Flea Market CSS Black Box Find--Salvageable?

[electronizer]

While browsing the local electronics flea market, I came across a CSS Black Box in a pile of old PCBs. There are some bent pins, and it looks like it was modified at some point with a few added wires and components. It's also missing a chip (a 6522?)

 

I'm guessing I need a power supply and a PBI cable (pinout somewhere?) to test it since I don't have any XE machines, just XLs. What are the power requirements of the board? Is there any risk to the computer if something on the Black Box is fried/how can I test it before plugging it in?

 

As a kid I always dreamed about using the PBI on my Atari 800XL, so I was really excited to see this board!

 

 

 

 

[Fox-1 / mnx]

Why do I never find such things?

 

It's a simple old style PCB so it's almost certain it can be restored to it's former glory, especially if you have a working one right next to it to check the condition of the parts. (wanna sell it?)

 

edit: the wires are common. The white ones on top are chip select lines to make it possible to use bigger EPROMs as used on later firmware with taskmaster built-in. Looking at the kind of used wire I'd say they're there since the beginning.

 

b.t.w: it's a good idea to cover the glass window of the EPROM.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Fox-1 / mnx

[Marius]

The bigger eprom with task master is (IIRC) called the BlackBox Enhancer.

 

On Fox-1 webpage there is this page:

http://mixinc.net/atari/pinouts/bb_con.htm

 

It's an excellent picture.

 

If you are going to use this thing, three things to take in mind:

 

1) You do not need the -12V (or -5V) if you are not going to use the RS232

2) The SCSI port is upside down

3) This blackbox is SCSI 1 and no Parity (I do not know whether there is SCSI 1 with parity)

 

On fox-1 website you also can find a parity upgrade, but first let you get this thing in working order.

 

Did you get a 50 pin pbi cable with it, otherwise you need to make one yourself for the Atari (it is built with stock components)

[Scooter83]

That's cool as heck if it goes up for the group I'd be interested also. Very nice find

[BillC]

Nice find! The manual for it is available at http://www.nleaudio.com/css.shtml

The schematic, by Guus Assmann, for it and the floppy board are available at

http://www.dereatari.republika.pl/schematy.htm

[AtariGeezer]

Wow, cool! Probably worth 100 times more than what you paid for, if it's working...

I found mine on ebay in 2014 for $150.

[electronizer]

Thanks for all the helpful links! I'm headed out to the parts store to get what I need to make the PBI cable and a power connector. While I'm at it, I'm going to make a cable to connect it to another recent acquisition, an 825 printer. I didn't have an interface, but I was able to verify that the printer worked by hooking it up to an Arduino. It would be much cooler to print to it from Atariwriter, though!

[Mathy]

Hello electronizer

 

Check out my BlackBox page.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[themrfreeze]

Late to the party, but I actually built that Black Box you have.

[bugs]

You should build some more

 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[themrfreeze]

You should build some more

 

 

I would be more than willing to build another batch of them if Bob was so inclined, but I don't ever see that happening.

[+Larry]

Late to the party, but I actually built that Black Box you have.

 

What are the mods that you applied to the base unit?

 

-Larry

[themrfreeze]

 

What are the mods that you applied to the base unit?

 

-Larry

You mean the resistors and cap on the bottom of the board? To the best of my recollection, they were design modifications Bob made to improve stability.

[electronizer]

@themrfreeze thanks for posting! It's really cool to hear from the person who made the board I have! Do you have any tips for using it that might not be common knowledge?

 

I finally got a chance to work on this some more. Ordered a replacement 6522 from overseas that took quite a while to get here, and rigged up an old AT power supply to provide all the necessary voltages. It was easy to make up the ribbon cable I needed for my 800xl--just a matter of crimping on the right connectors. I did notice that there was some heat damage and that the resistance is off on the termination network, so no SCSI for now. I hooked everything up and with some trepidation turned it all on, and...

 

 

 

It works!!! So cool to play around in the monitor and see what's happening in memory.

 

Next step: make up the cable to connect to my 825 printer and try doing a screen dump!

Edited April 18, 2016 by electronizer

[themrfreeze]

@themrfreeze thanks for posting! It's really cool to hear from the person who made the board I have! Do you have any tips for using it that might not be common knowledge?

 

Not after all these years...it's been ~25 years since I built those Black Boxes, so anything along those lines has long since been forgotten. Folks like Mathy who have been using them for years know far more about their ins-and-outs at this point than I do (or ever did, lol).

Edited April 19, 2016 by themrfreeze

[JD6502]

I'm a bit jealous. My firmware is much earlier and I lack options D and E. Still, I feel lucky to have a BB at all. One tip I've not seen documented is that when holding the help key during a reset you force a cold start. Very handy for moving from boot disk to boot disk.

[electronizer]

Interesting tip--thanks for sharing!

 

I've hit an issue: after getting the 825 working, I plugged in an Atariwriter cartridge intending to try out some formatting on the printer, but the computer wouldn't boot. I tried a few other cartridges and the same thing happened: the 800XL goes straight to the self test for memory, and the second ROM bar shows up red. Has anyone here encountered this problem before? I can boot from SIO2SD just fine.

[1050]

So booting up just fine with SIO2SD, what happens when you then do a run at E471 and select memory test? I assume two green bars for ROM since it appears to be BB related is when this fails.

 

If this assumption is correct you might try swapping out the U18 74LS08 AND gate for a 74HCT08 AND gate as that might give the system a stronger clock signal. In one of my configurations long ago I need to use a FAST version of this gate (74F08) before the BB liked to work right. Faster than HCT would be 74ACT08 which still has rail to rail output with more milliamps to give the clock some real punch. Hoping your 800XL is fully socketted so this isn't too much of a PIA to try, I swap this part out as a matter of course preferring the HCT08, they just seem to fly better with it in there. It has similar speed to LS logic family but larger fan out and then the crisper waveform of the clock too. Hard to say from here which exactly is the real issue. It sure is worth a try.

[+Larry]

I'm a bit jealous. My firmware is much earlier and I lack options D and E. Still, I feel lucky to have a BB at all. One tip I've not seen documented is that when holding the help key during a reset you force a cold start. Very handy for moving from boot disk to boot disk.

 

Came with BB Enhancer rom for another $50 or so, or with the purchase of the Floppy Board.

 

@Electronizer -- you do have the docs, don't you? Still posted at the New Life Audio/CSS web site if perhaps you don't have them:

 

http://www.nleaudio.com/css/

 

-Larry

[electronizer]

@Larry, I did take a look at the docs. Am I missing something about using cartridges?

 

@1050 thanks for the advice! With the black box connected, I booted to basic and typed "bye" to go to the self test. It still shows the second ROM bar as red. Unfortunately, this isn't a socketed 800XL, but I do have a socketed one that I can use to try replacing U18. Looks like I'm due for another trip to the parts store!

[1050]

Before you go to that trouble you might just try the second 800XL as is - chances are it will fly fine without doing a thing to it. The one that needs the help is the one without sockets. It's a rare thing when I find the problem here, but when I do, THEN I can fix it, sometimes. It sure sounds like the BB is loading the system somehow and the second half of the rom isn't able to give a correct checksum which is where the second bar turning red comes from. When the first half of the same eprom passes and the second half doesn't, we have a border line issue somewhere. I'm just guessing and offering what has worked for me in the past.

 

Quite a find, congrats on that part, we should all be so lucky.

[electronizer]

And, voila--the socketed 800xl works as is! I am able to load cartridges and the ROM test passes both bars. It's surprising that the socketed models are so much better. This 800xl has the 256k Rambo XL that my dad installed when I was a kid. It doesn't have any video updates though, so I'll be getting my soldering iron out again. Good thing I got a chance to practice adding chroma on the unsocketed model.

 

On a side note, how did people cope with word processing in 40 columns and then getting an 80 column printout that looks totally different? :-P

[gozar]

On a side note, how did people cope with word processing in 40 columns and then getting an 80 column printout that looks totally different? :-P

 

It worked surprisingly well, I used AtariWriter for 4 or 5 years as my main word processor. Print preview would scroll to show you the page.

 

And now with distraction free writing is all the wage, I didn't realize how far a head of the curve I was!

[flashjazzcat]

On a side note, how did people cope with word processing in 40 columns and then getting an 80 column printout that looks totally different? :-P

I wrote my own with an 80 column print preview (although I could have just used the First XLEnt Word Processor).

[electronizer]

I found a couple of old 300MB SCSI drives, hopefully one of them works. They're massive, they must be 5lbs a piece!

 

I'm getting ready to replace the fried termination resistor network. It's the only chip on the board that isn't socketed. :-( How easy are these boards to desolder? Do I need to be more careful than usual about lifting a trace?