Content Parameters

[BladeJunker]

Was thinking I don't really know what format Jaguar art assets are in, I have some ideas from looking but need some comfirmations. Actions speak louder than words and it would be nice to see some art assets posted for the Jaguar like I see on other parts of AtariAge, also abroad on pixel art and 3D modeling sites. I think at least part of what prevents it is ignorance on where to start and what form content takes.

Idk I think these are general enough to post here instead of Programming, basic parameter stuff. Please answer anything you can or wish to.

-What extension did developers use for bitmaps, are PNGs okay?

-Has anyone made a converter for Blender files? Figure that is a good tool to support, free to get, works pretty good.

-It says 2MB but how much of that can I really use for assets?

-I'm guessing texture maps are based around an 8-bit global palette most of the time because of video memory limits towards 3D rendering. 1 8-bit palette is plenty but wondered is 2 palettes or more is reasonable EG. 1:Texture Maps + 1:Sprites?

-I'm assuming alpha masking is colorkey based rather than done with texture passes of a separate texture layer? Because of that I'm guessing smoother blending of the edge would require dedicated palette space to do better than 1-bit alpha masks.

-I see 16-bit and 24-bit color is possible but I assume that is more likely in 2D only looking at most Jaguar titles, a 2D engine having more memory free?

-I'd never try higher than 320X240 in 3D but how high can you go in screen resolution for 2D, does it support many modes? Pretty limited application for pushing screen resolution but maybe for pinball games, GUI menus, puzzle games.

-Could you raise screen resolution more in 2D games if you keep the number of layers low like 1 or 2? Like an extreme amount of parallax could get no better than 240p but if I used an NES small art footprint and stuck to one 8-bit style layer, any higher?

-Does it do double wide pixel modes since it might be fun to do game graphics like the 7800 and C64 sometimes? Has anyone made any 7800 or Lynx emulators for Jaguar and was it full screen or letterboxed?

-The Jaguar supports 4-bit, 2-bit. At a sacrifice of color could I gain much more asset space doing that? I see all depths are supported simultaneously which is great.

-What does Monochrome mean and do on the Jaguar, is that a screen mode?

-Bitmap storage looks like atlas/composite based rather than archives of individual files? Makes sense in cheaper sorting overhead and lack of texture filtering.

-Mipmapping seems present in some games, how many levels do you think are reasonable on Jaguar None, 2, 4, 8? I remember my buddy calculating Full mipmaps and it was like 33% more space IIRC.

-Is the Jaguar restricted to powers of 2, heard the 3DO didn't but that was very uncommon?

-Looks like 3D engines prefer a default size in texture map, how big in resolution has been possible like 64X64 and 128X128 on average I'm guessing?

[Rick Dangerous]

Whatcha talking about Willis?

[Zerosquare]

Don't get me wrong, but what is the point of all these questions? Are you developing something on the Jag?

[BladeJunker]

Don't get me wrong, but what is the point of all these questions? Are you developing something on the Jag?

I have a question for you, why do so many people ask "What is the point of this and that?", why collect, why try, why breath?

[BladeJunker]

Whatcha talking about Willis?

Idk, I'm doing okay, I work sometimes, I'm not dead like my other co stars from Different Strokes. The straight and narrow, stay off the drugs, life is good.

[Zerosquare]

I have a question for you, why do so many people ask "What is the point of this and that?", why collect, why try, why breath?

Because we've had dozens of topics of people asking questions over and over again, and never actually doing anything with the answers they get, or get into arguments when they get answers they don't like. So before spending time answering questions, I like to know if there's an actual point.

[+CyranoJ]

Because we've had dozens of topics of people asking questions over and over again, and never actually doing anything with the answers they get, or get into arguments when they get answers they don't like. So before spending time answering questions, I like to know if there's an actual point.

 

Plus, if you want to write 24 bit 60fps 3D games there are these things called OpenGL and Direct3D.

[Atlantis]

Start tinkering, and ask questions at mid field when in dev hell, as actions speak louder than words.

Don't think people want to answer wall of text for one guys amusement. This place is about pain not pleasure

Edited April 23, 2016 by Atlantis

[BladeJunker]

Because we've had dozens of topics of people asking questions over and over again, and never actually doing anything with the answers they get, or get into arguments when they get answers they don't like. So before spending time answering questions, I like to know if there's an actual point.

So you take the time to complain to me about something you could just avoid entirely by skipping the thread, why did you spend time on that rather than the questions? Still makes no sense, you don't have to respond to everything that comes up, cut out the middle man with no response if this burdens you ijs. I'm pretty new to the Jaguar, I can work the Search function and the Pinned topics but you know how it is, sometimes things are short and sweet, others are like mining gold from.

 

I can't make you any promises on a finished project, very few people can, lots of cancellations. The very least I can accomplish is a more lay description of the hardware capabilities which is faster compared to directing every person to the technical doc which they may or may not understand.

I'm dumb and often the wording of technical function makes little sense to me no matter how many times I read them so thus questions to get at the meat of what I seek, how to craft content within range. The structure of the technical description makes sense to programmers I'm sure but to the rest of the population it is "Stereo Instructions", when you read the specs you can probably lift tons of meaning from it and even have contextual knowledge to draw from but not so for me.

 

My nearest estimate of accomplishment would be a little more knowledge for the average people on this forum for this console, a little less ignorance of the Jaguar throughput overall, and a basic parameter to which content can be crafted to. If you're worried about too many half baked designs on the forum, don't because that is a paranoid fantasy that the number of people interested in making Jaguar homebrews could actually reach the status of a flood. Even if project designs stall maybe it will inspire somebody else, idk about you but I need a little inspiration once and a while.

 

I got a few ideas brewing but I'm learning more to not jump the gun and disappoint people with premature stuff. Actually had one guy looking to make a homebrew with me but since he was doing something that would benefit the Genesis greatly I've just been trying to get my shit together better before I present a full project.

[BladeJunker]

 

Plus, if you want to write 24 bit 60fps 3D games there are these things called OpenGL and Direct3D.

Yay no more new 3D games for the Jaguar, the crowd cheers. Homebrewers everywhere realize they can make iOS games much faster and easier than on ancient hardware. Around the world people start taking all their retro consoles to recycling because we all agreed just how nuts we were for loving old hardware in the first place.

 

This coming from a guy who makes homebrew for the platform and ports even older game to it. I love what you do but your shitting on my humble efforts.

[BladeJunker]

Start tinkering, and ask questions at mid field when in dev hell, as actions speak louder than words.

 

Don't think people want to answer wall of text for one guys amusement. This place is about pain not pleasure

Man I'd love to do what CyranoJ and many others do, I'd never stop acting instead of talking about stuff. Some people just can't do things but they can help others still.

 

Well that is just a sad state for this forum, I wonder why all the pain, I thought this was for fun? If that is the status of things here please just say nothing, easiest thing in the world to do, really. If that is the way it is let this thread sit forever unanswered if that is what you want.

[+CyranoJ]

Man I'd love to do what CyranoJ and many others do, I'd never stop acting instead of talking about stuff. Some people just can't do things but they can help others still.

 

Well that is just a sad state for this forum, I wonder why all the pain, I thought this was for fun? If that is the status of things here please just say nothing, easiest thing in the world to do, really. If that is the way it is let this thread sit forever unanswered if that is what you want.

 

Well, no, I'm not.

 

But your talking about 24bit 3D graphics. So you may as well know now that if you want to do that, you'll fail.

 

For reference, if you want to take a look at another who has 'promised the earth' and delivered sweet f. all - search the forum for Vladr. Again, not saying you'll deliver nothing, but everyone here is a little jaded at promises with no substance behind them.

Edited April 23, 2016 by CyranoJ

[skip]

BladeJunker - why not start by downloading RB+ and playing around with the examples? And, once you've started, perhaps ask questions in the programming forum.

I've yet to start tinkering with the Jag and likely won't for a long time. Some of the questions you've asked are relevant to my interests too, but I reckon the programming forum is probably the best place for these sort of questions.

Edited April 23, 2016 by skip

[+CyranoJ]

BladeJunker - why not start by downloading RB+ and playing around with the examples? And, once you've started, perhaps ask questions in the programming forum.

 

I've yet to start tinkering with the Jag and likely won't for a long time. Some of the questions you've asked are relevant to my interests too, but I reckon the programming forum is probably the best place for these sort of questions.

 

^^ Exactly.

 

if you start playing around and get stuck, you'll find people more than willing to help. Knowing the file formats for 3D models is not where jaguar game development begins.

[Atlantis]

Well that is just a sad state for this forum, I wonder why all the pain, I thought this was for fun?

I was only kidding. Everyone is free to post what they like within the rules of the forum, and all others are free to respond as the like within the forum rules. If you ask questions, why can't others ask you questions?

 

There's pretty much stuff coming out on Jaguar even 2015 and 2016, some say Jaguar is bigger than ever.

[BladeJunker]

 

Well, no, I'm not.

 

But your talking about 24bit 3D graphics. So you may as well know now that if you want to do that, you'll fail.

 

For reference, if you want to take a look at another who has 'promised the earth' and delivered sweet f. all - search the forum for Vladr. Again, not saying you'll deliver nothing, but everyone here is a little jaded at promises with no substance behind them.

Heh I'm just busting your balls. I actually think your pursuit of ST titles is good, just like the Saturn there are many good 2D games to do.

 

Funny you mention 24-bit since I thought I might at least get your thoughts on the mode,please. What would you do with that, like procedural rendering demo stuff?

 

Lol I never promised the world. I just look around at Pixeljoint, Polycount, Pixelation, and Indie game sites. Maybe people shouldn't assume promises unless they are actually said or implied, like delivering a new retro console for example. I just see a lot of cool content out there that could work on the Jaguar and to me the console is just a big ball of potential, not a fixed variable.

 

As far as promises, I promise to nurture growth in Jaguar interest, I think that is all I can realistically promise.

[BladeJunker]

BladeJunker - why not start by downloading RB+ and playing around with the examples? And, once you've started, perhaps ask questions in the programming forum.

 

I've yet to start tinkering with the Jag and likely won't for a long time. Some of the questions you've asked are relevant to my interests too, but I reckon the programming forum is probably the best place for these sort of questions.

I will do that, thanks for the directions, keywords are everything and I don't always have any.

 

I came with mostly basic questions and didn't ask anybody to answer all of them, some people just see a wall of text(On a mobile?), an assignment or job I guess. I'd be happy if even 4 questions were answered or even to hear their thoughts or opinions on the hardware parameters. Every bit helps.

 

I'm used to the rigidity of the platform audience but its never been quite this hostile before, well it was a rough start at Sega-16 with one guy probably because of my icon design.

[BladeJunker]

 

^^ Exactly.

 

if you start playing around and get stuck, you'll find people more than willing to help. Knowing the file formats for 3D models is not where jaguar game development begins.

Oh sure content isn't much good without code to drive it. But if nobody makes content for the Jaguar aren't you kind of left borrowing assets or seeing what you can come up with in Photoshop? With the 2600 I concluded it was heavily steeped in the "one man band" structure because of the limitations but the Jaguar is diverse enough in rendering quality that it can accommodate more than only one programmer.

[BladeJunker]

I was only kidding. Everyone is free to post what they like within the rules of the forum, and all others are free to respond as the like within the forum rules. If you ask questions, why can't others ask you questions?

 

There's pretty much stuff coming out on Jaguar even 2015 and 2016, some say Jaguar is bigger than ever.

Sorry I missed the joke. I just remember a thread about Knight Rider that might have been a troll but it could have just been a naive hopeful wanting a 2600 game of his favorite show and he got way, way, way too much flack for it.

 

People can say whatever they like, but if somebody stops by to say I'm wasting their time when they voluntarily waste their own time posting, I cry "shenanigans" to that. I think people forget you can just ignore things on the internet, you can just skip whole sections filled with things you don't like rather than complaining.

 

Too right, better than ever for the Jaguar. I just can't abide by concrete stances on a mutable platform, like was the Jaguar solely built for classic gaming or was that Atari's attempt to open up to a larger realm of many genres? If it was that I don't think they took advantage of that quite enough.

[+Stephen Moss]

First, if you look for it a lot of the answers you seek are probably already hear on the forum and/or contained in in the Jaguar documentation. As nobody has actually answered the questions I will those I am reasonable certain I know the answer to.

 

In regard to image file formats the Jaguar uses its own version of JPG, there is an Atari utility that converts Targa and GIF to the required format. There is also Linko's Image converter that can convert many image format to that require for the Jaguar, you can download in from the developers section of the u-235.co.uk website.

 

I seem to recall that the Jaguar is capable of producing screens close to HD in resolution (1024 pixels wide) and that someone like Zerosquare or Orion producing a demo showing a Jag showing images in that resolution - if you do a forum search I am sure you will find it on AA somewhere, however that resolution may not be practical for games.

 

I do not know of a Blender converter, I have tried 20 - 30 products for producing 3D objects for the Jaguar, the problem is that all but a couple could correctly produce the .3DS format the Atari conversion software requires.

Anything produced by Autodesk tends to be really expensive but produces usable files (it should they created the .3DS format), the other is Milkshape 3D, you have to pay for it but it is only around 25 Euros and will import objects in formats used by many commercial games so could save time if you can find the free asset you want and just download it.

If you like Blander then you will probably get on with Milkshape, personally I can't get on with the "free hand" nature of either and prefer to use G-Max as it allows me to input precise values. G-Max is also free but unfortunately has its .3DS export functions disable so you have to use the Star Fleet Command exporter and then walk the object through Milkshape to get a .3DS output.

 

 

[BladeJunker]

First, if you look for it a lot of the answers you seek are probably already hear on the forum and/or contained in in the Jaguar documentation. As nobody has actually answered the questions I will those I am reasonable certain I know the answer to.

Thanks, I'm happy with any answers.

 

In regard to image file formats the Jaguar uses its own version of JPG, there is an Atari utility that converts Targa and GIF to the required format. There is also Linko's Image converter that can convert many image format to that require for the Jaguar, you can download in from the developers section of the u-235.co.uk website.

That surprises me about about custom JPG, well JPG at all, makes sense though with regards to 24-bit color images even if low res. I should have expected Targa, that fits with what many developers used at that time. Converters cool.

 

I seem to recall that the Jaguar is capable of producing screens close to HD in resolution (1024 pixels wide) and that someone like Zerosquare or Orion producing a demo showing a Jag showing images in that resolution - if you do a forum search I am sure you will find it on AA somewhere, however that resolution may not be practical for games.

Wow that high, thanks for the reference info, I didn't know any demo maker names. I've seen a few on YT but I don't think they are all up there, had some ups and downs using emulators IE. mostly works.

 

Yeah I never intended to go HD resolution, a lot of consoles can go higher but never really do like the SNES spec of 512X448 lol. My pushes in resolution have been modest so far and only for 2D projects, 384X288, 400X300, and maybe 480X360. But they all depend on how programmable resolution is on Jaguar, having gone through the 90s SVGA phase hardware varies wildly in screen modes supported IE. that one does this mode but that one doesn't.

 

As far as 3D you're just lucky if you can do 320X240 full screen with a frame rate in double digits most of the time at this range of throughput. I think some people think I'd pitch crazy ports like Quake1 even though the Saturn struggled to approximate the PC original.

 

I do not know of a Blender converter, I have tried 20 - 30 products for producing 3D objects for the Jaguar, the problem is that all but a couple could correctly produce the .3DS format the Atari conversion software requires.

Anything produced by Autodesk tends to be really expensive but produces usable files (it should they created the .3DS format), the other is Milkshape 3D, you have to pay for it but it is only around 25 Euros and will import objects in formats used by many commercial games so could save time if you can find the free asset you want and just download it.

If you like Blander then you will probably get on with Milkshape, personally I can't get on with the "free hand" nature of either and prefer to use G-Max as it allows me to input precise values. G-Max is also free but unfortunately has its .3DS export functions disable so you have to use the Star Fleet Command exporter and then walk the object through Milkshape to get a .3DS output.

Didn't think there was a Blender converter yet but I do think it would be a good idea to support a freesource high quality modeling program. Depends on the program but old consoles can inherit some old tools sometimes or difficult content paths. Food for thought, I wasn't making any specific point.

 

I remember Milkshape 3D, it got used a lot for Quake mods, that is probably my best bet but I'll weigh the options. Mostly threads about Blender conversion are more about .3DS changing to Blender format rather than the reverse in my search about it so far.

 

A lot of Jaguar 3D is in prerendering sprites so 3D format shouldn't be an issue there, that is mostly a palettization and exporting bitmap matter. For that I've been plotting out palette index arrangement options but I'll have to see how that jives with GIF and TGA limits.

CGI is a lot better these days and it can apply to the Jaguar to some degree, mostly the display resolution limits how much shows through on Jaguar but we can be certain that 90s 3D rendered models and FMV don't look so good now.

 

I guess with fairly minimal real time polygon rendering it shouldn't be too hard to use any modeling program, even if I don't like the program we're only dealing with basic meshes and poly counts that program preference shouldn't be a problem.

 

You wouldn't happen to know how well the Jaguar deals with triangles versus quads, that gets a lot of debate. I understand the benefits of quads but without triangles its a struggle to transition edge counts up & down in a concentrated manner.

 

Been mulling over variable quad scale on a project as a means of doing interior and exterior spaces effectively, larger scale outside and smaller scale inside. Mostly the matter has been a Poly Count versus Distance versus Texture Scale versus Texture Perspective Correction Subdivision.

Texture scale seems to need to lean towards the larger range based on game examples of textured polygons but I'm not too sure how that applies to the system fill rate? My buddy and I would always discuss this a lot since I'd be shaving as many polygons as I could and he'd say subdivision wasn't that bad for frame rate sometimes IE. small polygonal segments draw faster than big ones. Mostly I've tried to keep it simple as possible based on the requirement of a subdivision pass when textures are used.

 

Thanks again for the post, so much better than debating the "point" of everything.

 

 

[sh3-rg]

-What extension did developers use for bitmaps, are PNGs okay?

There are converters that will take your source images to a format suitable for Jaguar. A non-issue.

-It says 2MB but how much of that can I really use for assets?

You have 6MB(+?) of ROM space to work with and 2MB of 64-bit wide RAM.

-I'm guessing texture maps are based around an 8-bit global palette most of the time because of video memory limits towards 3D rendering. 1 8-bit palette is plenty but wondered is 2 palettes or more is reasonable EG. 1:Texture Maps + 1:Sprites?

The Jaguar display is created line by line, there is no video memory. There is a single 2MB pool of shared RAM for your code/assets. The RISC chips also have very tiny scratchpads. Colour depths will be something you'll arrive at by experimentation.

-I'm assuming alpha masking is colorkey based rather than done with texture passes of a separate texture layer? Because of that I'm guessing smoother blending of the edge would require dedicated palette space to do better than 1-bit alpha masks.

I'm not entirely sure here, it it also seems like you might be imagining some kind of anti-alias here? Yikes. You're welcome to attempt some kind of post-process yourself, but there is nothing in hardware as such. As for alpha effects, Jaguar does not support this. You could create your own routines to handle them or delve deep into the dark arts of the CRY colour system, but it will likely not be suitable or even closely resemble what you are thinking of.

-I see 16-bit and 24-bit color is possible but I assume that is more likely in 2D only looking at most Jaguar titles, a 2D engine having more memory free?

Probably best not to make any assumptions but rather learn through experimentation. If 3D on Jaguar is your goal, maybe it would be worthwhile experimenting with the freely available versions of Atari's renderer? Gorf and Co. did the same back when things were less easy to get into than they are these days - if you're at the point where you are discussing these things you should have little trouble yourself. But if you do come unstuck, just ask here - you'll find the highly knowledgeable users all too willing to help with actual specifics rather than something less tangible such as your list here.

-I'd never try higher than 320X240 in 3D but how high can you go in screen resolution for 2D, does it support many modes? Pretty limited application for pushing screen resolution but maybe for pinball games, GUI menus, puzzle games.

The Jaguar's video setup is highly configurable, but it's dark arts stuff. Read the techref or something like my rB+ beginners guide to how the Jaguar produces its display and that should answer many of your questions. Also look to the kinds of games that released and the resolutions they ran in. (e.g. Doom, with its highly limited engine, didn't have 4x pixels with a 15fps frame cap and no sound just for fun...).

-Could you raise screen resolution more in 2D games if you keep the number of layers low like 1 or 2? Like an extreme amount of parallax could get no better than 240p but if I used an NES small art footprint and stuck to one 8-bit style layer, any higher?

You should really learn more about the Object Processor before heading off down the rabbit hole with such questions, as the answers you think you seek would mostly become apparent without any input from others required.

-Does it do double wide pixel modes since it might be fun to do game graphics like the 7800 and C64 sometimes? Has anyone made any 7800 or Lynx emulators for Jaguar and was it full screen or letterboxed?

As above, Jaguar display is highly configurable. It might be simpler and more useful simply to have your artist produce regular assets in a chunky style, as I did with the Rocketeer "demake".

-The Jaguar supports 4-bit, 2-bit. At a sacrifice of color could I gain much more asset space doing that? I see all depths are supported simultaneously which is great.

Of course, when you have such limited RAM/ROM resources making use of this can be essential. If you'd read up on the way the Jaguar creates the display you'd already already have a better idea regarding this.

-What does Monochrome mean and do on the Jaguar, is that a screen mode?

There are no screen modes in the sense you use that term here. 1 bit per pixel - on or off - black or white - green or aubergine - there or not-fookin-there.

 

...

 

-Looks like 3D engines prefer a default size in texture map, how big in resolution has been possible like 64X64 and 128X128 on average I'm guessing?

3D engines don't have preferences, they are pieces of code written by people who are aiming to achieve specific results and the assets they make use of will have been designed to help achieve the required results. I'd imagine that if you get to the point where you need to answer this question, it would never be a question you'd need to ask...

 

...

 

Now, if you are serious about learning to work with the Jaguar, you maybe should work with one of the existing setups out there as it'll give you a feel for what is possible and how the constraints effect your process. The one I'm familiar with - raptor BASIC+, isn't actually a BASIC at all, it's all C - it's uses a BASIC-to-C pre-process that can be completely bypassed. If you're up to the task of programming Jaguar but don't fancy what you might perceive as the limitations of BASIC, why not experiment with rB+? I'd imagine within a week or two you'd have a much clearer understanding of what the Jaguar is and is not and if it might be something you'd be willing to invest months of your time in to be in a position to create Jaguar games of the nature that interests you.

 

p.s. I was up early this morning and have already consumed 4 cups of pretty strong TEA, so I was at a loose end... not serious amount of precious existence was expended in the creation of this post.

[Clint Thompson]

I seem to recall that the Jaguar is capable of producing screens close to HD in resolution (1024 pixels wide) and that someone like Zerosquare or Orion producing a demo showing a Jag showing images in that resolution - if you do a forum search I am sure you will find it on AA somewhere, however that resolution may not be practical for games.

 

I couldn't find the 1024 wide reference but I did find a mention about 1280x576 interlaced - "A 1280x576x16M image needs 2.88MB of DRAM and the Jaguar only has 2MB! 16-bit color fits in memory and bandwidth, with "only" 1.44MB needed per 1280x576 still image. - KS" My searching ability probably sucks though.

[BladeJunker]

There are converters that will take your source images to a format suitable for Jaguar. A non-issue.

To a programmer I'm sure it is a non-issue. To a doodler it's a path to navigate depending on the color depth and style of graphics used. Different paths for retro style, photorealism, etc. GIF and TGA both offer different things from each other, different strengths and weaknesses.

 

I'm ignorant about how these support aspects come about, what makes a Jaguar support a particular image format but not another?

 

You have 6MB(+?) of ROM space to work with and 2MB of 64-bit wide RAM.

Yeah I think top cart size was 8MB, pretty big for the 90s but it probably would have grew more if the platform took off. I was just laughing with my buddy about the present time we live in where memory is so much cheaper, what an age to live in.

 

2MB is a pretty good size of RAM for the time, a little undersized for 3D but more than capable for 2D.

 

The Jaguar display is created line by line, there is no video memory. There is a single 2MB pool of shared RAM for your code/assets. The RISC chips also have very tiny scratchpads. Colour depths will be something you'll arrive at by experimentation.

I see that is the rub/versatility, very much like its ancestors. That's the tricky part actually getting into the guts if of it, makes questions about it hard to answer or even ask. I could see how that would be a tighter fit with the shared space and being variable there is no one answer.

 

I'm not entirely sure here, it it also seems like you might be imagining some kind of anti-alias here? Yikes. You're welcome to attempt some kind of post-process yourself, but there is nothing in hardware as such. As for alpha effects, Jaguar does not support this. You could create your own routines to handle them or delve deep into the dark arts of the CRY colour system, but it will likely not be suitable or even closely resemble what you are thinking of.

Oh heavens no lol, any anti-alias attempts would be in very isolated rendering environments like a single cube maybe, was thinking about the 8-bit alpha channel in 24-bit color TGAs. Well alpha masking exists in Jaguar games but it sounds like there isn't any standard approach but nicking 1 color off any palette index should work.

 

I'm crazy and foolish but not so much I'm thinking about multi-pass texturing on the Jaguar.

 

Probably best not to make any assumptions but rather learn through experimentation. If 3D on Jaguar is your goal, maybe it would be worthwhile experimenting with the freely available versions of Atari's renderer? Gorf and Co. did the same back when things were less easy to get into than they are these days - if you're at the point where you are discussing these things you should have little trouble yourself. But if you do come unstuck, just ask here - you'll find the highly knowledgeable users all too willing to help with actual specifics rather than something less tangible such as your list here.

I don't know how far I can get to that point of actually poking the hardware, still trying to get one first lol. I'll make note of Gorf and Co. for later, at the very least I understand better that there aren't many simple answers for the Jaguar performance because of the customization aspects of coding for it. That makes it hard to describe in lay terms.

 

I'm plenty serious about the platform but I'm still working with a head full of bad wiring so don't get your hopes up.

 

The Jaguar's video setup is highly configurable, but it's dark arts stuff. Read the techref or something like my rB+ beginners guide to how the Jaguar produces its display and that should answer many of your questions. Also look to the kinds of games that released and the resolutions they ran in. (e.g. Doom, with its highly limited engine, didn't have 4x pixels with a 15fps frame cap and no sound just for fun...).

That is what I was afraid of, that gives me both hope and trepidation for picking resolutions. I've been busy but as soon as I knock off a couple chores I'll delve into rB+ more thoroughly, appreciate the directions to answers, don't know where I'm going half the time.

 

Heh, yeah I've spoken on Jag Doom before, appreciate the performance of it but it shows what can happen without a dedicated sound chip, give people a general CPU and they can use it to make games without music.

 

You should really learn more about the Object Processor before heading off down the rabbit hole with such questions, as the answers you think you seek would mostly become apparent without any input from others required.

Okay I will keep that in mind. This is a lot more varied than I imagined, a lot more about real experience than standard protocols to follow which you get with more dedicated hardware setups.

 

As above, Jaguar display is highly configurable. It might be simpler and more useful simply to have your artist produce regular assets in a chunky style, as I did with the Rocketeer "demake".

Of course, when you have such limited RAM/ROM resources making use of this can be essential. If you'd read up on the way the Jaguar creates the display you'd already already have a better idea regarding this.

There are no screen modes in the sense you use that term here. 1 bit per pixel - on or off - black or white - green or aubergine - there or not-fookin-there.

Heh my artist, I am the artist, well that is my stronger skill set. In your basic outline description it sounds like the Jaguar would have no trouble with odd resolutions so I figure true double wide sprites should work rather than wasting space drawing them literally double wide in the bitmaps.

 

Sounds like the Jaguar could emulate the Lynx visually quite well, get the window to fill the screen as much as possible. I like the Super Game Boy and Game Boy Player but the window is fairly cropped and not very versatile in display size options.

 

3D engines don't have preferences, they are pieces of code written by people who are aiming to achieve specific results and the assets they make use of will have been designed to help achieve the required results. I'd imagine that if you get to the point where you need to answer this question, it would never be a question you'd need to ask...

Poor choice of word I guess, yes it doesn't have a preference but there is a national average most games used for the most part, like PS1 textures were always about a 1/4 smaller than PCs did around the same time. You're right though, this is something better answered in implementing code because it varies.

 

Now, if you are serious about learning to work with the Jaguar, you maybe should work with one of the existing setups out there as it'll give you a feel for what is possible and how the constraints effect your process. The one I'm familiar with - raptor BASIC+, isn't actually a BASIC at all, it's all C - it's uses a BASIC-to-C pre-process that can be completely bypassed. If you're up to the task of programming Jaguar but don't fancy what you might perceive as the limitations of BASIC, why not experiment with rB+? I'd imagine within a week or two you'd have a much clearer understanding of what the Jaguar is and is not and if it might be something you'd be willing to invest months of your time in to be in a position to create Jaguar games of the nature that interests you.

 

p.s. I was up early this morning and have already consumed 4 cups of pretty strong TEA, so I was at a loose end... not serious amount of precious existence was expended in the creation of this post.

Whatever I do I think I'd start with 2D first, 3D atm is little more than I should chew on right now even though it interests me. I don't have an aptitude for programming so that is going to be uphill all the way for me. I really want to try hard to make something with as much of my own steam as I can because actual team efforts are far and few between but I have a real defeatist stance on my technical ability that I'll have to get over. Nobody hold their breath please.

 

Believe me I get the rub of big idea little work thread dropping but like a fan club any interest is good interest.

 

Almost forgot, what is that carrot icon about that you use?

Edited April 30, 2016 by BladeJunker

[BladeJunker]

 

I couldn't find the 1024 wide reference but I did find a mention about 1280x576 interlaced - "A 1280x576x16M image needs 2.88MB of DRAM and the Jaguar only has 2MB! 16-bit color fits in memory and bandwidth, with "only" 1.44MB needed per 1280x576 still image. - KS" My searching ability probably sucks though.

That is the tough part, the hardware can display such an image but there isn't enough memory to do so. I've been mostly shooting for the half way mark of 480X360 as a goal for crisp image rendering. I mostly base this on how Midway arcade games like Narc and Mortal Kombat had moderately more screen resolution than home platforms but even small jumps over 240p still look better even on SD-TVs.

 

Storage is hard too, on carts a few choice splash screen at higher res sound reasonable but you get into something like Myst and you need that CD streamed storage format to have that much content at that level of fidelity.