More to First Generation gaming than Pong ?

[sut]

I own a PC-50x system and most of the games, it's nice to see some variation in game style as the first generation is normally just wrote off as Pong.

There is also the Telstar Arcade which seems to offer some variety to Pong (would like to get hold of one of those).

And of course the original console Odyssey tried to change things up a bit but seemed to require outside assistance such as board game pieces and overlays.

 

I suppose discrete logic arcade games are first generation console cousins so the DICE emulator could be used for further first gen fun.

 

So should the first generation be dismissed as Pong or is there more to it than the iconic bat and ball ?

[CatPix]

There is more than that than Pong indeed.

All the PC-50X carts prove it, as well as the Telstar arcade; but also the Mattel Electronics handhelds (or are those Second Genrartion already? The first one is form 1976, so it could be)

And this is considering the console side of it. There were also the arcade games.

Saying that the First gen is Pong is just a short way to qualify that gen, such as saying the the second generation is Atari and the third one is the NES. It's a way that peopel use to identify it, but it doesn't mean that there was only that at the time.

[Flojomojo]

There were also shooting galleries. What else?

[BassGuitari]

If we're talking about first generation consoles exclusively, we're probably going to be talking about dedicated consoles that almost invariably ran some version of Pong, all of which were built in. IMO the PC-50x would fall under Second Generation for the sole reason that it uses cartridges.

If we're talking about the early/mid 1970s period before stuff like the Atari or Odyssey 2 really took off, then yeah, there was a lot more going on than is normally thought of. There were arcade games like Tank, Breakout, Gunfight, and others that would later not only be ported to the new home consoles but also be their bread and butter for their first couple of years. LED handheld games were huge, and people with access to computers could play games like Adventure, Hammurabi, or any of the innumerable Trek games. Computer games tended to be dry, overly cerebral text-based strategy or puzzle games, but they nevertheless proved computers could be used for more than problem solving and data storage.

[CatPix]

Isn't the second generation defined not only by the use of cartridges (which would put the Odyssey under the Second generation as well) but also by the use of a microprocessor and a ROM stored program too? (which would then include the Telstar Arcade in, but as it's 1977 we're in it anyway)

The PC-50* is just Pong chips on removable PCB.

Consoles likes the interton Video 2000 and the Philips Tele-Spiel are analog systems, but they use carts too. I do'nt think they are considered second generation as well.

 

 

Edit : as defined by Wikipedia :

Some features that distinguished second generation consoles from first generation consoles include:

• Microprocessor-based game logic.
• AI simulation of computer-based opponents, allowing for single-player gaming
• ROM cartridges for storing games, allowing any number of different games to be played on one console.
• Game playfields able to span multiple flip-screen areas.
• Blocky and simplistic-looking sprites, with a screen resolution of around 160 × 192 pixels
• Basic color graphics, generally between 2-color (1-bit) and 16-color (4-bit).
• Up to three channel audio.
• Lacked features of third-generation consoles, such as scrolling tile-based playfields.

Edited January 17, 2016 by CatPix

[sut]

I would agree with the classification of PC-50x systems as first generation. They are Pong on a cartridge, it was a neat idea to save consumers buying a new system every time they wanted a different game but the console itself is just a pass through system.

 

I also have a Channel F and find it definitely a leap ahead of the PC-50x. Not just for the ROM cartridges but the single player AI aspect.

 

Did the the Telstar Arcade ever leave NA ? Or perhaps cloned in Europe which seemed to be the case for early systems.

 

The first and second generation eras were definitely Wild West frontiers and pretty tricky to research.

 

There doesn't seem to be much of a emulation scene (probably more simulation as we are talking none CPU systems) for the first generation.

A MESS style emulator which simulates the different Pong chips and the Odyssey would be fantastic for historical and preservation purposes.

[CatPix]

I never heard or seen of a Telstar Arcade being released in Europe. I only know of this system what I could pick up from photos and websites. I wish I had one, tho, but it's getting expensive.. and not going down any time soon I think

I think that the Telstar didn't get an European release because of the ubiquity of PC-50* systems. Why would you buy a more bulky and expen sive system (even if it was very cool looking ) when you had one that offered more games for cheaper?

I suppose it's the main reason, or one reason, since other Telstar console were released in Europe... the most amazing one IMO being the Meccano (Erector for the US) rebranding

 

 

Really, everyone and his mother at the time relabeled Pong systems

Edited January 17, 2016 by CatPix

[mbd30]

[BassGuitari]

 

Isn't the second generation defined not only by the use of cartridges (which would put the Odyssey under the Second generation as well) but also by the use of a microprocessor and a ROM stored program too? (which would then include the Telstar Arcade in, but as it's 1977 we're in it anyway)

The PC-50* is just Pong chips on removable PCB.

Consoles likes the interton Video 2000 and the Philips Tele-Spiel are analog systems, but they use carts too. I do'nt think they are considered second generation as well.

 

 

Edit : as defined by Wikipedia :

Some features that distinguished second generation consoles from first generation consoles include:

• Microprocessor-based game logic.
• AI simulation of computer-based opponents, allowing for single-player gaming
• ROM cartridges for storing games, allowing any number of different games to be played on one console.
• Game playfields able to span multiple flip-screen areas.
• Blocky and simplistic-looking sprites, with a screen resolution of around 160 × 192 pixels
• Basic color graphics, generally between 2-color (1-bit) and 16-color (4-bit).
• Up to three channel audio.
• Lacked features of third-generation consoles, such as scrolling tile-based playfields.

 

I knew someone would bring up the Odyssey. The Odyssey wouldn't be a Second Generation console because it's Game Cards aren't cartridges. They contain no data or circuitry. The logic for every Odyssey game is in the console itself; the Game Cards are more like jumpers or keys and serve the same function as toggle switches on later units.

 

FWIW there are "second generation" systems that don't necessarily fulfill all those Wikipedia criteria, some of which are arbitrary and subjective anyway ("blocky and simplistic-looking sprites?" That could describe anything up to the 3D era.), but I agree that the microprocessor is the big one there. At least in that sense, it could be argued that the PC-50x isn't Second Generation hardware if it doesn't have a CPU (admittedly I'm not that familiar with it). Maybe 1.5 Gen?

 

But I don't want to get too far off the rails with this because at the bottom of it, what we're really getting to is the dreaded "Generation Debate." And nobody wants that.

[CatPix]

Yeah, some points of this Wiki list are too precise or vague. The RCA Studio II have a CPU, but no colors and a resolution lower than the 160*192 mentionned so, meh.

To me, Gen II is based on CPU and removable cartridge containing ROM.

I brough the Odyssey because while the Game Cards aren't real games, they introduced the idea of games being tied on something you put in the system to play any game, so cartridges aren't a Gen II charateristic. Else, all G&W style of games released by Tiger and others up to like, 1995 would be Gen I games.

As I mentionned, the Philps TeleSpiel and Interton Video 2000 have games made of TTL logic circuits, so they aren't Pong chips, but not ROM and CPU games either, so those are Gen I consoles too, and they have carts.

Edited January 18, 2016 by CatPix

[cvga]

There's a stand alone Video Pinball and stand alone Stunt Cycle that I would consider first generation.

[CatPix]

Stunts Cycle is I assume the Motrocycle game on the PC-50* consoles, so that's first gen.

Video Pinball is apaprently based on the same Pong on a Chip design, so that would put it in First Gen as well.

[RJ]

Yep I was just about to say Stunt Cycle.

[Blazing Lazers]

<p>

 

Isn't the second generation defined not only by the use of cartridges (which would put the Odyssey under the Second generation as well) but also by the use of a microprocessor and a ROM stored program too? (which would then include the Telstar Arcade in, but as it's 1977 we're in it anyway)

The PC-50* is just Pong chips on removable PCB.

Consoles likes the interton Video 2000 and the Philips Tele-Spiel are analog systems, but they use carts too. I do'nt think they are considered second generation as well.

 

 

Edit : as defined by Wikipedia :

Some features that distinguished second generation consoles from first generation consoles include:

• Microprocessor-based game logic.
• AI simulation of computer-based opponents, allowing for single-player gaming
• ROM cartridges for storing games, allowing any number of different games to be played on one console.
• Game playfields able to span multiple flip-screen areas.
• Blocky and simplistic-looking sprites, with a screen resolution of around 160 × 192 pixels
• Basic color graphics, generally between 2-color (1-bit) and 16-color (4-bit).
• Up to three channel audio.
• Lacked features of third-generation consoles, such as scrolling tile-based playfields.

I can confirm the Telstar Arcade had an Australian PAL release, as I bought a unit from over there that turned outto be a PAL version. Australian Ebay also has Telstar Arcade units and games from time to time. Funny thing about all this was it was only after I sold the unit to a fellow AA'er here that I discovered I'd owned such a rarit, as I hadn't ever gotten around to testing it or opening it up, and the new owner did.

[CatPix]

Note that I said "Europe" not that I dismiss Australia as not being part of the PAL market, but they had a special market of their own, that saw things we didn't get in Continental Europe (and probably also missed things we got).

But it's a very interesting testimony!

[borntorun]

^{Coleco Telstar Combat is pretty cool, too}

[sut]

So excluding the Odyssey, arcade and LED games for a minute let's have a run down of available games for first generation home consoles.

 

1). Pong and it's various iterations Tennis, Hockey, Squash, etc.

 

2). Breakout games, Super Wipeout, etc.

 

3). Stunt Cycle, Motor Cycle

 

4). Tank, Combat, etc.

 

5). GP Race, Road Race, etc, some seem vertical (PC-50x) some seem horizontal (Telstar Arcade) but appear to be the same game

 

6). Submarine

 

7). Shooting Gallery, some seem blocks some enhanced to large pixel men (Telstar Arcade)

 

. Video Pinball standalone system only ?

 

Am I missing anything ?

[PhileasJWhoopie]

@Sut - nice to see a friend from VGC.com.

 

The Atari Video Pinball unit has a form of basketball, where you bounce the vertically bouncing ball on a horizontal paddle and use a button to shoot into a hoop. Its a single player game only, as every game on that console is.

 

The Odyssey 4000 also has a basketball game but the ball traverses horizontally against a vertical paddle to direct it into a basket. You can play one person (practice) or two players, with the standard variants on paddle sizes.

 

There is also 'gridball' - its another pong variant, but more like 'foos'pong. Two opponents of interlaced sets of bars they control, with the bars having holes in them to try to bounce the ball into the goal. Very much like foosball, or table soccer, or whatever it might be called in the UK.

 

The Video Pinball console has 2 variants of pinball. One where you use a standard pong paddle, like 'pong'ball, but the other you use the side buttons and flippers, more like pinball. That console is a lot of fun, and one of the first my family had. Nothing says 70s like woodgrain.

Edited April 14, 2016 by PhileasJWhoopie