How do the Midi Ports work on an ST?

[Rick Dangerous]

I am a complete newb on the sound capabilities of the ST and was curious about how they worked exactly.

 

So is it something like this:

 

-Keyboard/Synthesizer plugged into MIDI in port

 

-Music sequencer software such as Cubase/Notator runs on ST, allows user to compose tracks

 

-Midi-out runs to recording equipment?

 

Was this how this was used or? What made having the MIDI so special back in the day?

[galax]

Basically the purpose of MIDI is to send musical notes (length, pitch, volume, instrument/channel) as little digital messages.

 

MIDI out can't go straight to recording equipment, to turn these messages into sound they need to go to a device such as a synthesizer, sampler, etc. (which could just be your keyboard if it's an integrated keyboard & synth).

 

With a MIDI instrument (optional- you can just compose on the ST), an ST with sequencer software, and a synth module you have a fully digital multi-track recording studio, which allows the tracks to be infinitely edited and tweaked without degrading the sound at all as an analogue tape would.

[Rick Dangerous]

synth module

 

Thanks. What is the Synth Module? So the ST is more or less it's own recording studio only limited by the capabilities of the software? What is the file type that the sequencers save in? WAV?

[fedepede04]

midi is serial port interface, and what that did the ST so superior to midi, was among the mfp 68901...

[Bill Loguidice]

MIDI was just a standard that allowed musical instruments and other devices, like computers, to communicate with each other. The Atari ST was just one of the few personal computers with the ports built-in rather than requiring a separate interface (Yamaha also made several MSX models that also had them built-in).

 

In practical terms, it wasn't preferable to having better sound capabilities built-in, a la the Amiga, but in retrospect it was one of the ST's more defining features and certainly allowed it to maintain a notable presence in the professional music niche (as opposed to the Macintosh's desktop publishing and the Amiga's video production niches). Some games, particularly some of the Sierra ones, supported MIDI output, but I suspect few people took advantage of it back in the day due to the added cost of actually hooking up the right stuff to the port. I'm WAY behind in getting around to setting it up myself, although I do have all of the necessary components ready to go.

[galax]

Thanks. What is the Synth Module? So the ST is more or less it's own recording studio only limited by the capabilities of the software? What is the file type that the sequencers save in? WAV?

 

No, not WAV - that's a digital representation of a sound wave, like what is stored on an audio CD. MIDI messages say something like "Channel 1, A sharp above middle C, 50% volume, 0.1 seconds, ...". Sequencers usually use their own proprietary format, but then can also usually import and export .MID files that just contain the MIDI data. It's not a sound wave, it's a description of the note that each instrument should play. A 'synth module' (there may be a better name for it) turns MIDI messages into sound, what most people think of as a "synthesizer" is usually keyboard with a built in synth module.

[fedepede04]

wav is an audio format, it is sample sound..

 

the are no file definitions for MIDI, you can call it what ever you like.

today the most use midi standard is, GM, GM2 XG, XG lite. but program like cakewalk(soner), cubebase also have there own formats.

[GadgetUK]

As others have said, it's a serial format - data contains the instrument, note, length, pitch, effects etc. Connect your ST up to a Synth, or any other MIDI device and that device is controlled by the ST. That's what made the ST so sought after in the music industry, the music could be composed in software, tweaked until it sounded perfect, with the synths and drum kits connected doing all the musical output. You could connect Amigas and other systems up to MIDI devices back then (with interfaces etc - even the Spectrum can do MIDI!) but the fact the ST had the MIDI ports from the start meant that is was a simple and economical option. The ST can also record from the MIDI interface as well I think, so you can play the music on the keyboard and record the notes and timing on the ST, then tweak it etc.

Edited March 12, 2016 by GadgetUK

[galax]

the are no file definitions for MIDI, you can call it what ever you like. today the most use midi standard is, GM, GM2 XG, XG lite. but program like cakewalk(soner), cubebase also have there own formats.

 

There is a standard MIDI file format (.SMF or .MID) that's been around for a long time: https://www.midi.org/articles/about-midi-part-4-midi-files- but yeah for saving your work you'd use a specific program's native format.

[fedepede04]

as i recall the smf (Standard MIDI File) is part of GM (General Midi) as i wrote is one of the midi standard, but most serious midi programs don't use gm/smf, they are to limited so they have there own format.

Edited March 13, 2016 by fedepede04

[fedepede04]

i forgot windows .mid are smf files.

[Wally1]

so what is connected to midi out from the ST?

 

let me see if i got this right

 

midi in to ST is from synth/keyboard

 

ST can control keyboard and accept music info from keyboard

 

 

then what and how do i record from midi out on ST?

 

is all i really need a synth/keyboard, can ST record like with Cubase?

[galax]

is all i really need a synth/keyboard, can ST record like with Cubase?

Yes, connect them up like this:

 

[Synthe-] (MIDI OUT) ------> (MIDI IN) [Atari]
[sizer  ] (MIDI IN) <------ (MIDI OUT) [  ST ]

When you play the keyboard, the synth will send MIDI messages to Cubase (or similar) on the ST, which will be able to record what you played (the upper cable in the diagram).

 

The ST will also be able to send MIDI messages to the synthesizer, e.g. to play back what you recorded (the lower cable in the diagram).

[Fletch]

Then go buy Midi-Maze and have a smashing time blasting your friends.

[atarian1]

as i recall the smf (Standard MIDI File) is part of GM (General Midi) as i wrote is one of the midi standard, but most serious midi programs don't use gm/smf, they are to limited so they have there own format.

 

 

No. SMF and GM are two totally different beasts.

 

GM is a set of sounds and parameters that allow a song to sound (almost) the same when played on different synths. Before GM, if you loaded a song that had its sounds set for synth 1, it will not sound the same on synth 2. This was because sound #1 on synth 1 could be a piano, while on synth 2, sound #1 is an accordion. Thus, when you play the song on synth 2, it sounds totally different because it was intended to be played with a piano sound. The GM sound bank is still used today wherever you find professional standard MIDI files online.

 

SMF is a file format like .doc, .html, etc. but for MIDI files. This allowed sequencers (the program that records and playback your input from your keyboard) to share song files between sequencers. So if one person used Cubase, they can export it to SMF and let a Notator user load the file. It's probably the second best thing to come from the invention of MIDI aside from the invention of MIDI itself. Also, sequencer support for SMF is opposite of what fedepede04 said. Serious programs support SMF. Non-serious programs do not support SMF and only support their own format. I would avoid any program that does not support SMF. The major/serious sequences on the ST (Cubase, Notator, KCS Omega, etc) support SMF.

[galax]

The major/serious sequences on the ST (Cubase, Notator, KCS Omega, etc) support SMF.

Yep, the Creator SL manual (1988) has this to say about the standardised format that became SMF:

 

 

There can't be too many file formats that have been around for 30+ years.

[fedepede04]

when making a smf file you expect to have at least GM sound, there are other standard today like XG, but XG is also compatible with GM.

here is a GM midi driver that i made for Smf-Player (Roland Denmark) .

 

 

 

from Midi.org

Setup Data

An SMF not only contains regular MIDI performance data – Channelized notes, lengths, pitch bend data etc – it also should have data (commonly referred to as a 'header') that contains additional set-up data (tempo, instrument selections per Channel, controller settings, etc.) as well as songinformation (copyright notices, composer, etc.).

How good, or true to its originally created state an SMF will sound can depend a lot on the header information. The header can exert control over the mix, effects, and even sound editing parameters in order to minimize inherent differences between one soundset and another. There is no standard set of data that you have to put in a header (indeed such data can also be placed in a spare 'set-up' bar in the body of the file itself) but generally speaking the more information you provide for the receiving sound device the more defined – and so, presumably, the more to your tastes – the results will be.

Depending upon the application you are using to create the file in the first place, header information may automatically be saved from within parameters set in the application, or may need to be manually placed in a 'set-up' bar before the music data commences.

Information that should be considered (per MIDI Channel) includes:

• Bank Select (0=GM) / Program Change #
• Reset All Controllers (not all devices may recognize this command so you may prefer to zero out or reset individual controllers)
• Initial Volume (CC7) (standard level = 100)
• Expression (CC11) (initial level set to 127)
• Hold pedal (0 = off)
• Pan (Center = 64)
• Modulation (0)
• Pitch bend range
• Reverb (0 = off)
• Chorus level (0 = off)

All files should also begin with a GM/GS/XG Reset message (if appropriate) and any other System Exclusive data that might be necessary to setup the target synthesizer. If RPNs or more detailed controller messages are being employed in the file these should also be reset or normalized in the header.​

If you are inputting header data yourself it is advisable not to clump all such information together but rather space it out in intervals of 5-10 ticks. Certainly if a file is designed to be looped, having too much data play simultaneously will cause most playback devices to 'choke, ' and throw off your timing.

Edited March 14, 2016 by fedepede04

[fedepede04]

There can't be too many file formats that have been around for 30+ years.

btw. the smf file format is not +30 years old, roland was one of the corp. that push on the GM-GS standard, and there first card that support the GM-GS standard (Smf files) was the sc-55 and it was released in 91, so i would say around 90-91 maybe 89, or something like that. so +25 but not 30+

 

edit.

found some info:

http://www.artandscienceofsound.com/article/standardmidifiles

 

The Standard MIDI File (SMF) format was adopted in 1988 as an Opcode-inspired add-on to the original MIDI specification. Although the original intention was simply to legislate for the transfer of musical compositions from one ‘sequencer’ to another, SMFs would eventually become keenly sought-after entities in themselves after the adoption of General MIDI in 1992, when the question of sound compatibility was addressed.

 

 

The combination of GM and SMF ushered in the era of the ‘MIDI File:’ songs created and sold using these standardized formats that could be played on a wide variety of players, instruments, and computer platforms with reasonable certainty that the performance would sound right from the get go.

Edited March 14, 2016 by fedepede04

[galax]

btw. the smf file format is not +30 years old

 

It was already called "standard MIDI file format" by March 1, 1988, and was first announced before that at the Chicago Summer NAMM show (1987) so I was pretty close with my estimate.

 

There can't be too many file formats that are still in use after 28+ years after being defined.

 

when making a smf file you expect to have at least GM sound

 

SMF existed for several years before GM, so this is just incorrect. My 1988 copy of Creator can load and save SMF .MID files and knows nothing of GM.

[Wally1]

what if i want to use a drum machine and a keyboard synth at the same time?

 

can i connect two instruments to the atari, is there a midi splitter?

 

thanks

[galax]

what if i want to use a drum machine and a keyboard synth at the same time?

 

can i connect two instruments to the atari, is there a midi splitter?

Yes, you can get MIDI splitters. Even easier, if your device has a MIDI THRU port on it, you can use that to chain machines together

[Rick Dangerous]

And then, what file type do you take from the ST to convert to a file you would find on an audio CD, such as WAV? And that would have to be done on a PC correct, even back then?

[galax]

And then, what file type do you take from the ST to convert to a file you would find on an audio CD, such as WAV? And that would have to be done on a PC correct, even back then?

 

No, in say 1990 you would have used your synthesizers or external sound modules (see below; a box with, among other things, MIDI in, a bunch of buttons, and line level audio output) to turn the MIDI data from the ST into analogue audio signals that can be mixed together with other sources and amplified or recorded.

 

To make a CD at that point you would have digitised the analogue audio signal.

 

Of course on a modern PC you can use a softsynth to generate the audio file (WAV/mp3/etc.) on the same PC that is running your sequencer.

 

Here's a mid-late '80s synthesizer and sound module that will produce the same sound when MIDI data is sent to them:

 

[fedepede04]

ok i will stop replying to this thread since we can not seem to agree.

 

i had to read up on the subject, since i have not dealt with it since the early 90'

 

GM midi was published in 1991 between American MIDI Manufacturers Association (MMA) and the Japan MIDI Standards Committee (JMSC).

so if you have a recorder from 1988 that could save in smf when the obvious that smf if pre GM-midi.

 

but what i stated in the start of the thread still stand.

 

as i recall the smf (Standard MIDI File) is part of GM (General Midi) as i wrote is one of the midi standard, but most serious midi programs don't use gm/smf, they are to limited so they have there own format.

 

and if you write what American MIDI Manufacturers Association (MMA) state on there web site it is clear that standard midi files is what you use with Gm-midi so it is a part of GM-Midi.

https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/general-midi

 

General MIDI (GM 1)

The "General MIDI System Level 1" specification -- also known as "GM", "General MIDI 1" and "GM 1" -- defines specific features of a MIDI sound generator (synthesizer), primarily so that MIDI files are shareable.

Without General MIDI, playback of MIDI files created on one MIDI instrument might sound totally different on a different MIDI instrument, because sound selection in MIDI is done by "Program Number", not a description of the sound. The GM specification assigns specific sound names (such as "Electric Piano" and "Oboe") to each Program Number, but the acoustic characteristics of the each sound are not defined.

Note: The GM 1 specification was superceded in 1999 by General MIDI 2 which added support for additional features and capabilities which had become commonly available since GM 1 devices first appeared. However, GM 1 remains a popular format and is still commonly used for music distributed in Standard MIDI File (*.mid) format. GM 1 Features (Required) To be GM 1 compatible, a GM 1 sound generating device (keyboard, sound module, sound card, IC, software program or other product) must meet the General MIDI System Level 1 performance requirements outlined below, instantaneously upon demand, and without additional modification or adjustment/configuration by the user.

• Voices: A minimum of either 24 fully dynamically allocated voices are available simultaneously for both melodic and percussive sounds, or 16 dynamically allocated voices are available for melody plus 8 for percussion. All voices respond to velocity.
  
• Channels: All 16 MIDI Channels are supported. Each Channel can play a variable number of voices (polyphony). Each Channel can play a different instrument (sound/patch/timbre). Key-based percussion is always on MIDI Channel 10.
  
• Instruments: A minimum of 16 simultaneous and different timbres playing various instruments. A minimum of 128 preset instruments (MIDI program numbers) conforming to the GM 1 Instrument Patch Map, and 47 percussion sounds which conform to the GM 1 Percussion Key Map.
  
• Channel Messages: Support for continuous controllers 1, 7, 10, 11, 64, 121 and 123; RPN #s 0, 1, 2; Channel Pressure, Pitch Bend.
  
• Other Messages: Respond to the data entry controller and the RPNs for fine and coarse tuning and pitch bend range, as well as all General MIDI Level 1 System Messages.

GM 1 Developer Information The MMA's GM Developer Guidelines document describes additional recommendations and clarifications of the GM Specification for content producers and device makers, to insure improved compatibility among GM products.
[Link to Specification: Coming Soon]

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Edited March 14, 2016 by fedepede04

[Atari74user]

Not to cause a ruckus, but .SMF and .MID (I think) existed before GM, as Sequencers existed before GM was introduced. GM wasn't introduced until around 1991. Most synthesizers adopted GM when it was being pushed, notably Roland, Yamaha and Korg. You don't see GM on a Yamaha SY85, because as a standard it wasn't yet in full flight. Yet on the W series that proceeded, GM was becoming evident.

 

That aside, GM essentially provided a standard, such as a core set of 128 sounds. Some synthesizers were solely GM, some had GM as a subset of their complete 'sound set'. I believe MIDI Type 1 spec. was introduced along with the GM standardisation, over that of MIDI Type 0. Although I could be incorrect. Essentially MIDI Type 0 provided MIDI data in a single track, and Type 1 split this data out in a multitrack format.

 

As already mentioned, GS was Roland's extension of GM, but also XG was Yamaha's extension.

 

MIDI Type 0 and MIDI Type 1

http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/definition/Standard-MIDI-File

 

GM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI

 

Roland GS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_GS

 

Yamaha XG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_XG

 

And then, what file type do you take from the ST to convert to a file you would find on an audio CD, such as WAV? And that would have to be done on a PC correct, even back then?

 

The ST was capable of handling WAV, so you do not have to be able to convert or digitise sound on a PC. However there were other more standard audio, more specifically, sample file formats for the ST. Notably SAM, SMP, SPL and AVR as examples. Here is one Sampler in Sondigit, which could handle WAV: http://didierm.pagesperso-orange.fr/. The alternative

 

Alternatively, you could convert an already created sample in an alternate format on your ST, as those mentioned (AVR etc...) to WAV, using such a utility like 525.

 

525 info

http://cd.textfiles.com/crawlycrypt1/falcon/sound/525e/525e.txt

 

525 utility (Cover Disk 52a)

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/STF/index.htm

 

 

what if i want to use a drum machine and a keyboard synth at the same time?

 

can i connect two instruments to the atari, is there a midi splitter?

 

thanks

 

Or, there were various peripherals, MIDI expanders which gave more MIDI Inputs and Outputs. Steinberg MIDEX or C-LAB Unitor for example.

 

In summary as already mentioned, the ST became famous for sound, but the reality is that it was it's MIDI ports that gave it's place in the Music Industry. MIDI and sound are 2 different things.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Atari74user