Rick Dangerous Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I got into the Jaguar because I happened to find two in the wild within six months for a "reasonable" price. That's why I got into jaguar a few years back: pure coincidence. That and the fact that i'd always been aware they existed, wanted one, but had never seen one in the wild. In some ways it was a bad time (prices had gone up already) and in other ways it seems like the best of times to be into the Jaguar ever, with new great games being ported or released at a steady rate the past few years, and only better and more exciting releases on the horizon. I know some people think the AVGN is the reason, but it has to be more than than. There is a general interest in retro systems of the era, but we don't see any home-brew releases or crazy prices on the same scale for TG 16, Sega CD or 32x, or the 3DO. Sure it was Atari's last console, but so was the TG 16, the Dreamcast, the 3DO, so I'm not sure if thats the reason either. It's not necessarily known to be easy to program for or harness the power of. What makes the Jaguar so special, and why now? What's your theory? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Where are you looking that you aren't seeing crazy prices on the TG16, 32x, or Dreamcast? They've all blown up huge over the past few years. Honestly I have never seen Jaguar consoles - or games - in the wild all that often, and when I have they haven't exactly been cheap. So as far as I can tell the general pricing hasn't changed a whole lot, but if it has gone up it probably does have something to do with the general increase in prices for games of that vintage. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Has Jaguar emulation peaked yet? If it still provides less than decent performance, perhaps people still want to experience the real deal to see what all the hullabaloo is about. Maybe they try emulation and think "these games can't be this bad, gotta be the less than perfect emulation". Little do they know... Could also be that it's Atari's last console playing a factor here too. Gotta be part of it. Glad I got back into the Jag (second time around) several years ago as I surely would not be purchasing the big dollar titles for what they sell for today. In fact, wrestle with letting my collection go a lot these days.. Sitting on a small fortune here! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Yeah, everything is blowing up right now. 32X I don't think quite as much as Jag has. TG-16 is definitely getting there. I still think a lot of the Jag popularity is due to YouTube videos and people just want to experience it for themselves, but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Because Coleco Chameleon. It thrust the Jag into the forefront of videogaming consciousness with those godforsaken molds. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidGameR186496 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I would love to have a Jaguar once more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo64 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) Because it's an oasis of untapped retro gaming bliss. It just takes a team of dedicated programmers and a mountain of cash, testing and improving code and other variables and showing off what clean-non 68k code on the Atari Jaguar can do. Flipside, in a totally different universe, if Nintendo had released the Jaguar as their own system, it would still have had amazing games and probably no need for addon chips in the cartridges. The fault in the Jaguar isn't the hardware (even though the hardware itself had bugs within the chips!) it's the software. Even Atari developers had found a way around the memory bug in the Jaguar before it's demise. Even the Genesis hardware had a bug or two in it. It (the hardware bugs present in Genesis Model 1 & 2) was corrected with the Genesis 3 and that's why some normal Genesis games aren't compatible with it. And, of course, 32X and Sega CD won't work with Majesco's Genesis Model 3, either. The Jaguar was a powerhouse of technology in 1993 when it was released. PlayStation did have better hardware but, still, clever coding could have been used by dedicated and well-paid programmers back in the mid 1990's and the Jaguar would have great ports. The main thing, to me, is that the Jaguar was so powerful for it's day that the neccessary software and PC hardware wasn't quite there yet and most programmers knew 68k code instead of the Jaguar's custom chips and, as a result, the 3D performance was poor because 70% of the game was written in 68k. The Jaguar, if released as a CD system, with 3RD party support and a first and second party team of hardcore, dedicated programmers that knew the Jaguar's internals inside and out would have catapulted the Jaguar as "the console that saved Atari". Who knows, in an alternate universe, the console war is between Nintendo, Sega and Atari. That "PlayStation" died in October 1992 after lackluster sales. The End for Sony. Edited May 10, 2016 by NeoGeo64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 The Jaguar is not popular. It's just scarce compared to other platforms which is why the rise in prices might make one think it's due to popularity. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) After reading the topic title, i entered expecting sh3-rg to post a GIF of Mugatu from Zoolander saying: "That Atari Jaguar is so hot right now". What happened sh3-rg?. Edited May 10, 2016 by sd32 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredifredo Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Because it's the last of the Macleods 68k / atari system ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 The Jaguar wasn't common enough that it would be like the Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, or whatever in the sense that millions would be stored away in garages and attics for decades to later return to the wild to gain some more popularity. It is closer to something more like all the Jaguars that currently exist represents its popularity because most are either in the hands of people interested in it or are being sold by ones who were once interested to others who are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 After reading the topic title, i entered expecting sh3-rg to post a GIF of Mugatu from Zoolander saying: "That Atari Jaguar is so hot right now". What happened sh3-rg?. Maybe I would have posted something similar, but that post two above yours had me in the emergency room all night. Thankfully I pulled through and regular gif posting will resume towards the end of the week. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LianneJaguar64 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 From my perspective, it's because it's different. Most machines of the era have a lot of similar games, but only a few Jaguar games can be found on other systems... Plus I love the grungy '90's style sci-fi from games like I war or Skyhammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto1980 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 From my perspective, it's because it's different. Most machines of the era have a lot of similar games, but only a few Jaguar games can be found on other systems... Plus I love the grungy '90's style sci-fi from games like I war or Skyhammer me too, and BIWN would be my holy grail but it died before release :_( :_( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LianneJaguar64 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I would love to see that get the 'Phoenix Down' treatment and be revived and released... The hardest part for me is seeing all the 'unreleased games' videos and seeing loads of truly amazing looking titles that never were... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) Can't help but feel the Skunkboards released over the years has had a huge influence on this. The fact that you can play almost the entire Jags library for the (once) low price/admission of a Jaguar and a Skunkboard is really incredible. It's now in the same domain as all the other Atari platforms where you can easily flash it up with every game imaginable. That and there's no replacement for Tempest 2000. Edited May 10, 2016 by Clint Thompson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 From my perspective, it's because it's different. Most machines of the era have a lot of similar games, but only a few Jaguar games can be found on other systems... Ha, used to think so too, but when you start adding up the reality of what's available elsewhere, you'd be surprised to find there's a lot more than just a few! Baldies - PC Braindead 13 - PC, Saturn, PSX, CDi, 3DO Brutal Sports Football - Amiga, CD32, PC Bubsy - Genesis, SNES, PC (okay, not the same exact game, but still) Cannon Fodder - Amiga, CD32, PC, Genesis, SNES Doom - SNES, 32X, 3DO, PC, Mac, etc. Dragon's Lair - every system Evolution: Dino Dudes - The Humans on SNES, Genesis, PC, etc. Fever Pitch Soccer - SNES, Genesis Flashback - SNES, Genesis, PC, Mac, CDi, 3DO I-War - PC International Sensible Soccer - PC, Amiga, Genesis, SNES Missile Command 3D - PSX, PC (again, maybe not the same exact game, but close) Myst - nearly every system NBA Jam - nearly every system Pinball Fantasies - Amiga, CD32, SNES, PC Pitfall: Mayan Adventure - SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, PC, Power Drive Rally - SNES, Genesis, Amiga Primal Rage - PSX, Saturn, PC, 3DO, Amiga, SNES, Genesis, 32X Raiden - various incarnations for PC Engine, SNES, Genesis, PC Rayman - PSX, Saturn, PC Soccer Kid - Amiga, PC, 3DO Space Ace - nearly every system Syndicate - SNES, Genesis, PC, 3DO, Amiga, etc. Tempest 2000 - PC, PSX, Saturn (okay, some variations here) Theme Park - nearly every system Total Carnage - SNES, Amiga, PC Towers II - PC Troy Aikman Football - SNES, Genesis Val d'Isere Skiing - Tommy Moe's Winter Extreme for SNES Wolfenstein 3D - PC, 3DO, SNES, Genesis, etc. Worms - PC, Amiga, SNES, Genesis, etc. Zool 2 - PC, Amiga, CD32, Genesis, SNES Zoop - nearly every system of the time ...some variances here and there; graphically, level design, etc., but you get the idea. Turns out about half the library is not exclusive to the Jaguar! 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LianneJaguar64 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) Yeah alright but how many came after the Jaguar was discontinued so the devs could make some money on their games, and how many released at the same time? Edited May 10, 2016 by LianneJaguar64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Yeah alright but how many came after the Jaguar was discontinued so the devs could make some money on their games, and how many released at the same time? Now you're talkin' just a few! Other way around though as many/most of the games listed above were released a year or two before the Jaguar version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 Beat Sh3-rg to it! 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 The Jaguar, if released as a CD system, with 3RD party support and a first and second party team of hardcore, dedicated programmers that knew the Jaguar's internals inside and out would have catapulted the Jaguar as "the console that saved Atari". Who knows, in an alternate universe, the console war is between Nintendo, Sega and Atari. That "PlayStation" died in October 1992 after lackluster sales. The End for Sony. We got another live one here, people. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Because it's an oasis of untapped retro gaming bliss. It just takes a team of dedicated programmers and a mountain of cash, testing and improving code and other variables and showing off what clean-non 68k code on the Atari Jaguar can do. Flipside, in a totally different universe, if Nintendo had released the Jaguar as their own system, it would still have had amazing games and probably no need for addon chips in the cartridges. The fault in the Jaguar isn't the hardware (even though the hardware itself had bugs within the chips!) it's the software. Even Atari developers had found a way around the memory bug in the Jaguar before it's demise. Even the Genesis hardware had a bug or two in it. It (the hardware bugs present in Genesis Model 1 & 2) was corrected with the Genesis 3 and that's why some normal Genesis games aren't compatible with it. And, of course, 32X and Sega CD won't work with Majesco's Genesis Model 3, either. The Jaguar was a powerhouse of technology in 1993 when it was released. PlayStation did have better hardware but, still, clever coding could have been used by dedicated and well-paid programmers back in the mid 1990's and the Jaguar would have great ports. The main thing, to me, is that the Jaguar was so powerful for it's day that the neccessary software and PC hardware wasn't quite there yet and most programmers knew 68k code instead of the Jaguar's custom chips and, as a result, the 3D performance was poor because 70% of the game was written in 68k. The Jaguar, if released as a CD system, with 3RD party support and a first and second party team of hardcore, dedicated programmers that knew the Jaguar's internals inside and out would have catapulted the Jaguar as "the console that saved Atari". Who knows, in an alternate universe, the console war is between Nintendo, Sega and Atari. That "PlayStation" died in October 1992 after lackluster sales. The End for Sony. That is some "go back in time and shoot Hitler" level "what if?" history right there. The bottom line is, financial realities were never in Atari's favor, so even an ideal console with a properly executed launch, quality software, robust third party support, etc., would have been a long shot to succeed. It's the same reason why the Dreamcast never stood a chance despite selling relatively well (and obviously exponentially better than the Jaguar). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Because 10/10 would WTFLOL again. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
032-Bias Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I got into the Jaguar because I happened to find two in the wild within six months for a "reasonable" price. That's why I got into jaguar a few years back: pure coincidence. Same here. Found a jag, cd unit, and about 6 cartridges including AVP and a memory track at a local retro shop/record store a few years back for $150. I bought them after I got a controller for about $25 or so online and got to test the system; looks like someone tried to flush the jag cd down the toilet with the amount of corrosion on the daughterboard. Anyway, I think it has to do with the exposure it has gotten in recent years and its history. Atari, the best known company from the pioneering days of video games, made a last desperate gambit with a system that ultimately failed; sounds pretty interesting to me, but I'm one of those people that likes looking into gaming history. It probably also has something to do with the larger number of people getting into the retrogaming scene. Some stay and pay the high prices people ask, some wise up and realize that the insane prices on eBay are unreasonable, others get a bunch of stuff and then dump it all, and the smart ones get out while they can. I am sadly not one of the smart ones as "the orphanage" has another member (after all my complaining of high prices, I bought a Saturn), bringing the total up to 14 consoles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Except it didn't "ultimately fail," it was doomed to failure before it even released. I knew it, developers knew it, the gaming press knew it, and I'm sure even most at Atari knew it. To use a previous comparison, this was like Nazi Germany arming children and old men to turn back the Allied advance for total victory in the waning days of WWII. On the other hand, that's why I personally like it. The Jag was so absolutely futile that I can't help but admire it. And that's to say nothing of the Jag CD, which cranked the futility dial all the way to 11. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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