5200 Pole Position label date code - NR?

[Ballblaɀer]

Since we're currently playing Pole Position in the 5200 High Score Club, I'm hoping more than a few of you have your game cartridges handy. Can you take a look to see what date code is stamped on the label? I have two: one says 39 3 R, and one says 39 3NR. So, both were probably manufactured in the 39th week of 1983...

 

 

The "R" probably stands for "revision" -- it appears frequently on 2600 game labels. I don't think I've ever seen an "N" stamped like this in the date code before, though. Anybody want to take a guess as to what that might mean?

[0078265317]

Mine says 413R.

[Christophero Sly]

The "R" probably stands for "revision" -- it appears frequently on 2600 game labels.

*slaps forehead*

 

I've always wondered what 'R' might stand for in these date codes. Why did I never land on 'Revision'?

Edited April 30, 2016 by Christophero Sly

[Ballblaɀer]

*slaps forehead*

 

I've always wondered what 'R' might stand for in these date codes. Why did I never land on 'Revision'?

 

Hey, glad to see you turn up here! I've read through a number of old threads where you'd done a good bit of research with the 2600 date codes. Very informative, and much appreciated.

 

I should say that I'm not 100% sure on the R = revision thing. It certainly makes the most sense to me, though it does leave the mystery of this "N" stamp, as well as the "D" stamp on some 2600 cartridges that I've seen. I've just started on a database of 5200 date codes, in case there are any patterns that would help figure it out.

 

Anyway, alternative theories and/or definitive proof one way or the other would be most welcome!

[Christophero Sly]

I just went back and revisited those old date stamp threads. I appears that 'revision' had been mentioned at that time. I don't know why it never sunk in with me.

 

Anyway, if you look at the way the date codes themselves (at least on 2600 carts) are formatted, the non-R codes are composed of three evenly-spaced digits--"3 2 1". In codes that include the R, the formatting is "33 1 R"--there isn't a space between the first two digits (the week code). Thus, it may be the case that 'revision' is simply referring to the revised formatting of the date code stamp itself.

 

I've only ever seen or heard of "D" on one cartridge--my own copy of Sears picture label Demons to Diamonds. Other that it being a simple mistake, I can't even begin to speculate on what it might indicate.

 

No idea on "NR" either. I've never seen it on a 2600 cartridge. I seem to recall seeing it on one of my 5200 cartridges, but I can no longer be sure as I have since parted with my 5200 collection.

[Ballblaɀer]

I just went back and revisited those old date stamp threads. I appears that 'revision' had been mentioned at that time. I don't know why it never sunk in with me.

 

Anyway, if you look at the way the date codes themselves (at least on 2600 carts) are formatted, the non-R codes are composed of three evenly-spaced digits--"3 2 1". In codes that include the R, the formatting is "33 1 R"--there isn't a space between the first two digits (the week code). Thus, it may be the case that 'revision' is simply referring to the revised formatting of the date code stamp itself.

 

I've only ever seen or heard of "D" on one cartridge--my own copy of Sears picture label Demons to Diamonds. Other that it being a simple mistake, I can't even begin to speculate on what it might indicate.

 

No idea on "NR" either. I've never seen it on a 2600 cartridge. I seem to recall seeing it on one of my 5200 cartridges, but I can no longer be sure as I have since parted with my 5200 collection.

 

The same pattern holds true for 5200 cartridges; the non-R codes have the three digits evenly spaced, while the ones with R have the week code digits together. I didn't indicate that as such in the list of 5200 codes I started compiling, but that was just to keep things looking uniform. As to whether the R just refers to the new stamp format -- I hadn't considered that, but it's certainly possible.

 

The R-codes appear on later dates for every title where I've seen both types of codes. The only discrepancy I found so far was for Dig Dug, and it's possible that I either overlooked the R on the late-date one, or it was stamped too lightly for me to see (I used a number of eBay auction photos in making my list, but only use those where I was 95%+ sure of what I was reading).

 

I do wonder if anyone has dumped ROMs from both code types, for 2600 and/or 5200, to see if there's any difference. If there isn't, I'd certainly back off of the "R = revision" idea.

 

To add to the mystery, I've got a copy of Star Raiders coming my way with a "PR" code! Never seen that anywhere else, either.

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Ballblaɀer

[Christophero Sly]

I doubt "R" refers to revisions in the actual game code, though several 2600 game ROMs are known to have been revised. Revisions to the label, instructions, packaging, etc. is, I think, more likely. Almost all the instruction manuals for Atari-published games on the 2600 were revised. There's a revision number on the back cover of almost every one of them. Maybe the date-stamp codes on the labels and the manual revision numbers refer to the same thing.

 

I can't even begin to speculate what "PR" might indicate, but it's existence would suggest that "NR" isn't any kind of mistake. Nice find.

[RangerG]

MIne also says 41 3 R

[Ballblaɀer]

I doubt "R" refers to revisions in the actual game code, though several 2600 game ROMs are known to have been revised. Revisions to the label, instructions, packaging, etc. is, I think, more likely. Almost all the instruction manuals for Atari-published games on the 2600 were revised. There's a revision number on the back cover of almost every one of them. Maybe the date-stamp codes on the labels and the manual revision numbers refer to the same thing.

 

I can't even begin to speculate what "PR" might indicate, but it's existence would suggest that "NR" isn't any kind of mistake. Nice find.

 

Good point. I don't typically collect boxes so I'm not in a position to match up the carts with the rest of the packaging, but I agree that something like that is more likely than a ROM revision. Could also be a PCB revision, I suppose?

 

In my collecting, I've seen one other Pole Position cart with NR on it (printed in the same fashion, with the N looking like it was crammed between the year number and the R). The Star Raiders "PR" is new to me.

 

I'm seeking more data on the later-style 5200 cartridges, i.e. those not using the white-title-on-blue-bar design (Berzerk, Dig Dug, Jungle Hunt, Mario Bros., Moon Patrol, Ms. Pac-Man, Pengo, Robotron: 2084, Space Dungeon). The placement of the stamp with the different design often makes the date codes more difficult to read, at least when you don't have the cartridge in your hands to examine in person.

[Christophero Sly]

I'm seeking more data on the later-style 5200 cartridges, i.e. those not using the white-title-on-blue-bar design (Berzerk, Dig Dug, Jungle Hunt, Mario Bros., Moon Patrol, Ms. Pac-Man, Pengo, Robotron: 2084, Space Dungeon). The placement of the stamp with the different design often makes the date codes more difficult to read, at least when you don't have the cartridge in your hands to examine in person.

Keep us posted.

[rayik]

R = reprint / reissue / rerelease ?

[HawkMines]

I have a slightly different kind of Pole Position date code, with a space between the N and the 3. The date code is 39 3 NR still though.

[Ballblaɀer]

I got curious and opened up my two Star Raiders carts to compare. If someone wants to open up a non-"R" version of Star Raiders to compare, please share!

 

On the left, the PCB from the cart with its label stamped "25 3 R". On the right, the PCB from the cart with its label stamped "29 3 PR":

The PCBs themselves appear to be the same. The top lines of numbers in the ink stamps ("05 25 3" and "05 29 3") match with the dates stamped on the cartridge label. The bottom lines of numbers ("12 08" and "29 29") match up with numbers stamped on the ROMs:

(image rotated, so 29 3 PR PCB is on the left in this photo)

 

The "29 3 PR" cart uses ROMs from NCR Microelectronics. The one stamped 2332-30 is a 32K (?) ROM chip, according to an NCR catalog from 1985. The one stamped 2364-30 is a 64K (?!) ROM chip according to the same catalog. The "25 3 R" cart uses what I think are two regular 8K ROM chips, but I'm not positive. Star Raiders is a 16K game... so... was it common for Atari to use ROMs with more memory than was needed, or is this out of the ordinary?

 

There are VERY slight, almost entirely unnoticeable differences in the cartridge shell revisions and the metal shielding used (images go back to "R" on the left, "PR" on the right):

Here's the reverse of the PCBs; again, the boards themselves appear to be identical:

Apart from the unusually-sized ROMs in the PR-stamped cart, there's really not a whole lot to go on. The cartridge shells are just barely different enough to be of interest, but the ROMs used in the "PR" cart at least raise an eyebrow. When I have a chance to take my Pole Position "R" and "NR" carts apart and take some photos, I'll post again.

[Ti99erman81]

 

 

Maybe NR=Natural/Normal release/ Revision.

 

And PR= Promotional release/ Revision.

 

Atari Did have a star raiders sit down attraction At I believe C.E.S. or

Atari HQ I THINK? Don't quote me on that,

 

but there is news footage of The star raiders sit down online.

 

The sit down attraction used  two atari 800's Custom mounted inside a spaceship cockpit that 2 people would sit inside and control each of there own ships on two separate screens. But maybe there could have been one that used Atari 5200's?

 

or the PR ones are just promo give away versions,  like if you buy a 5200 you get a PR version of said game. Or could have been part of the McDonald's promo that Atari had, a 5200 and star raiders was one of the prizes that could be won.

 

IDK just speculation. 

 

 

 

 

Here is the link to the news footage 

 

 

the star raiders set down attraction is around the 8:00 minute mark. 

 

Edited March 17 by Ti99erman81

[+x=usr(1536)]

One more wild guess:

 

NR = NTSC Region

PR = PAL Region

 

Given that prior to the PAL system's cancellation there were games being converted for PAL use, it kinda makes sense.  No reason to change existing art and layouts already applied to boxes and labels, so the NR / PR markings were just left in.  Nothing would prevent inserting NTSC ROMs in a PAL cartridge, so it's reasonable to speculate that rather than just tossing a run of PAL PCBs, they were remanufactured as NTSC and sold on the North American market.

 

One other totally unbacked guess:

 

PR = Preproduction release

NR = Normal Release (i.e., full production)

 

But that's also pure speculation.

[Kr0tki]

On 5/16/2016 at 1:15 AM, Ballblaɀer said:

The "29 3 PR" cart uses ROMs from NCR Microelectronics. The one stamped 2332-30 is a 32K (?) ROM chip, according to an NCR catalog from 1985. The one stamped 2364-30 is a 64K (?!) ROM chip according to the same catalog. The "25 3 R" cart uses what I think are two regular 8K ROM chips, but I'm not positive. Star Raiders is a 16K game... so... was it common for Atari to use ROMs with more memory than was needed, or is this out of the ordinary?

"Star Raiders" is a 12 KB game. This matches with the chip sizes that you've found - the cartridge contains one 64 Kbit = 8 KB and one 32 Kbit = 4 KB chip, which sums up to 12 KB.

 

What bugs me, these two cartridges contain chips with differing internal part numbers. That most certainly means that the contents of the ROMs also differ.

 

I've cross-referenced the numbers with Atari's "Engineering Information System - Item Master List". Here are all the pages with part numbers for 5200 ROMs:

The ROMs from the "25 3 R" cartridge are described there as "CX5205 CARTRIDGE" while the "29 3 PR" ones are described as "CX5205P CARTRIDGE". Considering that, in the context of this list, the "P" in description of 2600 cartridges means PAL variants, this would mean that the "29 3 PR" cartridge indeed contains an updated version of "Star Raiders", modified to support the planned PAL 5200 console. There exists a PAL prototype of Star Raiders, so maybe they simply replaced the original release with the PAL-compatible version at some point in time?

 

Look, there are several other ROMs listed as "CX52xxP CARTRIDGE". There may be more game revisions in the wild that we don't yet know of. I guess we need a coordinated effort to search for and dump the 5200 cartridges like we started in the 8-bit section a few years ago.

Edited March 18 by Kr0tki

[0078265317]

So is there actually any difference in these revisions?  Or it's the same game?