ColecoVision - We would like your opinions on Specs

[roland p]

Just an idea, driving/paddle/spinner controls? That would set this thing apart from other devices.

 

My kids love toys/games with a steering wheel (v-tech)

Edited March 11, 2016 by roland p

[Keatah]

No! Let us use eneloops!

 

They could be made replaceable, naturally. And you can always trickle charge them with an AC adaptor that also powers the mini-cab itself.

 

Fast charging is always bad for batteries. Avoid those 15-minute chargers. The fastest you should charge any battery is 5-hours. Preferably 16-hours trickle.

 

And you should never fully discharge them, you need a cutoff circuit at about 20-30% capacity remaining.

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Keatah

[Keatah]

I'm all for emulation. And MAME prides itself on accuracy. Any discrepancies between a MAME'd game and the full-size arcade game are sure to be minor and totally forgiven in this product.

 

I wouldn't worry about doing VFD because that's nostalgia and likely to have "bonus points" with a narrow audience - at cost of limiting you to one game per cabinet. And you'll pay a lot of money to develop and custom mfg them. I also don't believe AMOLED or any similar emissive display is ready yet. There will be burn in problems especially with stationary score counters and mazes on the playing field.

[Keatah]

I also want to add in the idea of hacking here. If you go with standard off-the-shelf parts, and each component is of a family of parts. You may get interest from the modders and makers out there looking to do upgrades and conversions and enhancements.

 

Therefore I say try to stick with standard things. If an R-Pi Zero is used, provide enough space to fit the deluxe R-Pi 3 in there.

 

Provide a way to allow external controls and displays, and audio out. Mind you, you don't have to actually do all that, just provide the space for people to that on their own.

 

And don't forget and look at the Starforce-Pi and why it failed. I think it failed because it came across as "just another emulator in a box" and had no distinct vintage branding going back to the arcade days. Maybe there are other reasons.

[Keatah]

I don't think the actual console games are a good idea. You should stick to original arcade games. Console games should remain the domain of real consoles or other emulators and FPGA. It's just weird playing Atari VCS or Intellivision or even ColecoVision games on something that looks like an arcade cabinet no matter the size.

[+swlovinist]

Here are my thoughts on the matter. I think you are going to be successful if you allow the product to be modified. Sell a universal tabletop kit, throw in some games that you can get licensed, but allow additional games to be added via usb etc. Make the tabletop look exactly like the others, and people will buy them for replacement parts. Making a multi function tabletop will be much more popular and sell better. I dont want just another flashback, I want something that I can customize out of the box to what I see fit. Can you imagine having a customize able little cab that you can make into not one but several arcade mini tabletops?

[thevnaguy]

No need for Redoing the VFD, just do this along with the arcade version. I love my Galaxian MiniCade!

 

[Pixelboy]

Rasp-Pis are essentially mini-computers with boot-up and shut-down sequences. I believe this is not desirable for a tabletop mini-arcade, because it's not just adults who will play with these units, but little kids as well, and kids cannot be expected to understand that they need to shut down the device before flipping the on-off switch to the "off" position. They'll just turn the thing off when they're done playing with it, and the device may not boot correctly the next time it's turned on.

 

The only way this could work is if the operating system is specifically designed to have no shut-down sequence and be guaranteed to reboot every time after a sudden power cut-off (from either the on-off switch or insufficient battery power). This goes against the current mentality of operating systems, which take time to boot up and shut down, so if emulation of arcade ROMs is the preferred approach, then some money needs to be invested into R&D to develop an no-shut-down-required operating system. That may not even be possible with today's technology framework.

[+madman]

...deleted.

 

Didn't realize people were against jokes on here.

[thevnaguy]

Keep those ideas flowin!

Edited March 11, 2016 by thevnaguy

[+madman]

I have recently sourced 4:3 small screens though alibaba so they are still out there and at least one company is making them

 

Cost though was about 50% more than a 16:9 and cost is a massive factor in producing electronics

 

So much so it would probably be cheaper to use a 16:9 on its side and hide part of it under plastic to get the arcade like aspect

Wow, I didn't realize there'd be that much of a price difference. In that case yeah it sounds like some sort of bezel around the 16:9 would be the best. The other issue, as mentioned, would be getting a proper native resolution, otherwise you end up with scaling artifacts.

 

As cool as the mini arcades were BITD, with these games being easily available on a number of existing portable platforms for cheap, I'm not sure I see a way to do a revised version at a price point that would make sense for the average consumer.

Edit: I just looked in the App store and I see Pac Man for $5 and Frogger for .99c w/in app purchases. Hard to compete w/that for the casual gamer.

[Keatah]

Any joking in this thread is bad taste.

 

Regarding OS startup and shutdown. Maybe the OS could be stored in write-protected memory. Or modified to withstand any power loss. Surely this isn't rocket science.

 

Kids play with ipads and iphones all the time and they don't suffer from shutdown/startup issues.

 

In the big picture, consider that a mini-cab is a limiting form factor and will have limited appeal. How much will the kids of today actually like playing on these as opposed to their phone and tablet?

[+xucaen]

I would want to see exact ports of the original arcade versions included, along with an updated version. Oh, how about an exact duplication of the original minicade version as well? So, IMO, each cab should have at least those three versions of the featured game. In the case of games that had sequels, it would be nice to include those as well, if they fit on the storage medium.

 

As a developer, I want to see some developer options. Let's say you have Pac Man on a mini. It would have some form of a Pac Man engine. Give us options to tap into that engine so we can create new mazes, and sprites, and add or change some rules to make a unique game. And we should be able to share games we make or just the components. For example, say I make a really cool maze, and my friend makes really cool sprites. We could share those so we each have cool maze and sprites to make our games.

 

I wonder if each mini should have Wi-Fi, so we can have our high scores saved somewhere, like a Coleco leader board. And if we make a new game, we can share that game and it would have a separate leader board.

 

Maybe players want to form teams and compete with other teams. So, a league can set up a league board and define the teams. Players can pick their teams and scores are saved by team.

[Chocobro]

Rasp-Pis are essentially mini-computers with boot-up and shut-down sequences. I believe this is not desirable for a tabletop mini-arcade, because it's not just adults who will play with these units, but little kids as well, and kids cannot be expected to understand that they need to shut down the device before flipping the on-off switch to the "off" position. They'll just turn the thing off when they're done playing with it, and the device may not boot correctly the next time it's turned on.

 

The only way this could work is if the operating system is specifically designed to have no shut-down sequence and be guaranteed to reboot every time after a sudden power cut-off (from either the on-off switch or insufficient battery power). This goes against the current mentality of operating systems, which take time to boot up and shut down, so if emulation of arcade ROMs is the preferred approach, then some money needs to be invested into R&D to develop an no-shut-down-required operating system. That may not even be possible with today's technology framework.

 

 

It isn't trivial, but it's not hard either. Keatah mentions a common solution.

 

I've worked on digital signage in the past that runs off linux or XP and we had to deal with this all the time.

 

There's also versions of OSs specifically designed for this problem, such as windows 10 IoT and various linux/android distributions targeting embedded platforms.

[Keatah]

@Pixelboy

 

I think the "expected" features and functions are going to require some sort of computer and OS. A dedicated ASIC isn't going to be versatile enough. And if you go ASIC, you'll need to develop one for each model. And it will eliminate hacking and modding.

 

Unfortunately I also get the feeling we're trying to push an old concept into a modern-day environment. The "arcade cabinet" is an icon of the 1980's. And a mini-cab was appealing at the time. Today? I'm not so sure.

 

Today's kids don't have the craving for "arcade cabinets" like we did back in that day. Just saying. So to make this appealing you NEED a modern computer. A modern computer in an old-style mini-cab is interesting if just for the conflict.

[DerekRumpler]

I don't know enough about the tech (I'm a software guy, not a hardware one), but if you made it sort of like the Flashback with a bunch of games on it and interchangeable arcade plates (for example, you could make it look like a Donkey Kong arcade and later a Pac-Man arcade) then I think that would be neat. I'd probably pay $30 for it.

[cimerians]

Just an idea, driving/paddle/spinner controls? That would set this thing apart from other devices.

 

My kids love toys/games with a steering wheel (v-tech)

 

I love that, would be great to see Turbo, Slither and other games use a paddle or small trackball.

 

Not sure if Coleco would be able to partner with Atari for some Atari games. Crystal Castles, Marble Madness, Tempest, Warlords etc. Taito's Arkanoid would work well too.

[horseradish]

I'm not a hardware guy so I have no real feedback to give there. If, however, you can license Namco titles, you'll definitely have my money for a Dig Dug or Galaga minicade.

 

Or mappy. Or pac-land.

 

I'm a namco guy here so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

EDIT:

 

I love that, would be great to see Turbo, Slither and other games use a paddle or small trackball.

 

Not sure if Coleco would be able to partner with Atari for some Atari games. Crystal Castles, Marble Madness, Tempest, Warlords etc. Taito's Arkanoid would work well too.

 

 

Yea gimme a mini tempest and you'll get more of my money.

I have no idea how you'd manage a tiny trackball for Crystal Castles and the like, but you'll also get something out of me if you pull that off reasonably well.

Edited March 11, 2016 by horseradish

[enoofu]

Yeah, this product would need strong Art from a well known Arcade machine in the 80's also don't forgot SNK as they were well known even before NG

[+Yurkie]

4 or 5 games per unit.

 

play just like the original

 

Make just one version of this machine to start and have the case color and art focused on one of the games. See if you get any sales. If you do you can put 4 or 5 games on another console. Putting a shit ton of games on one unit will make it seem cheap and undesirable IMO.

 

Use C or D batteries plus the ability to run off a wall wort. That way these can be plugged in at home and played, but have the novelty of being portable.

 

I think a well built unit like I describe in a nice quality box with window can sell for $99.99 all day long.

 

Do this shit right or don't do it, there is too much f&%king junk out there.

[toiletunes]

The screen will need to be large enough to be usable, but small enough to be affordable. Ditto the controls. One 'big name' game, plus a handful of more obscure titles would keep me happy. Maybe a coin slot for a piggy bank- probably not, just brainstorming. It'd be cool to pump quarters again.

Obviously meant as a standalone product, but AV out and controller input? Maybe that's overkill.

I got nothing. Just keep us posted so I can buy

[8bitforlife]

You know what would make these sell like hotcakes if you besides making the normal ones with games prebuilt make some slightly larger ones just slightly enough to house 4 buttons and 2 side buttons and larger screen with nothing in them for hobbiests. So people could make retropie cabinets easier.

[Keatah]

The do it yourself theme seems pretty strong. I do like the idea, and it would eliminate assembly costs. More could be offered for the same cost! Personality modules or carts or SD could be offered and sold separately. I hate to use the word "cartridges" though. Because in this case they'd be used for setup more or less.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Keatah

[Newsdee]

A dedicated ASIC isn't going to be versatile enough. And if you go ASIC, you'll need to develop one for each model. And it will eliminate hacking and modding.

 

True, but wouldn't an ASIC massively decrease the unit cost enough to make it easier to sell at retail? If the screen can be repurposed it still allows to plug in something else by modders.

[Newsdee]

I'm not sure they sell smaller versions of LCD screens with per-pixel LED backlighting but that would look great too. It was available for high end TVs for some time I think.