Ultimate Cart - Users thread

[GoldenGraham]

I have an 800xl.  Is shere any point in me installing this upgraded firmware into my ultimate cart?

[_The Doctor__]

Yes there is. It appears to be more stable  in my experience. I use a number of add-ons, other carts that stack and the like. I didn't do a run down of what changed, I just know it now works all the time (basically 99.999% as opposed to 98% of the time) , no matter what configuration things are in.

[spspspsp]

7 hours ago, spspspsp said:

Does this patch also incorporate the bus contention fix described here and available here?

Actually, I see that these patches are very similar, but the address ranges are slightly different ($8000-$9FFF here in this thread, but $8000-$BFFF in the other thread I linked).

 

Which is correct?

[_The Doctor__]

@Faicuai , @Vigo perhaps the two of you can get together on this. I am not sure which I used. Faicuai verified operation on his real machine last I knew.

[+Faicuai]

On 5/4/2020 at 9:49 PM, spspspsp said:

Actually, I see that these patches are very similar, but the address ranges are slightly different ($8000-$9FFF here in this thread, but $8000-$BFFF in the other thread I linked).

 

Which is correct?

Sorry for taking so long to catch this one...

 

...But this link will take you to the correct load for Ultimate/SD (effectively fixing bus-contention on $8000-$9FFF, only revealed when operating Ultimate/SD on 800's dual-cart bus:

 

 

I would recommend the above fix regardless if you run (or not) the cart on a 800.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Faicuai

[tane]

Hi @Faicuai :

 

There is a problem reported between the Firmware of the Ultimate Cart and the 512kb Memory Expansion developed by the user tf_hh, specifically the version 4.4 of the hardware. The situation is the following:

• If everything work as expected, the Memory should be automatically detected when turning on the Atari, and it should work with any Cart.
• However, the version 4.4 of the hardware doesn't work properly with a stock Ultimate Cart (it has not been tested with the new firmware). The developer stated that the Memory works properly with other carts, and also there was a change since the version 4.2, regarding addresses that were causing trouble. The version 4.2 works fine with the Ultimate Cart, and it's not documented what addresses were changed in the version 4.4.
• The developer of the Memory stated that his hardware v4.4 is a "state of the art" device, and the problem lies in the Firmware of the Ultimate Cart.
• He also suggested to test the memory with a SIO device, in order to see if the problem is the Ultimate Cart or the Memory. But due to current logistics problems, it hasn't been possible to get a SIO device in order to make a test.
• There are some videos showing such behavior of the Ultimate Cart and the Memory Expansions, in post #183 and #187 of the hardware topic.

The problem seems to be the addresses that are being used by both devices.

 

Any idea what could be the problem in the Ultimate Cart regarding its addresses?

 

Personally without any technical knowledge of both devices, the developer of the Memory Expansion is heavily stating that the problem lies in the Firmware of the Ultimate Cart.

 

 

[+Faicuai]

1 hour ago, tane said:

Hi @Faicuai :

 

There is a problem reported between the Firmware of the Ultimate Cart and the 512kb Memory Expansion developed by the user tf_hh, specifically the version 4.4 of the hardware. The situation is the following:

• If everything work as expected, the Memory should be automatically detected when turning on the Atari, and it should work with any Cart.
• However, the version 4.4 of the hardware doesn't work properly with a stock Ultimate Cart (it has not been tested with the new firmware). The developer stated that the Memory works properly with other carts, and also there was a change since the version 4.2, regarding addresses that were causing trouble. The version 4.2 works fine with the Ultimate Cart, and it's not documented what addresses were changed in the version 4.4.
• The developer of the Memory stated that his hardware v4.4 is a "state of the art" device, and the problem lies in the Firmware of the Ultimate Cart.
• He also suggested to test the memory with a SIO device, in order to see if the problem is the Ultimate Cart or the Memory. But due to current logistics problems, it hasn't been possible to get a SIO device in order to make a test.
• There are some videos showing such behavior of the Ultimate Cart and the Memory Expansions, in post #183 and #187 of the hardware topic.

The problem seems to be the addresses that are being used by both devices.

 

Any idea what could be the problem in the Ultimate Cart regarding its addresses?

 

Personally without any technical knowledge of both devices, the developer of the Memory Expansion is heavily stating that the problem lies in the Firmware of the Ultimate Cart.

 

 

Hi there!

 

I don't own / use tf_hh's 512 KB expansion, although I do own his (great) SysCheck-II board, which does come with 512 KB of on-board RAM.

 

The problem described above could be initially (and quickly) traced provided two known sets of info:

 

1. HW-registers map in use by Ultimate/SD Cart (for both pre-boot / in-menu and post-boot / emulation modes).

2. HW-registers map in use by tf_hh's expansion.

 

I do know (factually) that Ultimate/SD actively uses $D510 (for FPGA command-in control) and and $AFF0 for FPGA status-out purposes (which I am using on my own Control-Extensions for this cart). Other than that, I have been wanting to know myself (for sure) what other HW registers may be also used by Ultimate/SD, at different operational stages.

 

Having said that, if SysCheck-II on-board's RAM expansion behaves identically to the one you mention, and also maps to the same HW-registers set, then I may be able to test on my end... but keep in mind that I will be testing on U1MB-equipped XLs and Incognito-equipped 800's via PBI bus.

[tane]

1 hour ago, Faicuai said:

Having said that, if SysCheck-II on-board's RAM expansion behaves identically to the one you mention, and also maps to the same HW-registers set, then I may be able to test on my end... but keep in mind that I will be testing on U1MB-equipped XLs and Incognito-equipped 800's via PBI bus.

It's known that Memory Expansion v4.2 and v4.4 are different, so nothing guarantees that SysCheck will behave the same.

 

1 hour ago, Faicuai said:

I don't own / use tf_hh's 512 KB expansion, although I do own his (great) SysCheck-II board, which does come with 512 KB of on-board RAM.

 

The problem described above could be initially (and quickly) traced provided two known sets of info:

 

1. HW-registers map in use by Ultimate/SD Cart (for both pre-boot / in-menu and post-boot / emulation modes).

2. HW-registers map in use by tf_hh's expansion.

 

I do know (factually) that Ultimate/SD actively uses $D510 (for FPGA command-in control) and and $AFF0 for FPGA status-out purposes (which I am using on my own Control-Extensions for this cart). Other than that, I have been wanting to know myself (for sure) what other HW registers may be also used by Ultimate/SD, at different operational stages.

 

I can't provide information about HW-registers. Maybe @tf_hh could add a technical detail about the Memory Expansions, in order to have a smooth firmware for the Ultimate Cart that is compatible with other hardware expansions.

 

[spspspsp]

23 hours ago, Faicuai said:

...But this link will take you to the correct load for Ultimate/SD (effectively fixing bus-contention on $8000-$9FFF, only revealed when operating Ultimate/SD on 800's dual-cart bus:

So the $8000-$BFFF patch is incomplete? That is the patch I currently have applied.

[+Faicuai]

16 hours ago, spspspsp said:

So the $8000-$BFFF patch is incomplete? That is the patch I currently have applied.

FYI:

 

Tried two (2) revised versions of firmware-loads for Ultimate/SD and the ONLY one that allows booting a right-cart with Ultimate/SD plugged as left-cart is the version that I pointed to.

 

Not sure exactly what is the issue you are chasing, but if you want to address the problem mentioned above, the link I provided solves it.

 

Cheers!

Edited May 13, 2020 by Faicuai

[+tf_hh]

On 5/12/2020 at 6:59 PM, Faicuai said:

2. HW-registers map in use by tf_hh's expansion.

 

Look here:

 

[sprazzi]

I have a question:

what about .atr and .bas files?

can they be loaded into this cart and played? (in a 800XL to be precise)

Thanks

Edited May 14, 2020 by sprazzi
grammar

[mimo]

On 5/14/2020 at 8:13 AM, sprazzi said:

I have a question:

what about .atr and .bas files?

can they be loaded into this cart and played? (in a 800XL to be precise)

Thanks

There is no atr support on this cart

[chuckcaley]

My new case. I have modified the final version so it fits better in an 800xl.

Edited May 15, 2020 by chuckcaley

[GoldenGraham]

Hi, I'm looking for an XEX rom download of this game 'Crypts Of Terror' for the Ultimate Cart in my 800xl. Enjoyed this game a lot back in the 80s but can't find file format anywhere that's compatible with my Ultimate Cart. I've tried the conversion tools too without any joy.  Supported file formats are CAR, XEX, ROM and BIN.  If anyone knows of a download of any on these formats anywhere or can create one for me or advise how to create/convert one that works with the Ultimate Cart, ideally XEX format, that would be fab.

[bfollowell]

1 hour ago, GoldenGraham said:

Hi, I'm looking for an XEX rom download of this game 'Crypts Of Terror' for the Ultimate Cart in my 800xl. Enjoyed this game a lot back in the 80s but can't find file format anywhere that's compatible with my Ultimate Cart. I've tried the conversion tools too without any joy.  Supported file formats are CAR, XEX, ROM and BIN.  If anyone knows of a download of any on these formats anywhere or can create one for me or advise how to create/convert one that works with the Ultimate Cart, ideally XEX format, that would be fab.

If you're talking about Crypts of Terror from Inhome Software, you won't find any of those formats available. It was a BASIC game released on disk or cassette. The only way it may possibly work is if someone wrapped it in some sort of loader software as an xex maybe, but I'm not sure if anyone has ever done anything like that for BASIC games.

[ascrnet]

Does anyone have the cable and the desire to test?🙄
to see if it is possible to add more CAR support 😅

[ijor]

Does it support SpartaDos X pass through logic? So that you could mount another image (virtually) "on top" of the SDX image, and fall back to, say, Basic XE as you would do in real hardware with real BXE and SDX carts.

[flashjazzcat]

No. You'll need SIDE3 for that.

[tmp]

 

[ijor]

3 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

No. You'll need SIDE3 for that.

 

Thanks @flashjazzcat . But I understand this is only a firmware (and software) limitation, right? Seems the hardware should be capable to support SDX (virtual) pass through.

[ijor]

Very nice @tmp . Good job, seems very powerful. I wasn't aware about AVG CART.

 

But I understand AVG CART is not open source like Ultimate Cart, is it?

 

Also, if you don't mind, I find the video a little bit confusing regarding the operation of this feature. Do you select a secondary (connected to SDX pass through) cartridge from the AVG CART menu? What I find it confusing is the presence of the [email protected] file in the D1: directory. I would expect the cartridge image not to be visible to SDX at all. Or that file image was there just by chance without a direct relation to loading Action?

Edited December 19, 2020 by ijor

[flashjazzcat]

13 minutes ago, ijor said:

 

Thanks @flashjazzcat . But I understand this is only a firmware (and software) limitation, right? Seems the hardware should be capable to support SDX (virtual) pass through.

Almost certainly, but things like maintaing the system clock (used by SDX for file time stamps, etc) without having to manually set the date and time at every boot on any cartridge which lacks a battery could be a confounding challenge.

Edited December 19, 2020 by flashjazzcat

[tmp]

7 minutes ago, ijor said:

Very nice @tmp . Good job, seems very powerful. I wasn't aware about AVG CART.

 

But I understand AVG CART is not open source like Ultimate Cart, is it?

correct, it is not

7 minutes ago, ijor said:

Also, if you don't mind, I find the video a little bit confusing regarding the operation of this feature. Do you select a secondary (connected to SDX pass through) cartridge from the AVG CART menu? What I find it confusing is the presence of the [email protected] file in the D1: directory. I would expect the cartridge image not to be visible to SDX at all. Or that file image was there just by chance without a direct relation to loading Action?

my random videos are always confusing although this one had at least some description (that is not visible when embedded)

 

Quote

 

Stock machine, both SDX and the stacked cart (Action!) emulated by AVGCART

D1: is FAT32 on SD card

CTRL-SHIFT-ENTER used to run Action! stacked with SDX

 

 

the reason you saw ACTION CAR was that sdx was seeing the same directory as the avgcart browser (same fat32 partition on sd card)

this is all W(N)IP so the final behavior is still subject to change

[ijor]

34 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Almost certainly, but things like maintaing the system clock (used by SDX for file time stamps, etc) without having to manually set the date and time at every boot on any cartridge which lacks a battery could be a confounding challenge.

 

You are correct, of course, but I don't see how this is related to pass through cart support.  Well, except that you obviously can't fully emulate stacking an R-Time-8 cartridge, if that's what you mean.