Administrator shallowness

[ParanoidLittleMan]

This is not about Atari computers, SW, but important people in Atari "scene", or community - call it whatever you like. Some may say that I should resolve my problems with them, and yes, I tried it, I wrote several PMs, e-mails - and it works not - usually no any reply, or just something where no real answer on concrete questions, insults and like.

 

So, we have crew called D-Bug and their site where is page: http://dbug.kicks-ass.net/

Click on tab Extras and go to bottom. - but may read other parts too - that can be informative about their knowledge and up-to date infos - recommended program HD-Copy works not in ant newer Windows v. Interesting for me part is: "

Note: There is a program called FloImg that claims to be working perfectly and can read/write disks on the PC. D-Bug strongly discourages the use of this program, as it is known to wipe out whole Windows partitions without any sort of recovery!!!"

Of course, for many people this is nothing new, it stays there for some 8 years. And that is what is real shame, and shows how our community works not well. I'm sick of seeing that that nonsense jumps in when do some Google searches. Let see just is it possible at all ? Can some floppy SW destroy hard disk partitions ? Even if it uses hard disk access only as file accessing thru OS calls ? Answer is simple - that's not possible at all. The whole claim is utter nonsense. And they added on top of it with that "wipe". It is just obvious that they wrote it in purpose to scare people. Btw. it is version 2 of it - in v1 it was DriveImager what causing damage. What was much more dangerous tool, indeed - because it deals with hard disks - no wonder that user needs admin rights, + there are several warnings.

About 10 years since I released first version of FloppyImager or FloImg passed, and I did not receive any report, or seen any post in forums with concrete damage description. Contrary, I got plenty of thanks, and even financial ones. So, there is nothing from those claims. Hit counter on page with it is on 111085 at moment.

What made me actually to write here is this: http://atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29609

That is most likely just another case of user who did not set it properly. What is sure is that he really did not provide more details on demand of SW author (Steem SSE).

So, after another spotting of that nonsense page, I made there "out of context" post - and it even worked Then admin Dal came in (2 days later) with usual blah that solve issues with D-Bug directly with them , but what is really interesting is: "There is also little hard evidence to prove the statement Dbug make about his menus is accurate as well.". What means that he did not read at all that page - it's not about my menus - hey, I never released some "menu" . It's not even about my patches, but util SW for Windows. Thank you very much Dal, for your shallowness ! Then he wrote off-topic blah about no bigger problems with (hard disk) patches. And asked to stay on topic. What is what I did in my next post, but it was taken as bad apology or whatever. Excuse me - I should apologize for what ? To being not serious in non-serious thread ? Or to D-Bug ? Huh, they expect it, I'm sure, because they ego is big as mountain, while their site is now just some kind of museum - nothing new there, no even fixes of reported and known bugs. Last threads in forum are just silly praises of their menu disks. If someone writes there about bugs, errors in them it is deleted

So, I got 7 day ban because "inappropriate" comments and "attempt to take the final word as some kind of personal victory". Just shallow as always. What I wrote was very on topic. There is lot of issues with menu disks - sensitive on TOS versions, RAM sizes and like. When you run them in Steem SSE, with lot of very specific settings, hard to understand even for experts often, that will make real mess, and people lost in all it. I appreciate work of Steven Seagal on Steem updates, but truth is that I do 99% of adapting in good old Steem 3.2 . Because it's much easier and safer way, There is already enough trouble with bad code in SW, so I don't need more. Time is greatest value - that's what you will realize when reach some age

Thread is not over, SS called at least 2 people trolls there - what is maybe just usage of bad word, or he is too sensitive too. C.J. claims SW bug - but that's very unlikely case, myself tried it with diverse settings, and error never happened. So, maybe just clean install of Steem SSE ?

It would be good, if admin(s) realize that when they accepted that position,. it means some responsibility, and not just power to direct people what to write, and how to write. I did not break any forum rule, it;'s just that they don't like that I point often on negative things (what is what I do here too, right now) . How to resolve them, and where if not in forums ? Of course, it's much easier to ignore whole thing. But problem will not disappear by self. So, yes, I expect that people take side. Some did it already, long time ago - there is D-Bug fanboy people who will take their side whatever they do, lie. But I'm sure that majority can be objective, and see who is bad guy in this case. Even being total absurd, that "wipe" text may be taken seriously by people with low knowledge, or just some prejudices.

D-Bug fans will come here with their blah, that's to expect. I'm not afraid - I wrote this mostly being disappointed by so shallow reaction by Dal. Next time (if it will be at all), please read what is written, and then maybe will understand why is written. You should help people working for Atari community, not some egomaniacs.

[ataricrypt]

Yeah umm I've sometimes seen remarks on the forums and wondered what's gone on to warrant it, and I did wonder how this feud originally started! I read the thread you linked too, I saw nothing wrong as such. Weird how the conversation turned, perhaps they took it that you singled out D-Bug rather than any cracked games? BUT the topic was started with mention of d-bug ......

However, it has been obvious in the past that English isn't your first language and sometimes you might come across a little "cold" (sorry!) but I've never had you down as rude, snide or anything at all remotely similar. We're Atari ST dudes and should get on, it's a great community we have!

 

In all honest Peter, I have emailed you in the past about certain games and questions and even dip switches inside my Mega STe. You've always kindly helped me out. You're a GEM when it comes to your own programs, website, informations and certainly the hard drive adapted games. Where would us Ultrasatan owners be without those games! I do appreciate your help and brilliant works and support of the Atari computer platform. Thank you!!!!

 

I also appreciate the D-Bug guys and wish they would continue their ace patches... Heck, I take no sides because we're all running TOS ;o)

 

Keep up the GREAT Atari ST works Peter and keep on adapting games and everything else you do. #appreciated

Chill out also, its Easter and no work for a few days

 

Steve

[danwinslow]

Uh. Someone is wrong on the internet, film at 11.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

This thread was not intended against D-Bug, nor against Dal. It is against shallowness and incorrect claims. I just want to hear someone to say that here, in our nice Atari community we should not tolerate such things like that quoted one (with bold text in it). It has nothing with quality of mine "patches" - and that's what people often mixes (although with good reason - may see lot of threads with ridiculous blah) .. That's just something worst I seen - and I seen lot of bad things, fortunately really not much in Atari scene.

On top of all it, they talk about some apologize. Well, that would be admitting that they are at least partially right, what is not case. I'm sure that they are aware of silliness of whole thing. But as they don't fix their bad cracks and patches, they don't fix bad claims too. I really can not understand. And even less understand admin, who tries to resolve problems without even reading what is written properly.

Everyone makes mistakes. The real mistake is not admitting it, and not correcting.

[TheNameOfTheGame]

If the problem d-bug warns about no longer exists with floimg (or never did exist) then I see no reason d-bug shouldn't remove the warning or re-word the sentence to elaborate on exactly which version they believe is dangerous.

 

However, no one can force them to change it. Have you tried to ask them? I mean this is the Internet and not everything is going to be exactly like it should (or at least how I think it should haha) (perspective is everything).

 

As for experience, I have used floimg for 4 years and never had any problems. Considering its function I don't even see how it could wipe whole partition.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Yes, I asked D-Bug to remove it. And really will not bother to do it again. Things are that I still believe that Dal is helpful Atari fellow, so I wrote this in hope that he can reconsider some his actions and writes. He is not in easy position for sure, but I think that this case is so clear that needs only little care to make right decision. Ignorance leads nowhere. Problem can be resolved easily - and that's not some forcing of D-Bug to remove it or apologize, or to give proof, He wants that I don't pull it out on AF - easy - just point on that such things are bad, and give support to people working on community support. It's not hard to fix bugs in SW, and I did in many times. Hardest is to deal with people.

[bugs]

I have seen that warning on d-bugs website and im not sure where else. I stayed away from floimg for that very reason. If there was in fact a problem with it in the past the warning should be ammended by D-bug to say hey version 1x had an issue but version 2x is safe to use. Perhaps on your own website you could make such a note next to the file to clear up the disinformation.

 

 

Ppera, your efforts to the community are surely appreciated and I hope conflicts dont dissuade you from the supporting your software and adaptations in the future.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[Dal_1978]

Here we go again...

 

I am going to make one reply to this thread and one reply only, then I'm done with this discussion.

 

Like other admins and moderators the world over, I see my role as one of server and software maintenance, protecting content and generally trying to keep the forum at AF as informative and useful as it can be. Sometimes, we have to step in and provide mediation. Mostly this is easily resolved, sometimes it's less than easy. Today is Good Friday - I wanted to spend the morning with my 5 year old daughter - I ended up having to deal with adults behaving like 5 year olds.

 

I was drawn to a thread from a user asking for support on an issue with Steem running a Dbug disk. The first reply in this thread was a random post from Atarizoll (Paranoidlittleman / ppera / pputnik / PP / Petr) with an out of context quote regarding some accusation about a piece of his software on a third party web page.

 

Alarm bells start to go off.

Apologies to AtariZoll by the way, I didn't realise that quote was about Floimage - I had assumed since the thread was about running a game compilation on an emulator, that your comment was somehow tenuously linked to that. It appears I was wrong and your comment had absolutely no link at all to patched games or indeed the poor OP's request - it was just a cheap shot that could have been fired from any thread. And you think I'm shallow?

 

For those who don't see what goes on, this is because we try to do a good job of tidying this crap up when it has kicked off in the past. That tactic appears to have not worked in the 10 years or so we have all attempted to keep the peace between feuding parties. This time, I have had enough - I don't know about others, but I'm fast approaching 40 and left this kind of BS behind at school. Just so you have an idea, when a user is banned from the forum, it's not an action that is taken lightly. When that same user re-registers again and again using new pseudonyms, we see it a mile off, it is discussed and we often take the view that we will give the guy a chance to prove he has matured. I was the main person who backed AtariZoll on his return to AF after his last hiatus. There were other admins and mods who were less than enthralled. But I try to see the good in people and believe that after suffering a ban and taking some time out, he may actually have the ability to rise above and ignore the bluster.

 

AtariZoll does great work, there's no denying it, people like what he does and he can be very helpful. So can CJ, SHW, GGN, and a host of other developers still taking time out of their lives to do something for the scene.

 

As I have said to others, I find it incredible that grown men can't deal with their differences directly. Especially relating to an issue that matters very little in the wider context of the world, universe et al. This bickering has been bubbling away for nearly 10 years and quite frankly Atari Forum is not the place for it to play out. You either open dialogue directly and fix your issues (have a beer FFS!!), continue with childish retorts on your own webspace, or just concentrate on your own thing without paying attention to those with whom you have issues with.

 

The bottom line is I won't tolerate it on AF. People may wish to search on this stuff in years to come, none of this bickering is going to matter to them. It won't matter to us once we're all dead either.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Dal_1978

[Keops]

Not that again, not here

 

and hi Dal

Edited March 26, 2016 by Keops

[ParanoidLittleMan]

It is not enough to repeat constantly that XY "does great work" . Things are that they have double standards at AF - what is allowed for some is not allowed for some others. Why Dal just did not ignore that post - what was not random at all - it was well thought and posted with intention. Of course, I couldn't predict exactly what will happen, but it went actually pretty well - in my favor - even if it looks exactly opposite.

AF is English language forum, and in last 6 years or so admins are strictly British - interesting is that in same time Mug UK changed his name and avatar Well, I'm OK with English language, even if I never learned it in skool or some curse. But they want that everyone act there as englishman - that's just not fair and not acceptable. Every country, nation has different ways of communication.. Forum is place where people expressing their opinions, experiences. Discussion are part of all it. So, dear Dal, please be fair and allow people to talk and discuss in way they used it at home. We are not barbarians. We just like to say what we think. All bans were total idiocy - just because I criticized some "big" names - GoldRunner, Ijor. All what I said is true and I still stand behind it. They are free to criticize me - and maybe I will instead getting insulted and running to admin like some spoiled child try to understand it, and looking to improve things or self.

Then, was no word about my last post - btw. you don\t need to apologize for your mistake, and bigger one was misinterpreting my words about problems with cracks, menu disks in emulators, what I explained little more here. The whole thread was mistake at start. Just some still don't see, and come with warnigs to SW authors instead to users who know well that should give more details, were asked for, but instead that talk about they found a solution

Edited March 26, 2016 by ParanoidLittleMan

[GadgetUK]

I totally get there's a long standing dispute with both sides here, and I can sort of see why. It was very common in the hacking scene for groups to 'dis' each other back in the day, and I am sure it still happens. It's the competitive nature of people, and yes sometimes it brings out the worst in us all. No one likes a personal attack on something they put time and effort into, and sometimes that can result in a similar response. I think banning people is a bit extreme - if people don't like what someone puts they will ignore it etc. I would also like to add that some people (especially when fueled with anger) can not always consider replying with considerate replies. When it comes to defending yourself about some form of criticism, just remember you aren't the only factor - software speaks for itself, reputation speaks volumes, so sometimes just purely ignoring a negative comment or replying in a way which shows you have no interest in an argument can often strengthen your reputation and your point.

 

I say that the best course of action is for people to say sorry and just move past this (and undo the bans). Life is too short!

[+CyranoJ]

D-Bug have posted on that forum, what?, 10 times or so in the last decade?

 

I know I've only posted to help Bod out with R-Type.

 

If anyone is carrying this on and keeping it alive, it's not us.

Edited March 26, 2016 by CyranoJ

[ggn]

I think that with such a thread topic he's making a helluva case for his un-banning on the other forum!

[Fletch]

I've mentioned it before and will again. Thanks to everyone who have contributed and continue to contribute to our otherwise long dead platform.

 

I appreciate it all and hope time heals whatever issues people may have.

[ataricrypt]

Exactly!! Its like a clash of the Titans here. Ace ST dudes sadly not getting on. Fight for the Atari ST instead, I say

[+CyranoJ]

Exactly!! Its like a clash of the Titans here. Ace ST dudes sadly not getting on. Fight for the Atari ST instead, I say

 

Since all this crap went down nearly, what, seven years ago, I've packed all my ST stuff up and dropped it in a box at the back of the shed. I haven't patched a single title for HD, and I have no intention of ever working on ULS again or making another patch.

 

So, carry on - none of this really matters to me at all!

Edited March 26, 2016 by CyranoJ

[ParanoidLittleMan]

What the Hell you talking here ? Who talked about what and how much D-Bug posted there ? Who talked here about who doing or who not patches ? This is simple case - admin was shallow - but he already saw his first mistake. That alone was worth of starting this.

Unbanning me ? I don't care at all. Forum will lose when I'm away, not me. I did not get there any help from admins, and very little from members. I told it already to Dal, but he just play's his role of serious admin, what he is not.

3 idiotic bans is just too much. They are full of prejudices, and it was well visible in this case too.

I repeat: no resolving with D-Bug is possible. Like in real life - so we have courts, judges. We have blatant idiocy + lie on one WEB site (and I did not include or talk about plenty of even worse claims in diverse forums, that's another story, and I really don;t care about it), and I have right to talk against it any time, anywhere, Do something against idiotic WEB site, or at least convict it, and whole case is over. So simple. This is how one community should work, not by escaping problem. Problem will raise sooner or later again.

[exxosuk]

Well, im a admin there and I stood by you. So im not impressed by that remark about no help from admins.

[Keops]

ParanoidLittleMan: nobody cares, this discussion does not belong here, don't ruin Atariage for us, thanks.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Well, im a admin there and I stood by you. So im not impressed by that remark about no help from admins.

Yes. that's true. But majority is against. And I meant help in my projects, maybe some new forum sections, little reorganize - that was mostly just ignored.

You may see there Paradise, Guardians of the Past sections, barely visited, later is dead project, but they are moderators there, so yes, community needs it

ICS can do what did in this thread: http://atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26876

No, thanks, I'm sick of such double standards. All this drags over years, so I did not react in moment. Glass is just full now.

There are other places, where I can talk freely, not being banned for every critic of some persona or SW.

When I said that Jaguar XJ229 has nice title pic, graphic, but gameplay is bad, I got heavy critic. Excuse me, what for is some forum ?

If they don't want it, then put in forum rules that only being nice, praising SW is allowed. Any critic is bad, that may hurt someone.

Sites with lies are irrelevant, though Do you see how absurd is all it ?

[ParanoidLittleMan]

ParanoidLittleMan: nobody cares, this discussion does not belong here, don't ruin Atariage for us, thanks.

It seems that some care. Thank you for your opinion. I think that it belongs here - AF is part of Atari age (era)

[Tempest]

I think that it belongs here

Actually no it really doesn't. Keep your personal issues with other forums private, this isn't what AA is for.