Ever confuse/get confused with classic gaming jargon?

[CatPix]

 

I agree... if your system has composite or better natively out, then that's the way to go. But when it comes to the A/V mods on systems such as the 2600 and 7800, not a day goes by where I don't read someone complaining about their modded Frankenstein system. Jail bars, artifacts, incorrect colors that can't be dialed in, ghosting/bleeding, a sound channel too quiet, stereo mod buzzing, or the mod itself just plain failing and producing no picture at all!

 

'Course, some peoples setups look great with S-video and I too have had modded systems in the past (unhappy with ALL the ones I've tried and ultimately sold them), but think I'll be leaving my RF native systems as RF for as long as I possibly can.

 

As Osgeld said, many artifacts are present into the system from the very moment the signals are generated.

 

If you look at hom the Atari 2600 video signal is generated, you're marveled it even is readable on a TV :

the TIA chip output 3 different luma (black and white) signals that are blended in to make the final luma signal, and a separate chroma.

The problem with video mods 'at least on the Atari 2600 is how well the lumas are blended, then how well the chroma is added (to make a composite out).

 

Some Commodore 64 are know for having poor luma and chroma separation : if you plug the luma signal on a composite input, you will sometime get color! Which prove that even manufacturer themselves can screw up their video out.

 

Anyway, I can understand people that have working functionnal systems not willing to mod them. I was talking about the people that have a system that have A/V out but choose to use the RF out.

Edited January 27, 2016 by CatPix

[Schizophretard]

Anyway, I can understand people that have working functionnal systems not willing to mod them. I was talking about the people that have a system that have A/V out but choose to use the RF out.

 

What about people that have working functional RF only systems that don't want to mod them but choose not to use a VCR to demodulate the signal into composite? The RF interference would still be an issue but they would get the rest of the benefits of composite without modification and VCR's are cheap.

[CatPix]

Well it's a clever solution to adapt RF to TV that might not catch their RF signal as well, or because it's easier to figgle on the back of a VCR than of a TV, especially US TV and their infinite screw plug of boredom. I use that solution myself so my massive 1970's "top loading" VCR have at least a bit of purpose (VHS? what's that crap? )

[Schizophretard]

Well it's a clever solution to adapt RF to TV that might not catch their RF signal as well, or because it's easier to figgle on the back of a VCR than of a TV, especially US TV and their infinite screw plug of boredom. I use that solution myself so my massive 1970's "top loading" VCR have at least a bit of purpose (VHS? what's that crap? )

There are some benefits for consoles with composite already too. For an example, The NES only has mono sound but put through a VCR can split it into right and left speakers. Or if someone has an S-VHS VCR they can hook their NES into that and make it output to S-video. Also, if you are fortunate enough to have maybe a D-VHS VCR or maybe buy a modern combination VCR and DVD recorder it may be possible to output over component video. If any of those combination VCR and DVD recorders accept all inputs while also allowing to output through component then that could be a poor man's way to get all their consoles upgraded to component with no modifications while also being able to record game play onto DVD.

[HoshiChiri]

There are some benefits for consoles with composite already too. For an example, The NES only has mono sound but put through a VCR can split it into right and left speakers. Or if someone has an S-VHS VCR they can hook their NES into that and make it output to S-video. Also, if you are fortunate enough to have maybe a D-VHS VCR or maybe buy a modern combination VCR and DVD recorder it may be possible to output over component video. If any of those combination VCR and DVD recorders accept all inputs while also allowing to output through component then that could be a poor man's way to get all their consoles upgraded to component with no modifications while also being able to record game play onto DVD.

 

On that front, I've been trying to figure out if any of the HDMI-output VCR/DVD recorder combos will output all signals over said HDMI. Most of the manuals make it sound like only DVDs will, even the built-in VCR doesn't. If I could find one that does, I'd love to free up an input for another console (and if any sort of upscaling happens, so much the better!)

[English Invader]

Would running through a VCR with NTSC playback fix any regional issues? i.e. an off-the-shelf original Famicom connected to the VCR RF port and then an RGB scart connection between the VCR and a PAL television?

[Schizophretard]

On that front, I've been trying to figure out if any of the HDMI-output VCR/DVD recorder combos will output all signals over said HDMI. Most of the manuals make it sound like only DVDs will, even the built-in VCR doesn't. If I could find one that does, I'd love to free up an input for another console (and if any sort of upscaling happens, so much the better!)

Are you talking about even the ones that recorder to DVD from VHS? If so then it wouldn't make sense to me that it wouldn't output to HDMI because how could you record your tape of your fifth birthday or whatever to DVD properly if you couldn't even view it on the screen while recording?

[Schizophretard]

Would running through a VCR with NTSC playback fix any regional issues? i.e. an off-the-shelf original Famicom connected to the VCR RF port and then an RGB scart connection between the VCR and a PAL television?

I doubt it because it doesn't change the format. To my understanding it works something like this:

 

My NTSC Atari 2600 I set to channel 3. I also set my VCR's NSTC TV tuner to channel 3. So, my Atari 2600 is being received in the exact same way into my VCR's tuner as it would my TV's tuner. But the difference is that directly into my TV's tuner it shows up on channel 3 without the video and audio separated but through my VCR's it separates it into composite before reaching my TV to show up on my composite video channel instead of channel 3. So, I'm just going from outputting an NTSC signal from RF to composite. In other words, it is just a way to separate my NTSC signal but not change it to another.

[HoshiChiri]

Are you talking about even the ones that recorder to DVD from VHS? If so then it wouldn't make sense to me that it wouldn't output to HDMI because how could you record your tape of your fifth birthday or whatever to DVD properly if you couldn't even view it on the screen while recording?

Those are the ones... my sticking point is in the manuals where they explain how to hook up your deck. On the hdmi page they all say 'dvd only'... and I can't figure out if that means no picture from the VCR, or if the manual writers are confusing hdmi with high-def and trying to say it won't upscale the vhs. Even if you know what the terms mean, you can still get caught on the jargon!

[CatPix]

Would running through a VCR with NTSC playback fix any regional issues? i.e. an off-the-shelf original Famicom connected to the VCR RF port and then an RGB scart connection between the VCR and a PAL television?

 

No VCR I know output RGB; they use SCART but the signal is composite, or at the very best, S-Video. Plus, the internal tuner of most VCR you'll find will be PAL, maybe PAL/SECAM or MESECAM (where have you been?).

I guess you mgiht have a chance to find a NTSC VCR as some people would import US movies. If they have A/V out then yeah, you'll be able to get NTSC RF consoles working in your setup.

 

As for "upscaling" the video.. It mgiht be worth a try, but keep in mind that those items are designed for video, not video gaming. so theyre might be up to half a second or even a second of lag between the input and the output. It's not important for movies video, because as long as the video and sound are synced, upscaling lag doesn't matter. but for video gaming, it can go from midly annoying 'SMB) to impossible to play. (any shooter).

Edited January 27, 2016 by CatPix

[Osgeld]

RGB is wayyyyy too much bandwidth for a consumer tape, so therefore if you DO see one its probally only for passthough of a RGB signal, as the VCR was pretty much the ultimate switchbox of its time where spade lug 300 ohm antenna MACHINE SCREWS was the only way into a TV

 

now most modern TV's ie flatscreens will jump from pal to ntsc or vice versa in a hartbeat, my stupid 22 inch TCL refuses 240P component, but will take PAL composite from a freaking arduino which is no where near dead on spec ... stupid TV's

[Schizophretard]

Those are the ones... my sticking point is in the manuals where they explain how to hook up your deck. On the hdmi page they all say 'dvd only'... and I can't figure out if that means no picture from the VCR, or if the manual writers are confusing hdmi with high-def and trying to say it won't upscale the vhs. Even if you know what the terms mean, you can still get caught on the jargon!

 

Them I'm unsure about the up-scaling and outputting from HDMI though the player but to my understanding there are ones that do output over component. For an example, here is a 2nd video in a two part series of a guy explaining how to hook up retro video game systems. The first one goes through the obvious things like choosing composite and S-video when possible as the output from the console but this second one covers about getting them to component with a DVD recorder:

 

[AceHart]

I get bothered by the misuse of the word "download". All the time I get people telling me they "downloaded" a file TO something. Sometimes I even get confused and think they really are downloading, and the conversation doesn't make any sense until I realize they actually mean "upload".

[zaneiken]

I've seen some people on local Facebook buy/sell groups refer to N64 analog thumbsticks as "toggles", which I've never heard before.

[Professor Gull]

Xbox Original = "Brick"

Xbox 360 = "360"

Xbox One = "ex bone"

My gaming buddies and I started saying this so we could keep stuff straight between the 3 versions out. That way when we are out looking for games or hunting and we see something its easy to text and tell the difference.

 

Some other pet names.

Sega Genesis = "Genny or Jenny"

Atari 2600 = "Woody 26"

Atari 7800 = "7800"

NES = "any s"

SNES = "snez"

Atari Jaguar = "The Jag" or "Jag"

 

Just to try to keep things straight.