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Rick Dangerous

Why is the Jaguar so popular right now?

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Okay, this thread is again steering towards "why did the Jaguar fail commercially in 1993-5" whereas it's supposed to be about why its so popular right now!

 

My theories:

 

It's not because of:

 

1. Exclusive production titles: As Save2600 Mentioned, most everything on the Jag is available on other consoles.

 

2. Jaguar was Atari's "last system." I think most 8 bit fans often tend to stick with those 2600-7800, A8. I believe the Jaguar appeals more to 16-32bit era gamers.

 

3. Prices/Availability: Some people like to buy stuff just because it's rare and expensive. This may factor in for a few jaguar collectors but I don't believe it's driving the systems popularity right now.

 

It may be:

 

1. Commercial design and mystique of the Jaguar, its a cool looking system, it's Atari, and its rare. Also from the fun 16-32 bit early 90's era.

 

2. Online (retro gaming articles) and YouTube exposure. Not just AVGN at all; there are approximately 75k Atari Jaguar videos on YouTube.

 

3. I hate to say it but the RVGS/Chameleon debacle brought the Jaguar back into the spotlight in many ways.

 

4. AA- All of us, excellent Jaguar community and thriving discussion, enthusiastic fan base.

 

5. Excellent (above average) home-brew and porting scene. SO many good games out recently and coming out for the jaguar (why I wonder over other systems, this is a big part of the success, see below for my theory)

 

6. Passionate programmer community: It seems like, though the Jaguar is not known for being "easy" to program for, that various tools have created and made available it has become a developers system. We are lucky to have a few handfuls of people (don't need to name names, we all know who they are) who keep working on great projects for the Jaguar year in and year out. And not just willing to program games, but spec components, solder carts, order shells, print materials, etc. etc. to actually produce high quality home-brew titles for purchase.

 

There are certainly systems as expensive to collect for as the Jaguar, but as far as overall hype and media coverage (in the retro gaming world-granted small,) and home-brew releases, I believe the system is flying high right now. And believe me, I own and collect for many other systems and would love to see the same level of excitement and new releases for some of these other systems. This is not in any way a "jaguar is better" thread. Luckily there has been a trickle of good releases for other systems and hopefully this will continue and grow across the board as many of us realize that simple, fun, 80's and 90's era type games are what we would rather be playing over "modern" games (download, bugs, pay to play, etc. etc.)

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Or simply because of the non mainstream systems of that time it is/was the most interesting/cheap.

Let's be honest for collecting purposes PS1, Saturn, N64 can be had cheap, same for SNES, MD, 32X, MegaCD, and "in between" you have Jag, CDi, 3DO, Commodore CDTV, Amiga CD32, FM Towns Marty, PC-FX, NeoGeo CD, Pioneer LaserActive.

 

Once you get the NGCD out of your system what's the next logical pick?

As a game machine the Jag logically fits there (before or after a 3DO if you are so inclined).

CDi, CDTV, CD32 are waaaaaaay too niche imho.

FM Towns Marty, PC-FX are for the Jap fans.

Pioneer LaserActive is FMV galore at a hefty price (I'd like to have one but I can't afford it)

 

So you see logically it's a toss between NeoGeo AES/MVS, NeoGeo CD, 3DO and Jag, so it's not so out there to me as to why there's demand for the Jag.

 

I am discounting all systems older than MD (so all 8 bits and the PCE) and more recent than N64 in this reply.

New millennium consoles are plenty and cheap and I mean DC (bear with me here), PS2, GC, XB, PS3, XB360, Wii.

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The Jag was so absolutely futile that I can't help but admire it. And that's to say nothing of the Jag CD, which cranked the futility dial all the way to 11.

 

I agree 100%. I think the "underdog factor" is subconsciously a consideration for many gamers who have a soft spot for an outcast like the Jaguar. There is a lot to appreciate in this (quite powerful for 93) machine that never had a chance to be commercially successful for a myriad of reasons. Now with all these great games coming out, I feel like we all want to hoist the system on our shoulders and start chanting "RUDY.....RUDY......RUDY" (reference to sports movie where little guy gets to play and scores final touchdown of season)

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We got another live one here, people.

Please. It wouldn't have been out of the question. Alternate history is fascinating to some people, you know. I agree with them, sort of... Is it as powerful as PSX? No, not really... But in the right hands it could have done better, that's for sure

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Bubsy - Genesis, SNES, PC (okay, not the same exact game, but still)

I-War - PC

Missile Command 3D - PSX, PC (again, maybe not the same exact game, but close)

Power Drive Rally - SNES, Genesis, Amiga

Tempest 2000 - PC, PSX, Saturn (okay, some variations here)

Towers II - PC

 

they are in that form not even close or NOT on other systems

 

"maybe not the same exact game, but close" -> so we need no new racing games for example.. they are not the same but close :grin:

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I have to agree with the general idea that the reason why the Jaguar is "popular" in terms of collecting (and we're really talking about going rates for things) has a lot to do with relative scarcity of many items. Of course, other platforms are also "scarce" without having similar values, but certainly this being an Atari product, and the last Atari product at that, certainly helps this moreso than it otherwise might.

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I am sadly not one of the smart ones as "the orphanage" has another member (after all my complaining of high prices, I bought a Saturn), bringing the total up to 14 consoles.

 

It was funny because out of my fellow gaming friends they all ooo ed and ahh ed at the Jaguar when I pulled out the box from storage.It was nice to play the 7 games I have for it but I probably wont collect for it. Is there any truth though to only 150,000 units made? Thats what Wikipedia says anyhow but I don't see that in today's market. There are a few more high priced titles I would love to have for it but I will wait patiently for a good deal.

 

And thanks for bringing up the Saturn. There are moments I look and ask myself and need to rationalize 1 game for $200 or a bunch of games for other systems and maybe even another system as well for that same cash. Stupid Saturn.

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It was funny because out of my fellow gaming friends they all ooo ed and ahh ed at the Jaguar when I pulled out the box from storage.It was nice to play the 7 games I have for it but I probably wont collect for it. Is there any truth though to only 150,000 units made? Thats what Wikipedia says anyhow but I don't see that in today's market. There are a few more high priced titles I would love to have for it but I will wait patiently for a good deal.

 

And thanks for bringing up the Saturn. There are moments I look and ask myself and need to rationalize 1 game for $200 or a bunch of games for other systems and maybe even another system as well for that same cash. Stupid Saturn.

 

For the Saturn, I just do the CD-R thing on the overpriced collector-style games. It's much more budget friendly.

 

As for the Jaguar, they sold a little over 125,000 console units from launch right up until the February 1996 reverse merger. After that, the remaining 100,000 units in inventory were liquidated, so you probably ended up with a little over 200,000 units in the wild when all was said and done (pre- + post-liquidation). Apparently, the Jaguar's best sales year was 1994, when it sold a little over 80,000 units (which is considered a bad sales MONTH for a modern console these days, let alone a whole year). They never came anywhere close to that number again.

 

I'm fortunate to have gotten a good portion of my Jaguar collection from the liquidation period (through Tiger Direct), otherwise I might not have been able to grow this particular part of my collection like I have. Timing is important.

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It's not because of:

 

1. Exclusive production titles: As Save2600 Mentioned, most everything on the Jag is available on other consoles.

 

Personally the exclusive titles are one of the reasons I like the Jaguar. Just because a good number of games on a platform may be available on others doesn't mean you can't still appreciate the exclusives it does have like: Alien VS Predator, Zero 5, Defender 2000, Battlemorph, Super Burnout, Missile Command 3D, and Iron Soldier. Tempest 2000 is also arguably best on the Jaguar. Would probably recommend a couple other retro platforms before the Jaguar, but if your collection can accommodate it, I'd say it's worth checking out.

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It was funny because out of my fellow gaming friends they all ooo ed and ahh ed at the Jaguar when I pulled out the box from storage.It was nice to play the 7 games I have for it but I probably wont collect for it. Is there any truth though to only 150,000 units made? Thats what Wikipedia says anyhow but I don't see that in today's market. There are a few more high priced titles I would love to have for it but I will wait patiently for a good deal.

 

And thanks for bringing up the Saturn. There are moments I look and ask myself and need to rationalize 1 game for $200 or a bunch of games for other systems and maybe even another system as well for that same cash. Stupid Saturn.

 

Yeah, I kind of weird my friends out with the strange systems that I developed a liking for after finding them for relatively good prices; the Jag and CD unit, 3DO, and now Saturn are all in that camp (so is the Dreamcast, but people actually like it). And prices for a lot of systems are keeping me from getting their games, so I've been looking into CD-R burning as Bill suggested above (make sure to get a mod-chip for a Saturn if you go this route, or get an action replay and flash it with Pseudo Saturn).

 

I mean I would love to have Lucienne's Quest for the 3DO or Panzer Dragoon Saga, Burning Rangers, Enemy Zero, etc. for the Saturn, but the prices are way out of my range. Also considering getting everdrives for cartridge systems and really curious if the Jag SD card reader cart is going to get off the ground.

 

Travis, I have a soft spot for the underdog or under appreciated consoles too. The gaming collection sometimes feels like a rest home for washed-up athletes of gaming yesteryear.

 

Phoenix brought up a good point about the Jag being a next logical step after collecting for the more mainstream and well know consoles. This could be a big reason people who are jumping into the hobby more recently or are getting back into it would go after the Jaguar.

Edited by 032-Bias
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I'd hope people are not being taken in by some of the claims these unreleased Jaguar games YT vids seem to be making, as since they went up, a lot of hard work has gone into finding the reality behind press claims made at the time and thus we know images supplied by likes of Core Design were mock-up's and for no specific formats, let alone Jaguar.

And i'm (not) sorry to say that putting up static screens from other formats, is no inddication of how a planned Jaguar release might have looked and as for editing 3Do/PC/Saturn/PS1 footage to imply it's Jaguar CD stuff, that's just plain daft.
The Jaguar had plenty of real lost games of it's own to be proud of (BIWN, Dactyl Joust, Conan, Legions Of The Undead etc) with out having to resort to smoke and mirror type tactics.

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Personally the exclusive titles are one of the reasons I like the Jaguar. Just because a good number of games on a platform may be available on others doesn't mean you can't still appreciate the exclusives it does have like: Alien VS Predator, Zero 5, Defender 2000, Battlemorph, Super Burnout, Missile Command 3D, and Iron Soldier. Tempest 2000 is also arguably best on the Jaguar. Would probably recommend a couple other retro platforms before the Jaguar, but if your collection can accommodate it, I'd say it's worth checking out.

I jumped straight in with Jaguar when I was 16, and three years on I have the Jaguar CD and a growing number of games. Whilst I see your point, it can be your first system quite easily, you just have to know what you're getting into beforehand (and avoid the AVGN video; I love the show but the big cat was really misrepresented in his mini series)

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I've not owned a console so maligned by so many, who swear blind they know all it has to offer, since i had a Mega CD and even that never had the opposite end of the spectrum, the very optimistic brigade, who firmly believe we only saw a mere fraction of the Jaguar's true power and it was capable of handling respectable versions of Quake, Daytona USA, Tomb Raider, NFS etc etc and will happily list various game engines that could of been used, interview quotes no-one can find and say if only Atari had got more units in for UK Launch..ST was still popular etc etc.

Maybe it's simply because the Jaguar generates such strong, mixed views to this day, people (other than collectors) are looking to see just why such a (commercial) failure, generates such strong views?.

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I jumped straight in with Jaguar when I was 16, and three years on I have the Jaguar CD and a growing number of games. Whilst I see your point, it can be your first system quite easily, you just have to know what you're getting into beforehand (and avoid the AVGN video; I love the show but the big cat was really misrepresented in his mini series)

 

While I appreciate your perspective as always, I don't think it's a good FIRST system to collect for. The relative prices are just too high for what the system offers in terms of library size and comparative game quality. To me, the Atari Jaguar is the type of system that's much farther down the list, best suited to mega Atari fans (who already got the other obvious targets out of the way), people who want to have every system (like myself), or those targeting a specific category of console for one reason or another.

 

Frankly, if you're going to start collecting for the first time and want to do it with a console, you're far better off with something like the NES, SNES, or Genesis, each of which still has games that can found just about anywhere, and have crazy deep libraries (and even plenty of clone hardware and controllers, as well as multi/flash carts).

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Yeah, I kind of weird my friends out with the strange systems that I developed a liking for after finding them for relatively good prices; the Jag and CD unit, 3DO, and now Saturn are all in that camp (so is the Dreamcast, but people actually like it). And prices for a lot of systems are keeping me from getting their games, so I've been looking into CD-R burning as Bill suggested above (make sure to get a mod-chip for a Saturn if you go this route, or get an action replay and flash it with Pseudo Saturn).

 

I mean I would love to have Lucienne's Quest for the 3DO or Panzer Dragoon Saga, Burning Rangers, Enemy Zero, etc. for the Saturn, but the prices are way out of my range. Also considering getting everdrives for cartridge systems and really curious if the Jag SD card reader cart is going to get off the ground.

 

Travis, I have a soft spot for the underdog or under appreciated consoles too. The gaming collection sometimes feels like a rest home for washed-up athletes of gaming yesteryear.

 

Phoenix brought up a good point about the Jag being a next logical step after collecting for the more mainstream and well know consoles. This could be a big reason people who are jumping into the hobby more recently or are getting back into it would go after the Jaguar.

Thankfully I did take that cd-r mod route with my Saturn. There were lots of Japan titles I wanted and initially thought yeah that should be cheap (HYPER DUEL not cheap).

 

So then is NES played out? Genesis played out with SNES?

 

I know there are lots of sealed titles out there for Jaguar would this be a reason to attract sealed collectors?

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Please. It wouldn't have been out of the question. Alternate history is fascinating to some people, you know. I agree with them, sort of... Is it as powerful as PSX? No, not really... But in the right hands it could have done better, that's for sure

Here's the thing, though. It didn't do better. For a multitude of reasons that have been discussed to death here, yet there are people who refuse to believe the facts of what actually happened and come up with scenarios about how the Jaguar could've been super successful.

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I think a lot of it has to do with the removal of the complete f**ktards from this community who were ruining the fun for everyone.

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I think a lot of it has to do with the removal of the complete f**ktards from this community who were ruining the fun for everyone.

 

Where'd they all go though? JSII is gone, right? And what about the other guy(s) that could program the system… there a special secret repository they're uploading to that we don't know about? Or have they moved on to bigger and better things you think? I mean, once you've been bitten by the Jag, that scar is with you until the day you die. The ones that have been booted from here surely gotta be doing something Jaguar wise… or?

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Where'd they all go though? JSII is gone, right? And what about the other guy(s) that could program the system… there a special secret repository they're uploading to that we don't know about? Or have they moved on to bigger and better things you think? I mean, once you've been bitten by the Jag, that scar is with you until the day you die. The ones that have been booted from here surely gotta be doing something Jaguar wise… or?

 

Out of sight, out of mind.

 

Sleep easy, friend :)

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So why do I currently like the Jaguar?

 

1) Last Atari system.

2) Has capabilities as a solid 16/32 bit system. Great for many retro titles.

3) Decent Library of games at this point growing all the time.

4) Yes, many games are featured on the Jaguar from the Amiga, PC, Playstation, etc etc. Nice to play all those on one system.

5) Bubsy : Fractured Furry Tales. Suck it Genesis and SNES, you don't have that version. Only the Jaguar. :D

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Well, if you mean this guys who gets the girl (more or less) then, maybe. :D

post-4709-0-24513600-1462941970_thumb.png

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Same here. Found a jag, cd unit, and about 6 cartridges including AVP and a memory track at a local retro shop/record store a few years back for $150. I bought them after I got a controller for about $25 or so online and got to test the system; looks like someone tried to flush the jag cd down the toilet with the amount of corrosion on the daughterboard.

 

Anyway, I think it has to do with the exposure it has gotten in recent years and its history. Atari, the best known company from the pioneering days of video games, made a last desperate gambit with a system that ultimately failed; sounds pretty interesting to me, but I'm one of those people that likes looking into gaming history. It probably also has something to do with the larger number of people getting into the retrogaming scene. Some stay and pay the high prices people ask, some wise up and realize that the insane prices on eBay are unreasonable, others get a bunch of stuff and then dump it all, and the smart ones get out while they can.

 

I am sadly not one of the smart ones as "the orphanage" has another member (after all my complaining of high prices, I bought a Saturn), bringing the total up to 14 consoles.

It's history certainly is rich and interesting! It was the first of many for me and my personal little museum for gaming history has 21 machines (and counting!) The "what if" scenario needs a real good look at it, so many people throw around ideas, but there's never a concrete answer... And there are so many facets to the console that it is tough to say why it went wrong, or at least so badly... Probably why it's popular amongst us gaming historians (if I may use such a phrase)

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