_The Doctor__ Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Fun fact... a certain play tester... and enthusiast... helped that bird leave the nest... it might have stayed and been toyed with forever.... but it was agreed to let the bird leave the nest ...... and what a beautiful bird it is! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Real life is the main problem. Then there are other virtual distractions such as discussing it all on here, Facebook, reading the news, other hobbies etc. Lack of skills was mentioned, yes, for certain people a little bit. I do think though that if you have the skill to code a demo, you can code a game, it'll just take longer than someone else to do it. It's not like the LDA's and STA's are that different, it just requires skills like knowing how hard to set the difficulty, how to structure a game (something which nobody ever talks about) and so forth. Indeed it is. Not to mention being laid up sick in bed for a week, missing work, and not wanting to do anything but hug a pillow and sleep for days. That was me. Plus, I got a music project going at the moment too, but I haven't forgotten your projects. I am going to work in some more graphic design in my off days, I hope. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARIO130XE Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 Thank you guys, for joining this lil talk. It's very interesting to read about all the possible reasons to keep projects unnfinished. I think some really good reasons are 'Real Life' and 'Skills' because Thats exactly MY reasons. Yepp .. back in the late 90's I was starting two game projects. No conversions. Just new stuff. But after finnishing graphics, some sounds and working on the game engine, I have realized I am lack of skillz. My games was coded in turbobasic so I had to stop anything because I could not deal with my limits. It's frustrating when you try to add good effects, and the game always slow down like hell. Okay, here are 2 screenshos of the games. Maybe they can make you laugh. I am laughing my ass off after all the time. Nobody want to release a game, which you do not like yourself. Anyway, I like the words from Harvey. I liked the demo of Super Mario jumping around - showing how a jumping character should look and handle - but I don't expect anyone to convert this game across to the A8 hardware. I personally think there is no need to do so - because of the excellent NES and other emulators around. But it would be nice to see a new platform game for the A8 - which is some kind of update of the platform game with new twists and turns present....Harvey It's always hard to make a good conversion. Nobody want to release a game like 'BROS' of Kemal Ezcan and get all the bad reactions, especially from people that never have coded.But what, if coders would use the engines and artists would make new graphics, new level design, new specials new sound and so on to make awesome new games? I think, that's the way how good games like sam's journey on C64 was born. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Hey Mario at least the two look good. Why not you open a topic for them with the files and listing? Maybe someone is interested in helping or if don't have time can finish them. By the way if you could post real size .png taken from an emulator I would like to have a better look on them . Thanks. Edited March 5, 2016 by José Pereira 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Mario130XE, that looks promising no doubt that can be very useful...some very good people here have take works such as this and combed thru them converting and optimizing putting certain things into asm and cutting the code down over and over again until it becomes quite fast.... I am confident that if you put you vision together the way you want, even if it slows down a bit, some brilliant coder here will help make that a reality at full speed or find a compromise that's so good you won't have any trouble with it! Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) My games was coded in turbobasic so I had to stop anything because I could not deal with my limits. It's frustrating when you try to add good effects, and the game always slow down like hell. That's the point, and the answer to the Thread's question. People started doing programs, aiming too much available powers into the A8. That's why PoP will never see the light as in that thread has been spoken of. Also, a Scroller that uses almost all cpu time is good, if you have some additional sprites around, handling the face of the sprite with just a poke, set the x pos with just a poke and the y pos with just a poke. But after you got a great looking scroller on the screen, you'd also have to create a software sprite engine which uses all CPU time to look also great. So You'd need 2 CPUs to have a game fully running. The PMg allows only to have the X position with one poke changed.... What that means is clear: You can have a "Downfall" game , looking very marvellous, because of the easy usable vertical splits. But, you cannot do that horizontally and neither do fluent animation on all moving objects. Project-M, even able of showing 20fps... the technique doesn't allow to put moving objects to it. It would work, if people decided to use a "simple gr.9" Background and overlay it with "on the fly " coded PM Objects. And so on. If people think, My writings want to pull a thread down, that's their fault. I always tried to explain, what you have to expect and to keep the expectations low , so you're able to get what you wanted to reach there, and , if the result gets even better.... well ... would be nice. Btw: Some people state that Electraglide is technically better than Pole Position. Edited March 5, 2016 by emkay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) One day and I personally don't call it dead but has reasons for the stop and aren't related to the machine c.p.u. and that isn't possible like Emkay is saying. Prince of Persia is a big work and persons lifes means that sometimes has to stop for some time but like others there maybe more done then what was posted... I will be happy and proud to one day dedicate PoP game 'finally' done to Emkay. Edited March 5, 2016 by José Pereira 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 P.s.- And by the way is Elektraglide with a k. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Mario... the RPG looks good? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 P.s.- And by the way is Elektraglide with a k. Hey, you're right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 How about a thread: " What the Atari could easily do, and what not " , to have coders given some advice where to start from, if they don't know about the possibilities? So people could easier check their ideas if their project will work or not? For example: Patience. Take in account that Space Harrier took nine years to be completed. And it was worth that long wait. Space Harrier solved the CPU problem, using the double scanline mode. No chance to get anywhere close with single scanline modes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco Catrin Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Well, Prince of Persia moved past beyond some graphics ideas and an awesome intro. My latest update was in September 2015 with backgrounds rendering from the original maps, double buffered animated software sprites and awesome graphics provided by artists in this forum. At least until this point, the game is doable even when some people like emkay say it is not. For the way that PoP renders the backgrounds I wasn't sure that the masking would be fast enough, but it was. Each coder have different reasons to project stagnation, and I share some things that have been said here. All projects are fun an fascinating at the beginning, when you are doing a lot of new stuff, seeing how what you had in mind becomes something real. Once that is done, the amazingness curve starts to flatten and it requires more push to get the project going.. then real life adds more breaks to it. In my personal case, I had two personal projects in that state, one was PoP and the other one was RetroBoxTV which I was developing since 2012 with a commercial version "almost finished". Then from September I was decided that I needed to finish RBXTV and it went public in December 2015. I was really focused in RetroBoxTV and my "normal work" that I didn't realized how I ended working from 10AM to 4AM seven days a week. Surely I wouldn't look at PoP in that time if I wanted to get RBTV out. Then real life triggered in. After 15 years of marriage my wife asked me for divorce this January, and then all my priorities changed. I looked back and realized that she was right and I was wrong. My plan didn't change at all in any case, I only reorganized my life when she was gone. It's a bit of risky but I choose the RBXTV path and dropped some normal work. As things have developed I believe that RBTV will allow me to do only the things that I like, and that includes Prince of Persia in the near future. In my case, it's not about the code or technical difficulties, it's just a matter of balance between work and life, and priorities. I love what I've done in Prince of Persia, and I would love it even if it only showed one screen with no sprites, but today is not the time to work on it if I want to have a good life in the next years. PS: My wife came back two weeks ago, I have a second chance. I will not screw it this time. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco Catrin Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Okay, here are 2 screenshos of the games. Maybe they can make you laugh. I am laughing my ass off after all the time. RoleDemo.png CarMan.png Nobody want to release a game, which you do not like yourself. It doesn't make me laugh, I think that those graphics are fine. May be you are being too critical with your own work. If I were you, I would take the learning of skills needed as a project in itself. Learn some asm, it is not so hard in these days if you have the will to do it, then come back to your game and bring it to life again! If you think that you need more help, here in AA there are people that work that way (José Pereira is the first one to come to mind) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiqMat Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) RoleDemo Thank you guys, for joining this lil talk. It's very interesting to read about all the possible reasons to keep projects unnfinished. I think some really good reasons are 'Real Life' and 'Skills' because Thats exactly MY reasons. Yepp .. back in the late 90's I was starting two game projects. No conversions. Just new stuff. But after finnishing graphics, some sounds and working on the game engine, I have realized I am lack of skillz. My games was coded in turbobasic so I had to stop anything because I could not deal with my limits. It's frustrating when you try to add good effects, and the game always slow down like hell. Okay, here are 2 screenshos of the games. Maybe they can make you laugh. I am laughing my ass off after all the time. RoleDemo.png CarMan.png Nobody want to release a game, which you do not like yourself. Anyway, I like the words from Harvey. It's always hard to make a good conversion. Nobody want to release a game like 'BROS' of Kemal Ezcan and get all the bad reactions, especially from people that never have coded.But what, if coders would use the engines and artists would make new graphics, new level design, new specials new sound and so on to make awesome new games? I think, that's the way how good games like sam's journey on C64 was born. RoleDemo looks great. Looking forward to your Summer 2017 release. Edited March 5, 2016 by LiqMat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 PS: My wife came back two weeks ago, I have a second chance. I will not screw it this time. That is really fantastic news. Seriously so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirx Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 @Franco What a story, man! Keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) PS: My wife came back two weeks ago, I have a second chance. I will not screw it this time. Good decision, for both of you. As I'm roman catholic, I'm at the point that people shouldn't play with that part of life. And, well, it's still the problem with "free" time to do things hobbywise. To help people using their sparetime in doing stuff on such an old computer, it is highly recommended to show what's possible and what not. And what's missing, and what not. It's the worst case, people spent a lot time in a project and getting to the point where it all ends up by wrong predictions. So , a project on the A8, that is possible in "free time" is satisfying to the programmer and , if the project fills the gap in a missing genre, it's als nice to the community. Edited March 6, 2016 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 From my point of view it's mostly about lack of time. Real job and family obligations take so much of each day. If ten years ago someone told me I won't be able to reserve an hour a day for retro coding, I would tell him he's full of sh... Work, family, renovating house, private projects for some extra income - unfortunately they all have higher priorities than retro coding. I've tried getting up earlier to work on my projects, tried to work in middle of the day at the office, tried working in separate bedroom at home ... Everything worked couple times, but never all the time Something on a good side is that I can see light at the end of tunnel. Less commute, more space at new home, less diapers Think I'll be able to finish couple games before time for retirement comes To all coders out there: keep up the good work! Nothing like a game that took a decade to be finished ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Pop.... You know what I am waiting for 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 tried to work in middle of the day at the office, Everything worked couple times, but never all the time I've been in that position, whereby I've taken my hobby to work. I didn't do it in worktime, but if I was using a car that day, I'd keep a laptop in the car and work on the project at lunchtime. Or I'd put code on a USB stick and try to work on it in a text editor (no compiler present) and then just refine the code when I got home. I'd love to be able to have a system whereby I work on code (and pixel graphics) in a web browser and then at home I could compile everything by extracting all updates from the online tool. Does anyone know of a good tool? Preferably it'd work with Windows and Linux (and Mac for you Mac lovers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 me got my laptop with me all the time and working at lunch break if possible on code... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARIO130XE Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Hey Mario at least the two look good. ..... Mario130XE, that looks promising no doubt that can be very useful... Mario... the RPG looks good? It doesn't make me laugh, I think that those graphics are fine. May be you are being too critical with your own work. If I were you, I would take the learning of skills needed as a project in itself. Learn some asm, it is not so hard in these days if you have the will to do it, then come back to your game and bring it to life again! If you think that you need more help, here in AA there are people that work that way (José Pereira is the first one to come to mind) RoleDemo looks great. Looking forward to your Summer 2017 release. Haha... thak you all. Guess I should continue my work on the RPG and if I have some problems I could ask here for help. Lerning ASM is my next task of high priority. install WUDSN: check register for asm beginners' workshop: check reading some 6502 books: in progress greetings Mario PS: Hey Franco.... Congrats to your 2nd chance. looks like she have missed something, huh?? Good luck, mate and all the best!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco Catrin Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) I'd love to be able to have a system whereby I work on code (and pixel graphics) in a web browser and then at home I could compile everything by extracting all updates from the online tool. Does anyone know of a good tool? Preferably it'd work with Windows and Linux (and Mac for you Mac lovers). I use a version control system for that (Subversion in my case). I just push or pull the changes from my server and that way I can work on any machine. PS: Thanks for the good wishes. We are working on it! Edited March 7, 2016 by Franco Catrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 PS: Thanks for the good wishes. We are working on it! Ambivalent alert If there is some spare time in the future we could talk about the difference between "4 colour animate softwaresprites screen " and some C64 like screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunsen Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Hey Mario, the screenshots DO look good. At RENO (No not Reno, Nevada) meeting you could talk to programmers like Ingo Boller, Thomas Schulz, Stefan Dorndorf and me (haha, just kidding) and discuss problems with your game. They are all very kind and helpful. See you next saturday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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