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Opinions/Help Regarding My Quest To Build a PI99/4a


MurdockScott

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I have an idea for a project. My son is getting a Raspberry PI 3. I am hoping that this little computer will be for him what the TI99/4a was for me when I was young. I have seen people putting Raspberry PIs inside classic computers and for obvious nostalgic reasons this appealed to me. It would be nice to have all the bits contained in a roomy protective case and a classic computer just seems “right”. Plus I want to get various emulations of older computers running on it for him to mess around with… sort of his own personal computer museum. I know someone has done a mod like this with a TI99/4a before and I would only consider such a thing if I could find a unit that was headed for the recycling bin otherwise. In other words…

No destruction of working units!

No permanent modifications to the case.

Salvage all parts and keep as replacement parts for my two TI994/a computers.

I don’t think I would do the keyboard conversion (ruin a working TI99 keyboard? feels wrong) the PI 3 has BlueTooth so… I think we will leave the TI keyboard as decorative and use a wireless.

I have been looking for a few weeks but I am a bit frustrated with eBay at the moment, people seem like they may be purposefully obscuring if potential units are working or not or just lack the knowledge to test them. I see a lot of units labeled "untested". The crazy thing is the prices for these non working or "untested" as-is units are not any less than a good deal an a nice working unit. I have passed on 2-3 nice looking and working TI99/4a auctions that closed at around $40 due to my unwillingness to take a useful unit out of circulation. The two sales on kinda ugly, beat up, definitely non working TI99s I currently find both work out to about that same price or more. I have also passed of a couple of "untested" or non-working sales because the shipping seemed outrageous (can they inflate that with a handling fee or something?). This is really making me regret the downfall of the huge computer surplus stores that used to exist.

Questions for TI99/4a people:

Do you like or hate this idea?

Any ideas on getting a nice looking non functional unit that fits my criteria?

Has anyone ever tried to buff the scratches out of a unit? (Steel Wool? Is it bare aluminum or is there a finish of some sort?)

What is the current state of TI99/4a emulation on the Raspberry PI3? Anyone have one?

I don’t know if the people that did the “TI PI” even bothered to get a TI emulator running on it. All I could see is that they installed RetroPI, played some console games and called it a day. I have read that TI99/Sim can be made to work. My goal would be for the PI99/4a to sit proudly in our entertainment center and act as a TI99/4a by default, but with the switch of a card could be one of several classic computers or a computer with a modern OS.

Thanks in advance for any advice you would like to share.

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The aluminum case has a protective coating, so steel wool would wreak all kinds of havoc. . .and it does seem like a good use for an otherwise unusable computer case. Shipping can be crazy, depending on the distance between the seller and you. Note also that there are substantially more consoles out there thn there are users today--even if each user had 20+ consoles in their stash. The market would still be saturated with folks trying to sell the ones they found in a closet last week. Following your mantra of doing no harm to the parts, even if you extracted the mother board from a known good machine and put it aside to use for repairs if one of your primaries bit the dust, you'd still be OK. Note that the Pi2 wasn't fast enough/powerful enough to run a TI emulator (it was attempted and failed). No one has tried it with a Pi3 yet. . .so good luck. :)

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The protective coating comes as little surprise, (I assumed it must have a finish of some sort) but its nice to have that confirmed before I got a wild notion and potentially did a costly test with a scratched up unit. : ) You make a very good point about keeping the mainboard safe for the time when one of my other units needs a replacement. That is very likely to happen one day.

 

Yeah, I have been reading everything I could find and I knew that TI emulation on the PI was not going well... but I was hoping that someone had attempted it with the new PI 3. Perhaps I am the lab rat! Hmm, thats bad news as I am only semi technical and know nothing about Linux : ) I am still not expecting to get M.E.S.S. working. From what I have read, I assume it will still require much more power. Which is understandable, since it is doing so many amazing things, and I can only imagine all that complexity would be not a good candidate for getting optimized to run on a $35 computer, but I am hopeful that one of the other dedicated options will eventual work. I thought I had read that someone had TI99/Sim working on a PI 2 but I know very little about that one. I have got the java version of V9T9 running on my Mac recently and like it fairly well. Seems like being java, there should be a way to get that cooking. But if all else fails... it can be a very attractive Commodore 64/Apple II/Atari 800/Timex Sinclair/Atari ST/Apple Mac as it would seem that all those have emulated on PI 2 (I have no idea how good that emulation really is).

 

My son is getting the PI mainly for reasons unrelated to classic computing. I just have this strong desire to teach him the beginnings of all this and right now he loves the TI99/4a so I will make a strong effort to get some sort of TI emulation working. We will see how it goes. Ultimately though he does have access to a working TI and not the other computers... Well, I might let him use my Mac plus, but not my Lisa... ; )

Edited by MurdockScott
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Regarding the use of an emulator on the Pi, this is an area that has my interest as well. It was suggested that advMess might be a path forward, but that it was an older build. I really like the new way of handling cartridges (single RPK files vs the multiple files of the past). Hopefully someone will provide some more info on what's possible and how we might get it working. RetroPie is great and I'm having a blast with it, but I'd love to get some 4A games going.

 

I'm currently using a Rii i8 mini keyboard. I can definitely see me wanting to upgrade/replace that as it's far too small for anything remotely like touch typing (but it's fine for the odd command line visit).

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Actually on the PI the best emulation (so far) is this package: http://www.mrousseau.org/programs/ti99sim/

 

 

This is definitely the one I planing to attempt first. Although I am not really looking forward to it. I haven't been able to find very much information about how well it works or straight forward install instructions. At first glance, it looks "challenging". I like using old computers... not necessarily the process of setting them up emulations of them. : ) (I understand that is part of the fun for many folks, so perhaps I am just weird.) We will see how it goes.

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Regarding the use of an emulator on the Pi, this is an area that has my interest as well. It was suggested that advMess might be a path forward, but that it was an older build. I really like the new way of handling cartridges (single RPK files vs the multiple files of the past). Hopefully someone will provide some more info on what's possible and how we might get it working. RetroPie is great and I'm having a blast with it, but I'd love to get some 4A games going.

 

I'm currently using a Rii i8 mini keyboard. I can definitely see me wanting to upgrade/replace that as it's far too small for anything remotely like touch typing (but it's fine for the odd command line visit).

 

I found some older threads on AtariAge that would imply that TI emulation in MESS did not function well on the PI 2. It sounded pretty definitive that it was a non starter. I wonder if anyone has tried the JAVA version of V9T9.

 

RetroPie looks like a lot of fun. I have a question for you. Can you remove machines from the list of available choices? Like remove all the arcade and gaming console choices? We already have a mac mini with OpenEMU set up in our entertainment center and I want to make this device less about games and more about computing history. (When my son is older and I give him more control over such things, I am sure every game console possible will get turned back on). As far as a keyboard goes, let me know what you find. I am looking as well. I have this secret hope that I can find a mini keyboard that will nestle into the "well" left on a TI case if I carefully remove its own keyboard. I seriously doubt I can find something that will naturally fit... that would be nice, but a bit of a miracle.

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As long as you dont tear apart a working machine to build this, I see no issue with it. There are a lot of battered vintage computers out there that are good for parts only. Save the pieces that can be reused and then have fun with the shell.

 

I had bought two broken and cracked Commodore Vic 20 computers, I was able to make one working machine from both of them. So after i got my stock Vic-20 working, I still had a cracked case left over (no keyboard). So I filled in the keyboard hole with plexiglass, glued up the cracks, bondoed it, painted it in rubber truck bed paint, then found a flexible rubber keyboard that fit it exactly. I mounted my Raspberry Pi 2 model B in it and have been having fun with it since November.

 

Its no where near perfect, but it was a fun weekend project and it became a classy case for my Raspberry Pi. Its better than tossing out the two cracked shell halves :)

 

2w5pu0k.jpg

Edited by J.Ivy
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I found some older threads on AtariAge that would imply that TI emulation in MESS did not function well on the PI 2.

Yep. The MESS emulation wasn't always that hungry, but the 9900 CPU emulation is now deeper. ;)

 

... the emulated 9900 core, where we already have to consider that the 3 MHz 9900 emulation gives us a 40% CPU load on a current PC system (Core i7), and which makes the Raspi crawl at 20% of the emulation performance.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/237779-the-mame-mess-emulator-starter-batch-v124/?view=findpost&p=3228820

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Yep. The MESS emulation wasn't always that hungry, but the 9900 CPU emulation is now deeper. ;)

 

Yes. Not only that one but the whole emulation is closer to the signal level.

 

As a recent example, I'm thoroughly rewriting the TI-99/8 emulation. In the previous implementation I had a table that mapped the logical or physical addresses to devices (ROM, RAM, memory-mapped). Now in the redesigned implementation we have dedicated classes for the custom chips Vaquerro, Mofetta, and Amigo. Thus it's not a simple table anymore but the operations of those emulated chips that determine the behavior.

 

Will it make the emulation run better? I don't know. It's more a matter of modeling than of usage experience. What I noticed is that the performance is worse (getting below 150% in the benchmark), and I'll have to check whether I can do some optimizations that don't affect the model (e.g. to gather the currently separate grom->m(), grom->mo(), grom->gs() methods to a single one that accepts the state of the three lines (M, MO, GS) in a single call).

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Both the PI 3 and the Budget TI99 of "questionable condition" arrived. Unfortunately the TI99 has a large scratch on the top and some scuffs that the seller must have worked hard to photograph in a way that hid them, but otherwise its a clean unit and since I made a low offer and got reasonable shipping I feel OK about it. My son and I have removed its vitals and stored them away to harvest parts from for my two other TI99s when the need arrises. He had a blast looking at insides of the TI.

 

The PI 3 is a lot of fun. It reminds me of the hands on aspect of the early days of computing, which I guess is the point. To give kids raised using iPads and embedded computers a chance to have that same type of experience. When my son saw the GPIO connector on the PI he got excited and ran across the room to check if it was the same type of pins that connect to the servos on his robot arm. (Smart little guy, I did a little research and apparently people have indeed interfaced the PI to that kit!) We have installed Raspian and I am experimenting with RetroPie. I might try take a look at Chameleon also as it seems less "game focused" and more about classic computers. I am taking my time and planing the best way to put the PI in the TI case but I think I have a really fun plan... more to come.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, aside from getting a LED for the front and maybe a power switch. I think we are done with the physical aspect.

PI994a 2192

PI994a 2193

PI994a 2199

PI994a 2203

PI994a 2205

PI994a 2208

PI994a 2210

It was pretty simple to build, it all fit together amazingly well, no real electronics skill involved... more of an art project. The only challenge came from finding the right parts and discovering the best way to place everything. The HDMI cable is too thick and inflexible, we should have paid the extra for the lightweight version. I still need to get some proper cable fasteners to keep everything in place. Also, if you notice the GPIO is right under the cartridge slot. This is by design as I want to run a ribbon cable up and have it so he can putt it out from that opening to work on electronics projects.

 

I feel I am close on getting ti99sim to work, I am getting an error, but I think I may have converted some Roms that it doesn't like.

Edited by MurdockScott
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Maybe the TI rom, as it is case sensitive you need to rename it (see my instructions in the other thread). For the CTG, try first with the one in the instructions those work

(I also had issues converting .bin to .ctg files some time ago, I have not tried with the latest TI-99/SIM version, but the .ctg in that link in the installation instructions

all work on TI-99/SIM on Linux, SonyPSP, RetroPi.

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Maybe the TI rom, as it is case sensitive you need to rename it (see my instructions in the other thread). For the CTG, try first with the one in the instructions those work

(I also had issues converting .bin to .ctg files some time ago, I have not tried with the latest TI-99/SIM version, but the .ctg in that link in the installation instructions

all work on TI-99/SIM on Linux, SonyPSP, RetroPi.

 

 

I will do that. Like many of us, I have a collection of these files, so I was just making attempts based on what I had on hand.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Recommended Ti rom files worked.

I attempted to convert my own cart collection... and failed.

Recommended collection of carts already in .ctg format mostly work.

I built (hacked) a system to hold optical cable over the PI 3's activity LEDs and run that cable to the front of the TI994a case... yeah, I'm goofy like that.

Measured and built a 40pin ribbon cable to run from the GPIO out from the cartridge slot to a PiCobbler and breadboard. Can be tucked away when not in use.

 

Ti emulation running under Raspbian and my son has spontaneously made a program in TI Basic to amuse himself without any prodding from me... FTW!

 

Thanks for all the help I have found on these forums, what great people here. : )

 

Pictures of the last mods and working emulation coming soon...

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  • 2 weeks later...

My 7 year old son is at this very moment using a Linux terminal window and putting in commands like "ti99sim-sdl dsk1=JHS_FUN.dsk -f XB.ctg" and then once he is met with the familiar cyan screen, he is typing in TI Basic commands like "OLD DSK1.DADDY1" to load basic programs that he and I are working on... He is doing this mostly on his own and I am very happy.

 

Thanks to all the good people here. I have re-learned so many things I have forgotten over the years and also learned so many new things that I never knew. I really appreciate all the information I have gotten from folks at AtariAge, either directly or indirectly. This place is great.

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The important thing is to get them interested, as it may lead them onto interesting paths as they grow up.

 

You said it! Although we have two actual consoles that he has been using now and then for several years, This project was born from the fact that it is not practical for us to have a full TI99/4a system set up at all times. My massive cartridge collection, the data tapes, cassette data recorder, cables, paired with a somewhat small house make it so we just don't have space for that AND a computer that he can use as a general purpose desktop. Plus I have never had a PEB and wanted to give him some better way to save his work in basic... and we certainly could not have had a monolithic PEB set up if we did have one (I wanted one so bad when I was 17).

 

He loves the TI99/4a and I am very happy that it is his first computer. This will give him a way to spend much more time exploring the ins and outs of it. And, if he ever wants, there is a whole world of other vintage emulation to explore. I really want him to get a feel for the history of computers.

 

Someday I hope to invest in a NanoPEB, a few multicarts and one of those fancy F18A's to trick out and condense one of my units. At that point perhaps I can give a real unit a permanent home in our living room entertainment center and move this doppelganger to a small desk area for him. : )

Edited by MurdockScott
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  • 2 months later...

Updated installation procedure of TI-99/Sim (new version) 0.14.0 (25 June 2016) on RetroPie v3.8.1 (4 June 2016):

 

http://www.globeron.com/freedownload/services/TI99/TI-99-Sim-Installation-on-RaspberryPI2ModelB-RetroPieV381-DocV2.pdf

 

 

also see the previous FB posting: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2209774843/permalink/10154007498184844/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Updated installation procedure of TI-99/Sim (new version) 0.14.0 (25 June 2016) on RetroPie v3.8.1 (4 June 2016):

 

http://www.globeron.com/freedownload/services/TI99/TI-99-Sim-Installation-on-RaspberryPI2ModelB-RetroPieV381-DocV2.pdf

 

 

also see the previous FB posting: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2209774843/permalink/10154007498184844/

 

Thanks! As you may have seen, I have it working under one SD card install of Raspbian and we are enjoying that a great deal. But I still have to install it on the SD that my son uses most of the time and have been putting that off. Plus, I also eventually want another SD Card with a straight up RetroPi install. So I will review this information soon! Thanks again for all you effort on this, it has been very helpful.

 

It's kind of hilarious that he has a "TI99/4a" sitting on his desk hooked up to a modern monitor, mouse and keyboard and can switch between working in Scratch, TI Basic, or the Arduino IDE. I wish there was a less "game oriented" implementation of RetroPi that just focused on the classic computers and left out the references to gaming systems. I am sure I COULD customize it... (he said with a crazed look in his eyes)!

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I wish there was a less "game oriented" implementation of RetroPi that just focused on the classic computers and left out the references to gaming systems. I am sure I COULD customize it... (he said with a crazed look in his eyes)!

 

Keep in mind, RetroPie will only show entries for systems where you have ROM files, so if you leave console/gaming ROMs off of your implementation, you could easily have it only display computers (TI, C64, Atari, etc) for which an emulator is available.

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Keep in mind, RetroPie will only show entries for systems where you have ROM files, so if you leave console/gaming ROMs off of your implementation, you could easily have it only display computers (TI, C64, Atari, etc) for which an emulator is available.

 

Yeah, I had been told that and I assumed that if I didn't add anything it would be somewhat of a blank slate... But after I did the standard install I found it made ALOT of reference to game systems and games in general by default and that put me off using it as it is for a young boy who already has plenty of access to games (We run OpenEmu and Steam on a Mac Mini in our entertainment center as well as having a PS3), and I wanted this machine to be more about creating and exploring. RetroPie's default slant towards gaming was one of the driving factors for me deciding to attempt an install of TI99Sim straight onto a regular Raspbian loaded SD card.

 

I meant to work out getting it down to just the handful of systems I wanted after I got that done, but I got busy teaching him (and myself) Arduino stuff. You make it sound like its a simple thing to remove (or perhaps selectively not install) those bits... so I am sure I am making a mountain out of a molehill. Back when I did it the first time, I had never touched Linux in my life, fast forward a few months and I honestly don't even remember what was involved... but now that I am a solid novice, I bet it will be a breeze. : )

Edited by MurdockScott
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