floppy disks boot automatically, but I can't recall if C128 disks can too. Rather you might be looking for a cartridge that autostarts some menu or whatever software you'd want to load, if you don't want to end up in BASIC every time.

Edited January 5, 2016 by carlsson

[KLund1]

I get it now, thanks.

I need 2 cables, one for 40 mode, 1 for 80 mode.

I contacted here

http://www.oldsoftware.com/cables.html

and they suggested 1 each of the top 2 on that list.

 

Stereo SID not needed.

extra ram not needed unless I can find a 1750 or 1764. I can do minor things to a MB but the 2 major upgrades I've tried in the past have ended up as badly burnt out IC's and melted traces!!

 

Any links to downloadable libraries for C64 programs??

[+wongojack]

Here is a nice JDos option: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-128-switchless-JIFFYDOS-KERNAL-with-clips-NO-DRILLING-/381331960879?hash=item58c927f42f:g:nE4AAOSwDNdVqBMg

[carlsson]

For discussions about where to find software, see e.g. this thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/247527-best-site-for-c64-roms/

[RobertB]

KLund1 wrote:

 

> I need 2 cables, one for 40 mode, 1 for 80 mode.

 

Ray Carlsen can build you those cables for a very good price.

 

As for auto-booting, the C128D will look in drive 8 (your internal disk drive in the C128D), and auto-boot a CP/M disk or a C128 disk (that has a boot block on it). For auto-booting from a hard drive, you would need something like a CMD hard drive. Set CMD hard drive as drive 8; then you'd have to install a drive switch in your C128D in order to turn off its internal disk drive or to change the drive number to 9, 10, or 11. Turn on the CMD hard drive which now is drive 8, and then turn on the C128D with the disk drive now off or as a different drive number. Voila! The C128D auto-boots into the CMD hard drive.

 

> Any links to downloadable libraries for C64 programs??

 

Check out the GEnie libraries at

 

http://cbmfiles.com/genie/index.php

 

And don't forget the new BouderDash 128 beta at

 

https://mega.nz/#!gIwGRTAa!C6eIKN185bxlz39Bg1twV8eXWbf4pNzkDPWujmlskCY

 

the classic, action-packed, C128 80-column game, Alien Invaders. Go to

 

http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Alien_Invaders_for_the_C%3D_128

 

and click on the Download link there.

 

Happy New Year,

Robert Bernardo

Fresno Commodore User Group

http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm