OPCODE GAMES announces: IntelliXpander - Castlevania & Goonies! RESERVE NOW

[wolfy62]

If a game is pretty crummy for the system you may sell 200 games.

 

If it is great, 500 is not out of the question.

[+DZ-Jay]

If a game is pretty crummy for the system you may sell 200 games.

 

If it is great, 500 is not out of the question.

I believe that D2K was an outlier that sold 500 units, and that 300 to 350 is the ceiling of a very successful game -- and that's in the long-tail, after trickling sales for a few years.

 

As far as I know, even some of those 500 units of D2K took a long time to make it to customers, being mostly in retailers' inventories.

 

Just don't expect such numbers on a regular release.

 

dZ.

[AtariBrian]

If a game is pretty crummy for the system you may sell 200 games.

 

If it is great, 500 is not out of the question.

But of those 500 , 400 go to Cmart

[freewheel]

If a game is pretty crummy for the system you may sell 200 games.

 

If it is great, 500 is not out of the question.

 

A "pretty crummy" game for the system - which we haven't seen many of - sells 100 copies.150 copies at best, if it's been a slow year. Getting much over the 200 hump is the exclusive realm of the top-tier games. DK sold a lot because it was a) fantastic, but more importantly b) came out when there were very few new homebrews coming out, and c) it's been around for years now, with several variants that bumps the sales figures substantially. 500 these days is out of the question unless someone really knocks it out of the park. I'd be shocked if even the GOTYs from the past couple of years have sold that many copies.

 

The only easy way to sell 500 copies would be to make packaging and/or ROM variants. To the tune of 5 or 6 different versions of the package/game. Don't think it hasn't occurred to people

[opcode]

Tonight's screenshot.... surrounded

 

[JohnPCAE]

 

For the record, and I mean this in the politest way possible, I hope this isn't where the Intellivision is going. I like programming to the hardware constraints of the old platforms. If I wanted better graphics, etc I'd just get into NES dev.

 

So don't take this personally, but I hope this remains a niche item at best. It's hard enough to sell X copies of a game with this small community; cutting out the more casual gamers would just make it all the more difficult. And yes, these people do exist - it's not all hardcore AA fanatics buying modern homebrew!

 

Woulda been cool if there was a cost-affordable way to package the new functionality entirely within each cart. I realize how impractical that would be though

 

Maybe look at embedding my text overlay functionality into a cart? An FPGA could easily handle the logic, maybe even a CPLD. I think the toughest thing would be doubling the clock to 7MHz.

[decle]

From: Any new homebrew games coming out before end of year?

 

Eric scared everyone away from releasing any new games!

Nope, we are all just pooling our releases so they are all released on the same day in October, just to give him more reasons to whine...

 

If it is anything like the Coleco SGM title list, wait until Eric sees the IntelliXpander catalogue. He will have kittens!

And I guess this is the critical question with regard to the success or otherwise of the IntelliXpander. Do hard core collectors of boxed homebrew carts with high production values, like Eric, who typically purchase more than one copy of every title, perceive it to be Intellivision? Or perhaps they view it as a rather convoluted means of using Intellivision controllers to play a modern Z80 based console? Which, given the way most people bitch about the self same controllers is pretty ironic.

 

I am reminded of CMart's response to the information that a Unisonic Champion, the little brother of the Intellivision, was available on eBay:

Lol. Cool looking unit but not sure I want to spend that much on something that I have no attachment to.

Admitedly it was priced at many times that of the IntelliXpander.

Personally, I'm with Carl, DZ Jay, mr_me and Freewheel, a system is defined as much by its restrictions as its capabilities. Adding too many capabilities or removing too many restrictions risks losing the character of the platform. You may as well be playing a NES, Hydra or emulated system on a PC. To a small extent this can be seen in the Intellivision Keyboard Component or TutorVision where changes to the video hardware allow wholesale replacement of the fonts being used, giving the titles a rather different feeling.

 

As has already been highlighted, it looks as though the IntellXpander's relationship with the Intellivision will be much more like that of the Sega 32X and Genesis, than that of the Coleco SGM and Colecovision. The SGM only appears to add more RAM and an additional sound chip (although graphics quality is improved if the Colecovision has an F18A VGA card fitted), and as a consequence judging by this video, its games feel similar to Coleco originals. In fact, from the specs it looks as though the SGM is not dissimilar to an Intellivision ECS without a keyboard. However, given the wholesale upgrade of both video and sound capabilities, unless IntelliXpander developers are careful, other than the use of the original controllers, all sense of Intellivision could be lost in their titles.

This is not to say that I am anti new hardware, it is just that, as a developer, I am more interested in designs that target an original Mattel product or potential product, such as the Keyboard Component, Intellivision III or TutorVision, rather than an addmittedly impressive, but rather arbitrary feature set. As Cmart notes, these have a stronger emotional attachment and also allow the possibility of playing more original titles, if any were to become available. As a consequence, there is little or no draw to learning the new paradigms, development tools and testing methods necessary to program for the IntellXpander. Obviously, this barrier may be lower for opcode and other Coleco or Z80 based developers. Although it might be possible to create games that harness the dual processor capabilities of the combined system it will be hard without some reasonably sophisticated tools, most noteably a developers emulator like Jzintv that supports it. As such, I'm not sure I see too many people trying. As a consequence, I suspect that the IntellXpander will primarily be of interest to Z80 developers as a means of leveraging their existing code and expanding their market by making Coleco and other titles (I notice a version of Ultimate's Knight Lore is available on the SGM) available to Intellivision collectors.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

 

decle

Edited August 16, 2017 by decle

[+intellivotion]

(...)

If it is anything like the Coleco SGM title list, wait until Eric sees the IntelliXpander catalogue. He will have kittens!

 

(...)

 

and some of the Coleco SGM titles listed there as planned have been actually released. The list may look even more surprising

[opcode]

This is all dejavu. I went through the same thing with the SGM, and now we have 1,000 units sold, it is a sought after accessory. It is all about the games. Actually the retro space isn't that much different of the modern space. As more and more homebrew games are released, it becomes more difficult to make a game that stands out. For me as a developer, if someone buys my game just to have it in the shelf as part of a collection, then I have failed. And truth is, many homebrews today are selling mostly to the completists. That isn't a good thing for the hobby IMHO. If you don't get people engaged, they eventually lose interest. We can get on a situation similar to the crash, too many games, uneven quality. And after 30+ years, there is also the risk of people getting bored. The IntelliXpander is a chance to upper the your color palette still using the same canvas. Offer something that is fresh and exciting.

 

Finally, I will point out again that we are adding a new video because people here requested that. It wasn't something I had originally envisioned. And the fact we have a waiting list for 100 modules already with little more than a mockup and some screenshots posted so far also looks promising to me.

[decle]

I went through the same thing with the SGM, and now we have 1,000 units sold, it is a sought after accessory.

This is one of my points, I'm not sure that the SGM is really a valid comparison. The changes introduced by the IntelliXpander are signficantly greater than those of the SGM. Although it is early days I think it is clear from the very impressive screenshots you have provided that IntellXpander games have the potential to look much more like something between a C64 and an Atari ST from 1986-1988. Providing the market accepts that this in some sense Intellivision, all good. However, I think there is a non-zero risk that this view is rejected. Obviously, given the effort you have put in I hope that this is not the case.

 

It is all about the games. Actually the retro space isn't that much different of the modern space. As more and more homebrew games are released, it becomes more difficult to make a game that stands out. For me as a developer, if someone buys my game just to have it in the shelf as part of a collection, then I have failed. And truth is, many homebrews today are selling mostly to the completists.

To be honest, I'm not sure the Intellivision physical homebrew market is necessarily about the games. As you say, the market seems to have a relatively large shelf collector contingent, and I don't think this will change any time soon. I'm not sure the quality of the game is a strong driver for these individuals, and judging by titles like Hotel Bunny, it might be more important to focus on packaging quality or adding feelies to turn these collectors on to a product. The relative importance of packaging can also be seen in the fuss over 8K Lock N Chase. I wonder at times what the demand would be for copies of Las Vegas Poker & Blackjack carts with Quake labels, instructions and overlays in a sealed Quake box. Perhaps there is a good, if potentially explosive, experiment there.

 

That isn't a good thing for the hobby IMHO. If you don't get people engaged, they eventually lose interest. We can get on a situation similar to the crash, too many games, uneven quality. And after 30+ years, there is also the risk of people getting bored.

Agreed, however, retro is all about nostalgia. The ability to stimulate the interest of people who did not experience the consoles in the 80s will be very limited. I suspect it is inevitable that the market will dwindle over time, until you are left with the video game equivalent of antique collectors.

 

The IntelliXpander is a chance to upper the your color palette still using the same canvas. Offer something that is fresh and exciting.

 

Finally, I will point out again that we are adding a new video because people here requested that. It wasn't something I had originally envisioned. And the fact we have a waiting list for 100 modules already with little more than a mockup and some screenshots posted so far also looks promising to me.

Certainly the the IntelliXpander provides a greatly expanded scope. And I accept that the video enhancements were requested. However, whilst the customer is always right at the point of sale, it is also true that they do not always ask for what they really want before they actually hand over the cash.

 

The STIC video chip really is the heart of the Intellivision, it defines so much of the system's behaviour and even the CPU is essentially subservient to it. It is also deeply flawed. It is perfectly possible to specifically address some of these weaknesses and enable superior games. For example, creating a STIC with expanded GRAM to 2K would enable full screen monochrome bitmapped graphics. If combined with greater access to GRAM titles like Knight Lore are achievable. Making use of the redundant bits in BACKTAB might increase the concurrent colours available, creating more colourful backgrounds. Increasing the number of sprites without changing the bizarre resolution and scaling capabilities would enable more or more highly coloured characters.

 

Providing things like the 4:5 pixel aspect ratio and 5:3 resolution aspect (160x96), character centric background colour attributes, core font and ironically enough the distintinctive colour palette remain I suspect that the video would retain the Intellivision feel. That is not to say that these things must be held exactly as they are, it is just that changes in these areas should be done with greater care. For example it may be possible to double the screen resolution to 320x192, or add additional colours if the new ones are half or double the hue or saturation of the existing palette. Now obviously, you may have considered and tested these things, and again it is difficult to judge from the screenshots and what has been shared, however, I'm not sure I get the sense that this has been considered yet. My apologies if I am incorrect.

 

I guess my point is that I hope that the objective of the IntellXpander is to have more Intellivision, not just more. And I suspect that target could be rather more difficult than it might initially seem.

 

 

decle

[opcode]

We had those technical discussions a while ago. By then it was defined that the color palette would be 4096 colors as we assumed that is what Mattel was referring by "infinite colors".

 

Being right to the point, you can bet I am all open to discussing this and deciding things with you and other developers here regarding the specs. Things like color palette and color limitations would all be discussed and set. That is, as long as the goal is to reach something more than just complaining it isn't the Intellivision anymore. If you would like to discuss, please let me know.

[opcode]

Removed, double post

[mr_me]

...

Finally, I will point out again that we are adding a new video because people here requested that. It wasn't something I had originally envisioned. And the fact we have a waiting list for 100 modules already with little more than a mockup and some screenshots posted so far also looks promising to me.

This is when the project changed from Intellivision graphics to a new graphics processor. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266909-intellixpander-module/?p=3799476

Then it became Intellivision III-like graphics, and then back to just improved graphics. The 4096 colours came from the Intellivision III spec, 16 colours defined by 12 bits each, four bits for each of red/green/blue.

 

What exactly are the specs of the new graphics processor?

 

The idea of flooding a market causing a crash is a myth. Choice is not a bad thing and will encourage Intellivision programmers to make better games. Good games should sell and bad games shouldn't be put on cartridges.

Edited August 16, 2017 by mr_me

[opcode]

256x192

8x8 pixels tiles. 2bpp.

16x16 pixels sprites. 2bpp

Hardware scroll

16KB VRAM

[decle]

We had those technical discussions a while ago. By then it was defined that the color palette would be 4096 colors as we assumed that is what Mattel was referring by "infinite colors".

 

Being right to the point, you can bet I am all open to discussing this and deciding things with you and other developers here regarding the specs. Things like color palette and color limitations would all be discussed and set. That is, as long as the goal is to reach something more than just complaining it isn't the Intellivision anymore. If you would like to discuss, please let me know.

 

I probably should have made my comments via PM rather than polluting the thread. My apologies.

 

While I'd be pleased to contribute to the IntelliXpander if I can, in reality I'm not sure my thoughts are really what you are looking for. Although I was once a homebrew completist, a lack of time to play the games means I no longer collect cartridges. As a developer I suspect my Intellivision output is regarded as a bit bonkers and even if I produced something worthy of a physical release, I don't think I have the time, skills or patience to publish cartridges. It all looks too hard from a testing, logistics and customer management perspective. So in that sense the IntelliXpander is a bit out of scope for me.

 

I guess I should not have mixed in at all, and you would be well within your rights to call me out for doing so. I think my reason for failing to resist the urge to comment, is my interest in the dynamics of our little market. The IntelliXpander is a very interesting addition to the Intellivision ecosystem, which caused me to ask the rather philosophical question of what is and is not Intellivision of myself. I probably did not need to share my opinions on the answer, and the stream of consciousness got rather out of hand from there.

 

Anyhow, I sincerely hope the IntelliXpander, like everything that people take the time to produce, is a rip roaring success that increases interest in the Intellivision and grows the market.

 

 

Cheers

 

decle

[m-crew]

The idea of flooding a market causing a crash is a myth. Choice is not a bad thing and will encourage Intellivision programmers to make better games. Good games should sell and bad games shouldn't be put on cartridges.

 

Well said mr me, It will encourage quality over quantity that's for sure. If there is a constant stream of games released , people(like me) will have to make choices of which games to buy, unless they have an unlimited amount of income..

 

Like I said before looking forward to this release and hopefully the cost of new games will be lowered somewhat. The exchange rate for us Canadians at 30 to 40 % is making the cost of buying new releases well over a 100 dollars with shipping...

 

Cheers !!!1

[opcode]

I probably should have made my comments via PM rather than polluting the thread. My apologies.

 

While I'd be pleased to contribute to the IntelliXpander if I can, in reality I'm not sure my thoughts are really what you are looking for. Although I was once a homebrew completist, a lack of time to play the games means I no longer collect cartridges. As a developer I suspect my Intellivision output is regarded as a bit bonkers and even if I produced something worthy of a physical release, I don't think I have the time, skills or patience to publish cartridges. It all looks too hard from a testing, logistics and customer management perspective. So in that sense the IntelliXpander is a bit out of scope for me.

 

I guess I should not have mixed in at all, and you would be well within your rights to call me out for doing so. I think my reason for failing to resist the urge to comment, is my interest in the dynamics of our little market. The IntelliXpander is a very interesting addition to the Intellivision ecosystem, which caused me to ask the rather philosophical question of what is and is not Intellivision of myself. I probably did not need to share my opinions on the answer, and the stream of consciousness got rather out of hand from there.

 

Anyhow, I sincerely hope the IntelliXpander, like everything that people take the time to produce, is a rip roaring success that increases interest in the Intellivision and grows the market.

 

 

Cheers

 

decle

Absolutely, I am looking for feedback. No issues here. I just wanted to point out that there are things I can do, like change specs and try to make it more compelling to developers here.

[+DZ-Jay]

Choice is not a bad thing and will encourage Intellivision programmers to make better games.

... Or to ignore not completely. Just saying...

 

Time will tell.

 

 

UPDATE: People need to relax a bit on the hyperbole. If it is something we know well in this community is that not just because you built it, it will be sold, and even if it were sold, it may not be used or adopted.

 

Just ask Elektronite and LTO, and the many who attempted, for example, to create a different kind of hand-controller.

 

My comments were not meant to "complain" about it not being "Intellivision," but to add some needed sanity to this discussion.

 

Any new platform (and lets not kid ourselves with clever labels, the IntelliXpander is a brand new platform) requires customers to buy it and developers to support it.

 

So far there's a lot of one and not the other, and we've tried to offer some views as to why the device may not excite too many developers in this community -- or at least why some of us may not be interested, regardless of its many merits.

 

Now, that is not to say that it will fail, or that we wish it to, but should suggest that just adding a laundry list of features that appear to transform the platform and move it even farther away from its roots may require some consideration.

 

The biggest problem I see with adoption is the programming model. If it is not supported by the current tools and languages, appeal may be limited.

 

Again, this is because the community is so small.

 

Of course, this device has the opportunity of bringing in developers from other platforms, but at that point it needs to compete with every other platform out there, some of which offer a deeper emotional connection than a brand new one.

 

So, TL;DR version: it's a fine device, I wish it luck, but its fate (for good or ill) is not as certain as everybody is making it out to be. Ignore at your peril.

 

dZ.

[opcode]

We won't know until and when it is out. Following my intuition and experience here. While I understand it may not be for everybody, so far I haven't get any negative feedback outside the programmers' circle, and that for me is dejavu, I got the same reaction with the SGM.

[wolfy62]

The funny thing about this thread to me is that,

 

A couple of people will comment on it and never buy it regardless,and 200 people you will not hear from at all until you are selling it will.

 

I think this will go well because it looks like a great project,and I am an optimist anyway.

 

Keep up the great work, cool stuff! Thank you, Wolfy

[mr_me]

... Or to ignore not completely. Just saying...

...

If this means Intellivision programmers might ignore it, that wouldn't be surprising. And it may not matter; when you look at what they were able to produce for the SGM; even one or two programmers might be okay.

 

The funny thing about this thread to me is that,

 

A couple of people will comment on it and never buy it regardless,and 200 people you will not hear from at all until you are selling it will.

 

I think this will go well because it looks like a great project,and I am an optimist anyway.

 

Keep up the great work, cool stuff! Thank you, Wolfy

This is true of most all internet forums. Only a small percentage of even those that read an internet forum bothers to post comments. It's difficult to gauge what people are generally thinking based on the comments in an internet forum.

 

256x192

8x8 pixels tiles. 2bpp.

16x16 pixels sprites. 2bpp

Hardware scroll

16KB VRAM

How many 16 pixel/2bpp sprites per scanline? sprite hardware zoom?; sprite hardware rotation? any 3D capability or other advanced graphics?

Edited August 17, 2017 by mr_me

[Carl Mueller Jr]

As long as you're still taking ideas, this would be my personal ideal for an add-on module that expanded the stock capabilities of the Intellivision:

- ECS support (8-bit RAM, second PSG, two controller ports)

- Intellivoice support

- Tutorvision support (3 additional pages of GRAM) (should also actually be compatible with Tutorvision cartridges, which we will no doubt see reproductions of soon).

- Clean composite and S video-out (may only be possible with Intellivision II or modified a model 1)

Not only would this be 100% Intellivision (and no one could argue that), but the additional three pages of GRAM would add significant capability to the Intellivision, including a bitmapped display. You could also do things like preloading sprite animations in GRAM, freeing up precious VBLANK cycles, making things like true software sprites far more practical (in a way, breaking the 8 sprite limit). Also simplifies programming large scrolling backgrounds, so you don't have to worry about reloading GRAM for different areas of the map.

I can see RPGs, text and graphical adventures, driving games, vector games, first-person perspective games, etc. etc. being particularly stunning under this configuration.

It also has the advantage that developers need not modify their development systems (or very little), emulators would only require slight tweaks for the additional GRAM pages, and having a single all-in-one add-on unit would be pretty slick, particularly if there was cases for both the Intellivision I and II.

Heck, even I buy one of these things and I don't even own an Intellivision at the moment.

Carl

[artrag]

All is about the game library the new hardware will be able to get.

I think that the sgm success on cv is largely due to the fast msx ports and to the easy adaptation of msx projects to the new hw. SGM developers are msx developers or cv developers using more ram.

Not sure if you will get the same success here, with a 'generic' retro machine from an alternative past.

Edited August 17, 2017 by artrag

[opcode]

Isn't it funny that the MSX ports are what people usually complains the most about the SGM? i believe that having more Intv focused games with the IntelliXpander is more important than having a large number of ports.

 

I am an user too, and I know what I would love to see as an Intv user. The response so far seems to indicate a lot of people share the same view. I understand there are other views though. No problem with that.

 

Guys, I need help! Does anyone here have a spare Intv II power supply for sale? I need to take one of those with me to Brazil for testing. Kind of urgent. Please contact me inbox if you can help me.

[+DZ-Jay]

Isn't it funny that the MSX ports are what people usually complains the most about the SGM? i believe that having more Intv focused games with the IntelliXpander is more important than having a large number of ports.

 

That's up to the developers, right? I also wish for more original Intellivision games, but that doesn't happen too often around here, unfortunately.

 

The point that was made above about MSX ports is that it attracts MSX programmers with an affinity and experience in that platform.

 

If it is just a completely different platform to all others, not strictly Intellivision or MSX or NES or whatever, what is the attraction to programmers (and I don't mean me, I mean external to the community, in general)?

 

There are a gazillion platforms out there for which to program, some even superior to the Intellivision with or without the IntelliXpander; and the most popular ones are the ones that trigger an affinity due to nostalgia or familiarity.

 

There is a serious risk there. This is not to denigrate the device, just offering a practical perspective, which I hope you appreciate. Saying "dejavu" and assuming all things are equal, may not be to your advantage.

 

I am an user too, and I know what I would love to see as an Intv user. The response so far seems to indicate a lot of people share the same view. I understand there are other views though. No problem with that.

 

The response so far has been from collectors who will buy anything "Intellivision," so that gives you one side of the equation. Remember they can only buy what is actually produced. If all those cool and original games don't materialize, it doesn't matter how much they wish them to.

 

It would be interesting to know the views of programmers outside the Intellivision home-brew community, and get a feel for their interest as well.

 

dZ.