MSX, or Not To MSX?

[Austin]

I'd love to eventually own a MSX. I don't think I'd be able to justify the price, but it has a fantastic library. If you have the money and the space, I'd go for real hardware. (Myself, I'll have to stick with emulation).

[ApolloBoy]

I have an MSX2+ as well (specifically a Sony HB-F1XDJ) and it's a very neat system. I would definitely recommend getting a flash cart for it, as the European resellers have all but utterly destroyed the MSX market these days.

[madhatter667]

There is also the possible option of a MIST? It seems there is an MSX core for it? I downloaded the master file list off the github page, because it almost sounds too good to be true. It would cost about the same as an MSX, and have the ability to load other machines as well. Though, it's still not authentic hardware, the power requirements, and video outs would be a bit more modern, and easily used.

Never heard of this machine until the other day. Trying to do some research on it, find user feedback etc. I really like period equipment though. It's a battle between tastes.

[Newsdee]

I posted about MIST earlier in the thread; check out the Knightmare video with SCC sound

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/250569-msx-or-not-to-msx/?p=3474211

Edited March 28, 2016 by Newsdee

[madhatter667]

That does seem pretty clean. How do you like the MIST? I downloaded the master binary folder earlier because the idea intrigues me, and they take up very little space.

Does replicating in hardware really work better than emulation through software?

[Seob]

Living in msx country. Hardware isn't very hard to come by. But games, espescially konami rom games, are expensive.

But konami games alone are worth owning a msx. Most konami games started there live on the msx. The msx version of metal gear is beter then the nes version imho. Also castelvania, started on the msx as vampire killer.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Seob

[carlsson]

Yet I've read comments that Konami treated the MSX format a bit stepmotherly, like one directional love.

[Newsdee]

That does seem pretty clean. How do you like the MIST? I downloaded the master binary folder earlier because the idea intrigues me, and they take up very little space.

Does replicating in hardware really work better than emulation through software?

 

I really like it but the approach has its quirks. Technically it's implementing a system on a chip; it has very little power draw (less than a Raspberry Pi) and turns on immediately.

I feel it's almost like the originals; but don't take my word for it; I have a Youtube channel where I upload recordings for it which should give you a good idea: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVkYe-Q3XdpwEGEwZ6hZJzw

 

You can setup SD cards to boot a particular core, so I have a small collection of "SD cartridges" which I use to switch systems, plus one general SD to try stuff o several cores.

Downside is that you lose some features from emulators (e.g. no save states are possible); and the video timings are sometimes off for VGA 60hz displays resulting in some imperfections (even so image is much better than composite).

 

One thing to know is that each core is technically its own separate project, so the levels of maturity change. Many are very mature and compatible, others not so much (e.g. Gameboy and SMS).

Still there are 25 cores right now + 6 arcade cores, so plenty to try

[lazzeri]

May I jump in? :-)

 

I am a dedicated collector of MSXs. They were HUGE down here in Brazil in late 80´s and early 90´s, all cool kids had one. Then Amiga came and destroyed everything.

 

Anyway, I digress. As I was saying I am a dedicated collector. I do own about 300 assorted boxed games. They are spectacular, almost every japanese game feels like a "collector´s edition" with hard case and loads of interesting printed material, from stickers (even bumper stickers!) to 100+ pages, full color manuals.

 

Spectacular, no less.

 

About the best "intro" system... I was talking about it with an American last month on MRC. Was it the OP of this thread? Dunno. :-/

 

So... There are basicaly four different platforms:

 

- MSX1: Simplest, common, cheapest. Some very interesting games specially when you look for the "MegaROM" ones. BTW, Opcode is porting those to Coleco + SGM. There is a lot of interesting games for it, a LOT of Spectrum ports, a lot of nice Japanese games - Not only JRPG! And forget about the language barrier, most of it you can play without any hassle. Bear in mind that MSX1 was a little limited (16 colous, 3 audio channels) so it might look like an NES with bad scrolling.

 

- MSX2: Now things get interesting. More colors, more RAM. GREAT games, some very interesting software around. And the computer can still be easily found.

 

- MSX2+: My platform of choice. 19268 colors, a special audio board (MSX-MUSIC, AKA "FM") and in most micros an attached 3.5" drive. With them you can play everything from MSX1, MSX2 and MSX2+, with nice audio. And since discs are compatible with PC all you have do to is create your discs directly on your PC an play, no hassle, no supernatural setups.

 

There are 3 companies that made MSX2+: Sony, Panasonic and Sanyo. I like the Panasonics, they are gorgeous. Sonys are cute. Sanyo... Errr, nevermind. :-)

If you choose to grab a MSX2+ just be sure to grab one with MSX-MUSIC! There is one Panasonic and one Sanyo without it. I think all Sony had it.

 

Also you should look for a computer with 128kb of RAM, native or expanded. It makes a difference.

 

The last one is TurboR. There are 2 models only. They are *EXPENSIVE*, hard to get, and since they don´t use Z80 but R800 for extra speed there are some compatibilities issue.

 

I truly don´t think they worth the trouble. I do have one A1-ST boxed, complete (a TurboR model), but daily I use a MSX2+, Panasonic´s WSX.

 

Also you DEFINITELY should look for a flashcard. Take a look at this one from MSX Cartridge Shop: It is an IDE + flash cart + drive emulator + memory expansion + it have an extra sound chip, SCC, for Konami games. It is a must.

 

http://www.msxcartridgeshop.com/

 

With an MSX2+ and a SCC+ you will be able to play about 99.8% of everything ever made for MSX, including all of the best games.

 

It´s hard to look impartial here, I am a HUGE fan of MSX. :-)

Edited April 1, 2016 by lazzeri

[lazzeri]

Here´s a nice video with 100 MSX1 games. Most of them are really A+.

 

 

You should check some MSX2 game videos.

[lazzeri]

Forgot to mention: Yes, MSX now is VERY expensive to collect. The best, juiciest games sell for about 150-200 USD complete. Some Konami games can sell for up to 600 USD (Magical Tree) or even 1.000 USD (Konami Shin Sinthesyzer).

 

But there is still a lot of nice loose games that goes cheap. But with a flashcart and a drive, there´s not a real problem. Just have fun!

Edited April 1, 2016 by lazzeri

[Tempest]

Exactly... it is a great program!

 

I got around to trying SR but it didn't seem to work. After flashing the game it said something like "Saving Game Settings" and then froze.

[+eebuckeye]

Hm.. worked great for me.. you might try contacting the author.. he is very helpful.

[Nebulon]

The MSX machines from Sony and Panasonic are industrial designed works of art.

 

Being a ColecoVIsion freak myself, I do intend to pick up an MSX or MSX2 someday. I really dig the feel of Z80-based games.

[gladders]

I have a Philips 8235 - like the 8245, but only a single-sided DD 3.5" floppy drive. It suits me down to the ground though - it looks cool, has an acceptable keyboard, and came with a really nice two-button joystick. It's an MSX2.

 

I'd love to know if there's an upgrade I can do to it.

[carlsson]

gladders - Supposedly you can replace the Disk ROM and install some wires, and then use a double sided floppy drive. I've tried three different mods over the last decade on my VG-8235, but still haven't got it to work properly, but it is possibly my after-market drive indeed is single sided only, or I didn't install all the cables at the right places.

 

I know Bas K in the Netherlands, as well as others, sell modified 8235's with double sided drives so it is doable.

 

Supposedly there is also some audio fix you can do, and probably a ton more but it'd be a matter of how complex you want to get and what benefits you get from it.

[gladders]

Stargunner - yeah I could change the DD but I am hoping to replace it with a drive emulator of some sort instead, which should get round the drive's limitations - right?

 

I'd love to discover a means to upgrade it all to an MSX2+...

[carlsson]

You still probably need to change the (EP)ROM with a dump from a 8245. I've read good things about HxD but in case you want to shove in physical floppy disks, they don't quite fit through the USB connector...

 

MSX2+ would involve replacing the VDP, possibly memory upgrades and more. I haven't looked into whether that is easily doable on the Philips models. A friend of mine upgraded his SVI-738 X'Press, which is "MSX1.5" to begin with, to a full MSX2+. In that case, it seems Spectravideo used a few different motherboard versions, and some are easier to upgrade than others.

[darthkur]

I love mine. I use Disk Manager to write stuff to 3.5 floppy's mostly. The MSX 1 Mania collection alone had a myriad of games to choose from. I do have a few carts that I bought years ago but they are definitely on the pricey side now. I really must get one of those flash carts so I can finally fully enjoy the entire MSX library.

 

[youxia]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Japanese MSX2. But I'm in Europe...so now there is the matter of a step down converter, that adds another 40-50E to the price...ugh.

 

I want an NTSC unit because I was under impression that most games were made in Japan, so I'd like to have a more "accurate" machine for games. Is it true though?

[carlsson]

I'm not sure how much of a 50/60 Hz issue you'll notice compared to a PAL MSX2 machine. The Philips ones are plentiful, and usually "good enough" for daily use.

 

Also it seems 40-50 Euros for a step-down is a bit steep. These don't draw hundreds of watts like a PC would, so you can get away with a rather smaller step-down. I suppose none of the power supplies are reconfigurable (unlike e.g. the Astec ones in the BBC Micro which is only two jumpers away from converting from 220V to 110V).

 

Then again I have a feeling that prices have risen all across the board, so perhaps importing one from Japan isn't that much more than getting one from Europe. Of course there already are several Japanese machines brought here that you might find, in order to at least save a little on shipping.

[CatPix]

Some MSX machines (tho probably more MSX1 than MSX2) use external power supplies.

Japan has that 50/60 htz thing so this isn't a concern for you. As Carlsson said, MSX use very little power. A 15/20€ step down transformer should do the trick. You could even use old ones if you have them laying around the house from whenever your country was in 110 volts.

Price would be a concern. MSX2 from Japan, as noted, were build with serious concern for reliability, being targeted in Japan as both gaming but small business machines (or MIDI machines for Yamaha). Last I checked (before COVID, alright) MSX computers were only marginally cheaper in Japan than in Europe, but a wet finger estimation tells me that shipping a MSX2 from Japan will easily add 50 to 80€ to the price, in shipping only.

MSX2 from Philips can be found for between 100 to 150€ in Holland, with maybe a little help from European fellows

For 60 htz, owing to the flexible nature of MSX, an European MSX will run in 60 htz by using a modified ROM chip; for tape or floppy game, it is also possible to swich the MSX in 60 htz mode with a simple BASIC command.

If you're using a Flash cart, ROM might be modified to force the MSX in 60 htz mode but Im not sure how common it is.

Either way, the speed difference between PAL and NTSC on the MSX isn't as important as, say, the Megadrive. Depending on the game you play it may be barely noticeable, it also depends on the person.

Also, most (all?) MSX2 can be upgraded to MSX2+ with mininal modding, up to the point that even back in the 80's, several European computer shops did the upgrade to existing machines or sold MSX2 modified in 2+ despite the 2+ never beeing officially released in Europe.

So getting a Japanese MSX2+ on the ground that you cannot find them in Europea would be moot and certainly not justify the extra bump in price for a Japanese machine. (unless the Japanese machine is extra cheap to begin with).

Now, if you wanna own a Japanese machine because you think it's cool, then, you don't need justification

Edited October 28, 2021 by CatPix

[c0op3r]

I have been wanting an MSX computer for quite some time myself.  I decided that I did not really need an original and to deal with all the issues that might arise:

 

Power (100v Japan, 220v Europe etc)

Possible PAL video

Need for repair and/or upgrade

and Last for me space.

 

So I have been waiting on a MSX-1chip Retro Gaming Restore is going to be making them (eventually)

 

He also makes and sells the Carnivore 2 MSX cart: Link  I got one of those a while back - even though you do not really need it with the MSX -1Chip.

 

If you dont know about the MSX - 1Chip there is a nice Wikipedia article on it: Link

they pop up on eBay every so often but are stupid expensive, I am sure RGR's will be quite affordable.

[youxia]

Thanks, guys, but I was really just wondering about the games. What ~percentage was native to NTSC, and so would run better on an NTSC machine. Of course, these 50/60Hz differences might not be that big, but we're all terminal nerds here, and also I was thinking in regard to the CRT photo project, so aiming for maximum accuracy. In any case I already do have one PAL MSX1...

 

The 1Chip is a cool project, but I already sort of have it too - MiSTer's MSX implementation is basically a port of its core.

 

No matter...I've just ordered a a Panasonic FS-A1 from that Dutch fellow who seems to be the go-to importer in Europe. 240EUR...not cheap, but I haven't really bought anything for over a year and Xmas is coming, so...

 

The need for a power converter is a pain, because they mostly are +40EUR, at least the Japanese recommended ones...but I've found one locally for ~15EUR and will gamble on it. It's 110V...supposed to work ok...but hmmm. But that's the lot of a micro-collector...risky business, really

 

[+eebuckeye]

I have a Panasonic A1 myself and it is a great computer but the built in software when you turn it on is annoying to me.  I heard of people making new bios chips that bypassed it but I have not seen one for sale.  Anyone know?