ColecoVision - We would like your opinions on Specs

[SegaShooters]

4 or 5 games per unit.

 

play just like the original

 

Make just one version of this machine to start and have the case color and art focused on one of the games. See if you get any sales. If you do you can put 4 or 5 games on another console. Putting a shit ton of games on one unit will make it seem cheap and undesirable IMO.

 

Use C or D batteries plus the ability to run off a wall wort. That way these can be plugged in at home and played, but have the novelty of being portable.

 

I think a well built unit like I describe in a nice quality box with window can sell for $99.99 all day long.

 

Do this shit right or don't do it, there is too much f&%king junk out there.

 

 

Yurkie said it well.

I'll just add that I hope the unit doesn't have a strong chemical odor like the Retro-Bit Retro Duo has and that the controls (joystick & buttons) are durable.

I remember back in the early '80's the joystick from my Coleco Pac Man tabletop unit started to malfunction after not too many months.

 

Looking forward to seeing what develops with this product.

[cardo1]

UPDATE: This is a LOT of good information. Here is how this is looking so far based on AA and FB forums as far as technical data.

 

GUTS: Raz Pi / MAME

It seems that the hardware team has focused on the end result functionality of the system. This should help is big time in getting the proper price point. It has been generally suggested that $49 would represent a solid retail price with many suggesting numbers between $69 and higher. Our initial goal would be to arrive closer to the $49 price if possible. Using the pi (or a similar product) and the MAME would significantly reduce the development costs if we had to create this from scratch. We will have to look into the legalities of the MAME.

 

Screen LCD/LED seems to be preferred and within a decent price point. If there are any other specifications, please let us know.

 

Batteries vs Adapter: We will inquire about the adapter (and using an already approved adapter would help).

 

Design: Keep the higher quality plastic but make sure that we differentiate the new systems from the old (so that we don't devalue the originals that collectors have taken years to gather). Differentiate by color of plastic, label design, and box art.

 

Other wish list items To look into : Wifi (allow people to upload high scores or other information to a central site - Return of the true arcade days!).

HDMI - Hook up to a television so that you can play your mini on a TV

Expansion Slots for adding games.

One inch speakers

 

There have been so many great ideas and this update is mainly focussed on the general specs which we are looking to hash out first. We do like general input / memories / game requests / and the like as well, and we can gather this info for later use.

 

Again, this is a great deal of info and advice to get started here! Let us know if there is any other technical data that we would need to have right now and we will get the info to the developers to see what is possible.

Thank you all for your time.

Edited March 12, 2016 by cardo1

[galax]

Someone had suggested that MAME would be able to be used in the game, but it would seem after reading the disclaimer, it would seem that this is not a black and white issue. We can look into this further, but what is your take on using the code for free in a 'for profit' item.

 

I'm not sure about the license that all the MAME code is under, but I think under the GPL you could use it so long as you share any changes and additions you make under the same license.

[Keatah]

I have zero experience with the R-Pi Zero, but at $5 it's a steal, and should handle the basics. Otherwise you're up to $35 for the more comprehensive models.

 

The Zero doesn't command the whole budget.

[+5-11under]

One problem I see with using Raspberry Pi and MAME is that there's nothing new there... unless you're also creating new games to run under MAME. Otherwise the only draw is the shell. On the other hand, though, there is probably room in the Pi market for something like this, and if done well, it could be successful.

 

Another is the price. We all want something great, but unfortunately that comes at a cost, a cost that I fear the average consumer won't want to spend. It all depends on your goals and how many units you need to sell to make this worthwhile for you. I'd get your developers to find the best solution at the $30, $50, and $70 sales point, and at the same time, figure out how many you could sell depending on price (although I guess that's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing).

[Keatah]

Bad comes to worse, you can always do single game cabinets like from the 1980's and call it a day. Check into who did the custom ICs back then and find out what was involved and go from there.

[Great Hierophant]

MAME is under a GPL 2.0 umbrella license, with certain files released under the 3-clause BSD license. Both licenses allow for commercial exploitation of the copyrighted code.

 

Of course, individual contributors to the project under the previous no-commercial copyleft license may have objected : http://www.maxconsole.com/maxcon_forums/threads/197259-EXCLUSIVE-MAME-going-commercial-The-END-of-MAME

[thevnaguy]

I'm not a hardware guy so I have no real feedback to give there. If, however, you can license Namco titles, you'll definitely have my money for a Dig Dug or Galaga minicade.

 

Or mappy. Or pac-land.

 

I'm a namco guy here so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Yea gimme a mini tempest and you'll get more of my money.

I have no idea how you'd manage a tiny trackball for Crystal Castles and the like, but you'll also get something out of me if you pull that off reasonably well.

mini trackball! And a Mini Tempest with Rotary

 

Edited March 12, 2016 by thevnaguy

[Andromeda Stardust]

Ohh god don't get me started on Beats Audio, that crap is not worth the Capitalization I just used! I'm gonna stop right now before I explode!

 

What does a speaker like from the old PCs or Apple II units cost? Remember, we're not going for weight savings here. And my Apple II sounded alright back in the day.

 

They also make speakers of the same style and construct that are 1/2 size. Put a box around them and you'll get great bass.

Like the "pills" they sell for $100 with the quad 1.25" drivers. I had a chance to demo one at Best Buy. Tinny as **** with zero bass.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

Other wish list items To look into : Wifi (allow people to upload high scores or other information to a central site - Return of the true arcade days!).

HDMI - Hook up to a television so that you can play your mini on a TV

Expansion Slots for adding games.

One inch speakers

 

One thing to keep in mind with wifi is your device becomes an "intentional radiator" and is subject to more costly testing and regulations. Another thing to consider is would the audience want to fiddle with setup to access their connection? Will Coleco commit to maintaining high score servers? These mini arcades should be like the old plug n plays. Just turn it on and it works.

 

I do believe it would be a nice gesture to maintain high scores on the device itself, with a somewhat hidden user option to reset them on a per game basis if desired. A user could track their personal best without dealing with networks.

[Keatah]

Unfortunately "online" connectivity is expected with devices today. Online this, online that. Pfagghh.. Away with it all! One more added complexity to drive up the cost.

 

And wifi has nothing to do with the "return of the true arcade days." Back then we kept score with a notebook, or relied on the game cab's nvram. We didn't give a care except for being in awe at someone reportedly (via print magazine) rolling the counter.

 

I'm not sure these games are conduits for making and breaking hi-scores.

[Keatah]

I do believe it would be a nice gesture to maintain high scores on the device itself, with a somewhat hidden user option to reset them on a per game basis if desired. A user could track their personal best without dealing with networks.

This is sufficient and "right-sized" for this product. Any competition is gonna be local to a residence or party and very informal.

[Keatah]

I wouldn't worry about any devaluation. The originals with their VFD will always have a special charm surrounding them.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I'm not sure these games are conduits for making and breaking hi-scores.

I don't suppose a one inch joystick would be conducive to world record breaking anyway unless you're the size of an action figure. If I make it to the second intermission in Pacman/Ms Pacman, I am having a very good game.

[Newsdee]

I've found this kit for making a mini cabinet from an RPi, asking $120 for the case and pieces (not including the computer):

https://www.adafruit.com/products/1783

[GroovyBee]

It would be nice to have original games on each system because people can get some added value. Also, this should give some new developers some major outlets to get their games into the hands of gamers. Maybe even some mini exclusives.

 

Its a nice idea but the majority of people that will buy these products are not the least bit interested in homebrew titles because they have no nostalgia attached to them. The money would be better spent towards acquiring licenses for BITD games, than paying homebrewers for their game.

[enoofu]

Another wishlist item may be bluetooth for using your phone or a joy for controls if you can hook it up to TV

[7800fan]

I would love for a VFD style display but it's rarely manufactured and thus, getting tooling for a specific design for the game may end up costing more today than back in 80s. LED can simulate VFD with carefully done light pipes and filters to minimize sideway light leaks. But it still would limit the games to something that uses the display. LCD is probably the best choice, it can display anything including retro VFD style and full color original arcade style.

 

Do offer a way to deal with the joystick. We aren't 8 year old anymore, a 1" stick may be harder to play today than they were 35 years ago so maybe include an add on ball or disc to make the stick a bit easier for us with big hand and slow reflex.

 

Bonus: don't use weird propriety screws, weld plastic shell together, or make LCD and board impossible to swap. Keep it easy to open and hack so user could swap the main board while leaving LCD and controller intact. ie remove the game board and install a PC Engine motherboard to make mini PC Engine (and TG16) arcade, or NES on a chip board to make mini NES (and Famicom) arcade. This would require the LCD to have video board such as composite.

[GroovyBee]

GUTS: Raz Pi / MAME

It seems that the hardware team has focused on the end result functionality of the system. This should help is big time in getting the proper price point. It has been generally suggested that $49 would represent a solid retail price with many suggesting numbers between $69 and higher. Our initial goal would be to arrive closer to the $49 price if possible. Using the pi (or a similar product) and the MAME would significantly reduce the development costs if we had to create this from scratch. We will have to look into the legalities of the MAME.

 

The good thing about R-Pi is the reduced development time and the CPU processing power it offers. However, its not without its quirks. Its no longer an instant on/off product because it takes time to boot-up and shut down. Its also quite power hungry which isn't good for a battery powered product. The lack of "instant on" and immediate select/play a game may potentially annoy and confuse potential purchasers.

 

Screen LCD/LED seems to be preferred and within a decent price point. If there are any other specifications, please let us know.

 

Spend as much as you can on the LCD for the price point you have in mind. After all, its what people will look at all the time.

 

Batteries vs Adapter: We will inquire about the adapter (and using an already approved adapter would help).

 

The good things about an external adapter are that its already UL/CE/FCC approved and you can then make releases in different countries e.g USA, UK and Europe.

 

Design: Keep the higher quality plastic but make sure that we differentiate the new systems from the old (so that we don't devalue the originals that collectors have taken years to gather). Differentiate by color of plastic, label design, and box art.

 

Agreed! Its a new product so it makes sense to pay homage to the originals but not "be" the originals. It also frees you from the original product's component placement e.g. LCD position/size, apertures/vents and any internal height constraints.

 

Other wish list items To look into : Wifi (allow people to upload high scores or other information to a central site - Return of the true arcade days!).

 

Personally I don't see any added value in this. After the initial few months after release, very few people will be hitting the servers with their scores. WiFi is also a higher power drain on a battery powered product. When you have to configure something using a few buttons and a joystick its not the most pleasant or intuitive user experience either. Having some form of on-board flash storage e.g. a small SPI/I2C device, for the high scores would be a much better idea.

 

HDMI - Hook up to a television so that you can play your mini on a TV

 

Nice, but it will add to the BOM cost. If you add "TV-out" it also makes sense to add Bluetooth controller support, otherwise the mini arcade becomes an uncomfortable to use game controller.

 

Expansion Slots for adding games.

 

Nice, but not something that most people will use.

 

There have been so many great ideas and this update is mainly focussed on the general specs which we are looking to hash out first. We do like general input / memories / game requests / and the like as well, and we can gather this info for later use.

 

Allowing button configuration might be good, especially f that configuration data is saved internally.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I've found this kit for making a mini cabinet from an RPi, asking $120 for the case and pieces (not including the computer):

https://www.adafruit.com/products/1783

I find it ironic with the race to the bottom in price for little mini computers, the enclosures usually cost way more than the Pi itself. I got the Porta Pi kit for $330:

http://www.retrobuiltgames.com/diy-kits-shop/porta-pi-arcade-wood-kit-10-hd/

 

Then bought some tools, woodstain, and also upgraded the joystick and micro switches. And here's the result of my labors:

http://stardust4ever.deviantart.com/art/Raspberry-Pi-Arcade-DK-playing-DK-535882030

[Tempy]

I'd buy these just for the shell If you put in a RPi instead of something proprietary, then it'd be super for modders.

 

Make sure the controls are good though. Those mini-cabs and the Sega Arcade Nanos have lousy controls.

[Schizophretard]

This may be a little far out there but so am I. Anyway, you own the rights to the ColecoVision name, right? You are also looking to do something with mini-arcades, fixing issues with the current Flashback, want to try to please as many people as possible with MAME, Raspberry Pi, multiple games, etc.? So, how about a mini somewhere around a Vectrex sized replica of one of these:

 

 

The Coleco Vision and The Arcade Quality Video Game System could remain the same. The stuff on both sides of the screen could be removed to fit a tiny wide screen LCD(art for arcade borders could be done in emulation and the extra screen space can be used for other games). The area with the ColecoVision, joysticks, and steering wheel could be used for one set of joysticks and buttons like on a MAME machine. The display at the bottom could be pictures of boxes for all the games pre-installed in the table top ColecoVision Flashback 2 but those pictures will really be the bottoms of two ColecoVision controllers that are vertically held in there hidden away like the Vectrex controller. The controllers could be unplugged to plug in Atari, SEGA, etc. controllers for either the built in games or for the Raspberry Pi and if one wants to use a variety of USB controllers and maybe bluetooth then that is where a Raspberry Pi comes in. Have the back to be only held together with magnets to have easy access. Inside would have whatever SOC they use for the Flashbacks for the built in ColecoVision and arcade games but there would be all the hookups to put in whichever Raspberry Pi one chooses with some kind of switch to switch between the primary Flashback purpose that would be completely plug and play and the build your own Raspberry Pi secondary purpose.

 

In other words, it would be a plug and play table top ColecoVision/mini-arcade Flashback with its own screen designed to look like a kiosk that is maybe something like the size of a shoe box standing vertically. That would be its main purpose for the masses at retail stores. But also on the box it would be advertised as all you need to plug in the Raspberry Pi of your choice to run RetroPie, Raspbian, KODI, use whatever controllers you want, hook it up to a TV, hook up a keyboard and mouse to have a really geeky desktop for web browsing, or whatever you want. So, it will appeal to two niche markets. One would be the plug and play Flashback market and the other the Raspberry Pi market. That would combine two niche markets together making it a little less niche as a whole.

[davidbrit2]

Wow! That's quite a successful campaign. 15,000 backers can't be wrong. We will def have to look into this.

Yeah, it was pretty wild. I think their original campaign goal was like $50,000. They smashed through that in about 2 days, and ended up well over a million.

 

I believe the basic CHIP boards are in people's hands already, but the rest of the accessories (like PocketCHIP) are due out in May.

[Glimglam]

I'm all for these things coming back. Maybe I wasn't an eighties kid (I was barely a nineties one), but something about the look of these is just so... neat. And I, uh, don't feel particularly compelled to shell out upwards of a few hundred dollars for a custom-modded minicade with a Pi and MAME stuffed into it. Something in the 40-60 dollar range sounds about right, to me.

 

Just brainstorming here, but, I'll hash out a quick laundry list of features that occur to me as I write:

• 4-5 games per unit. This sounds fair to me. There are way too many "160-in-1!" plug-n-plays out there that are loaded with mostly garbage, so picking a few quality titles per unit with official branding would be great.
• A "theme" for each unit depending on games. Could be by company (Namco, Sega, etc.), by genre, or by the games themselves.
• AC adapter for power, batteries optional; small as these things are, they are rather clunky, and probably wouldn't be very practical to carry around on the go.
• MAME emulation with an R-Pi or some low-range SoC almost seems like a necessity. Many old arcade classics are tiny, and don't require much to run them.
• Good speakers, with easily adjustable volume. Even assuming audio emulation is perfect, small, cheap speakers will make it sound tinny, grating, and generally awful. Likewise, good speakers won't mean much if the emulator is outputting poor-quality sound.
• Actual joysticks! It's easy to cheap out on them, so they can get broken or lose responsiveness easily. D-pad is a possible alternative, but clearly doesn't represent the arcade experience.
• Rotary dials/trackballs? Perhaps on a single unit with games exclusively using those controls? They would work wonders for Missile Command, Slither, and Tempest.
• Mod-friendly. I don't do this, personally, and don't know anything about it... but as has been mentioned before, it'd be a boon to the people who do that.
• Ability to save highscores. Not explicitly needed, no, but it'd be nice to keep a persistent record of my scores rather than losing them as soon as it's turned off...
• Other bells and whistles. Light-up marquee? Configurable buttons, via a custom frontend? Slot for SD cards? (probably not gonna happen, heh.)

Obviously keeping costs low is going to be a sticking factor in a lot of what happens and what doesn't. Not everyone can be pleased.

 

If you're taking game requests... well, I'd love if you could get Berzerk and Frenzy. Two of my favorite arcade games, right there. It'd also be great to see Scramble, Q-bert, Robotron 2084, and possibly Star Castle. Jr. Pac-Man would also be a treat, but, that probably isn't likely to happen.

 

Also, this is straying from the immediate topic somewhat, but do you have any potential future plans beyond the Minicades, and such? Personally, I'd love to see a ColecoVision "mini" of some kind; something to play CV carts on, like the Retro Trio is to the NES/SNES/Genesis and whatnot. It'd be a cheaper and more convenient alternative to hunting down a ColecoVision that still works properly nowadays. This is pretty much just wishful thinking on my part, but... it's nice to dream. I do love Coleco, and sincerely hope to see it succeed in its endeavors.

[Keatah]

How many people that have never seen or had these mini cabs are interested in them now?

Edited March 12, 2016 by Keatah