Stupid Things You Hear Collectors Say

[zaneiken]

And why would that be stupid? Maybe ntsc games are cheaper, but factor in the cost of shipping and all that cheapness is undone.

Btw there are plenty of titles that are cheaper here then the us relative, like stadium event.

Games run faster on ntsc, but why would i care, i'm living in a PAL country, i don't have a direct comparision, so i wouldn't notice the diverence.

So why would it be a stupid thing if a collector says he is used to it.

 

Australia is in something of a bubble when it comes to retro games. Not only do PAL games cost more than their NTSC counterparts (even after shipping), but collectors are all too willing to pay a premium on top of that for Australian PAL releases.

[Seob]

NTSC/60fps games not only run faster than most PAL ports, but they also often have a proper music tempo and pitch and always have a more appropriate aspect ratio. If you have never experienced NTSC speed, you have nothing to compare it to. But we can go down this road further of what the original creators intended. Playing an US port of a Japanese game is often one step removed from what the creative team intended. Difficulty levels change, elements get censored, features are added or subtracted and of course there is language translation.

Like i said, before, if it wasn't for the internet, i wouldn't have a direct comparison, so i'm fine with what i got. Also you make it as if all games are developed in either japan or the us. But a lot of game are also developed in europe, so maybe you don't experience all the games as they where intended.

Point is stop acting like you're native format is the only way games should be experienced. Let everybody experience games how they want and accept that there are more ways to enjoy gaming, and stop calling it stupid if somebody is fine with the way they enjoy playing games.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Seob

[EdwardK]

Like i said, before, if it wasn't for the internet, i wouldn't have a direct comparison, so i'm fine with what i got. Also you make it as if all games are developed in either japan or the us. But a lot of game are also developed in europe, so maybe you don't experience all the games as they where intended.

Point is stop acting like you're native format is the only way games should be experienced. Let everybody experience games how they want and accept that there are more ways to enjoy gaming, and stop calling it stupid if somebody is fine with the way they enjoy playing games.

 

Kinda with you on that one but also more to the point, to what end does one have to go to to meet the demands of an NTSC game in a PAL territory? If I wanted a PAL system here, not only do I have to ship one in, get some sort of adapter so my US wall sockets will work with it, then either get a converter to allow the system to properly display on my TV, or buy a TV from said PAL region and address the power concerns yet again. Otherwise my option, depending on the system, is to open a perfectly good system, muck around with the guts and potentially screw it up so I can play games from outside it's region, or do some crazy adapter business because the cartridges are shaped differently. In the end, this doesn't seem worth it to me. It'd be like my redneck self buying a famicom and learning Japanese so I can play Final Fantasy 2 on the original system instead of just playing a port that works here much more easily.

 

Needless to say, the PAL/NTSC purist argument gets on my nerves. And don't even get me started on DVD regions.

[+GoldLeader]

How about, "I got my Nintendo back in 1985"?

 

You got any proof? Didn't think so! You got your Nintendo in 1988 like everyone else, so why don't you STFU!

 

OK Maybe it's not just collectors so much as braggarts, liars, one uppers, and revisionist historians of all stripes, some of whom happen to be collectors. And I'm not sure why this one irks me so much, but I figure it has to do with my actual memory of the Nintendo timeline versus what the internet has told everyone. Does anyone on here really remember hearing about Nintendos in 1985? It's actually a serious question. And for the record I am Not denying that the NES existed in the U.S. in 1985. It's just that if you listen to certain people and certain websites and even certain TV shows etc., they seem to be convinced The Big N was everywhere by 1985. Nope, IIRC, they were Test Marketed in 1985, which means a handful of systems, in a handful of stores, in a handful of cities, if that. I can certainly buy that they were on store shelves by the holiday season of 1986, even if I don't remember them. And I'm not saying my memory's perfect. I graduated High School in 1986 and I just don't remember them at all that year. But even as I generally remember following video games, buying clearance games for Atari and ColecoVision, ordering Starpath Supercharger games through the mail, and driving to arcades etc. as soon as I bought my car, maybe it's because I was getting into cars, girls, and heavy metal, etc. that I missed out.

 

And that's certainly not to say that everyone is lying when they claim they had one in '85. I liken it to the punk rock community hearing old timers who claimed they saw the Sex Pistols in the '70s in the states the first time they were over here. Yes, there were some people at those shows, but there wasn't 100,000 people at those shows, and Yes Nintendo did sell some systems in the States in '85, but not 3 million consoles or anything...

 

When I think of Nintendo, I have incredibly fond memories of getting one in 1987 or 1988 (admittedly my memory's a little hazy here) and of playing it in College in 1989 and beyond...

 

So the point of my post is not just something a stupid collector might say, nor sour grapes that I didn't have an NES in 1985, but that I don't like liars in general, and that it's even worse when they start messing with timelines and memories...

[Schizophretard]

How about, "I got my Nintendo back in 1985"?

 

You got any proof? Didn't think so! You got your Nintendo in 1988 like everyone else, so why don't you STFU!

 

OK Maybe it's not just collectors so much as braggarts, liars, one uppers, and revisionist historians of all stripes, some of whom happen to be collectors. And I'm not sure why this one irks me so much, but I figure it has to do with my actual memory of the Nintendo timeline versus what the internet has told everyone. Does anyone on here really remember hearing about Nintendos in 1985? It's actually a serious question. And for the record I am Not denying that the NES existed in the U.S. in 1985. It's just that if you listen to certain people and certain websites and even certain TV shows etc., they seem to be convinced The Big N was everywhere by 1985. Nope, IIRC, they were Test Marketed in 1985, which means a handful of systems, in a handful of stores, in a handful of cities, if that. I can certainly buy that they were on store shelves by the holiday season of 1986, even if I don't remember them. And I'm not saying my memory's perfect. I graduated High School in 1986 and I just don't remember them at all that year. But even as I generally remember following video games, buying clearance games for Atari and ColecoVision, ordering Starpath Supercharger games through the mail, and driving to arcades etc. as soon as I bought my car, maybe it's because I was getting into cars, girls, and heavy metal, etc. that I missed out.

 

And that's certainly not to say that everyone is lying when they claim they had one in '85. I liken it to the punk rock community hearing old timers who claimed they saw the Sex Pistols in the '70s in the states the first time they were over here. Yes, there were some people at those shows, but there wasn't 100,000 people at those shows, and Yes Nintendo did sell some systems in the States in '85, but not 3 million consoles or anything...

 

When I think of Nintendo, I have incredibly fond memories of getting one in 1987 or 1988 (admittedly my memory's a little hazy here) and of playing it in College in 1989 and beyond...

 

So the point of my post is not just something a stupid collector might say, nor sour grapes that I didn't have an NES in 1985, but that I don't like liars in general, and that it's even worse when they start messing with timelines and memories...

 

I believe my memory is probably of Christmas of '86 . I was born in '81. That would have made me 5 years old. I can remember my first walk to the bus for first grade and this was before that. So, '87 and definitely '88 doesn't seem right. Anyway, I remember my older brother being really into E.T. and Pitfall! for the 2600 while I was into paddle games and dad was into PAC-MAN with dad and I both loving Space Invaders. I remember my older brother playing E.T. properly by reading the manual and mapping out Pitfall! in his head. I remember my dad teaching me the double shot glitch for Space Invaders but I didn't know it was a glitch until the internet because my dad called it a cheat code. I also remember thinking "Dark Vader" was the official name of the model by how my dad presented it. So, we were having a good ole time playing some games that apparently caused a crash in a parallel universe where people can't read or hate PAC-MAN. But then a few months before Christmas my brother keeps going on and on about this new "Atari" that was just launched called the NES and going on about Mario Bros.,"It is like Pitfall! and PAC-MAN mixed because you move like Harry but go through mazes to explore to collect all the coins while bad guys are after you!" or something like that. As a side note, in our family as soon as something big is launched rather it is video game consoles or anything else then the person who most wants it is getting it for Christmas and sometimes birthdays. That holds true even today and every big console one of us got on the launch Christmas or birthday through out our childhood. Dad got the Atari 2600 Vader around release as a replacement for our old Atari, my older brother got NES, SNES, N64, I got SEGA GENESIS, Game Boy, Game Gear, PS2, and my younger brother got PS1 which was kind of surprising to us. That is all I can think of as new but there was a lot in between that were used. Anyway, the NES Christmas my older brother was already going to get it but he hyped up my dad and I to want it too by how amazing he described it. But after he unwrapped it my dad and I looked at the controller and looked at each other like we were both thinking,"Where in the Hell is the joystick? It is just buttons and too many of them!" Then my brother reads the NES manual, hooks it up, reads the Super Mario manual, and then plugs it in to play. Then after a few minutes of getting used to the controls he was flying right threw it like the Wizard. By the time the SNES came out his room already looked like the kind of game rooms people show off now of their collections. He was so addicted that when one time the basement got flooded(his room) he lifted the NES high, sat in a chair with his feet in the water, and played. So, that is a summery of my early memories going from Atari to NES and it had to be the NES launch Christmas because my brother wouldn't wait longer than that.

[8th lutz]

 

Well the hobby is far from dying. While some resellers may buy multiple copies of a game to drive the price up, fact is most people who cry and bitch over what prices are, are the same people who wouldn't pay the going rate anyhow. I mean if they would the resellers wouldn't be buying them all. Think about it, if you are not willing to pay going rate now you don't want it that bad.

 

Just buy it if you want it, stop complaining about it. Resellers are not killing the hobby. Fact is more people want these games than before and people are willing to pay for them. It's plain and simple. If the price is bad it will not sell. If the price is right they will sell. If you want to blame anyone blame Tim Berners-Lee for creating the internet.

 

Prices are not going down anytime soon. These games were available for purchase over the past 20-30 years and now people want to complain over not buying them back when they were $5.

Here is the thing thing though, some of the resellers actually are hurting the hobby. I am saying that because there are resellers did some dishonest things that are a big no-no in this hobby or any hobby for that matter.

 

The Big no-no I am talking about is buying a reproduction of a very rare video game like Coke wins for the Atari 2600 as an example, and than sells it with the claim its not a reproduction.

[HoshiChiri]

Here is the thing thing though, some of the resellers actually are hurting the hobby. I am saying that because there are resellers did some dishonest things that are a big no-no in this hobby or any hobby for that matter.

 

The Big no-no I am talking about is buying a reproduction of a very rare video game like Coke wins for the Atari 2600 as an example, and than sells it with the claim its not a reproduction.

 

You can't put down the entire reseller market for that. For starters, the only reason there's a repro for them to fake is because the game was popular & rare enough to warrant a repro in the first place. No one's making copies of Sonic the Hedgehog to meet demand. Nasty folks turn up anywhere there seems to be an easy dollar to be had.

 

We have a kind of weird symbiosis with the resellers. We need them because they did through all the dusty, gross places we can't or won't to find games. They put up the money for the untested, unsorted piles of random junk. They do the cleaning and the testing- we just get to come along at our leisure and cherry-pick what we want, without the risk. At the same time, we hate the resellers because sometimes we want to dig through the dirty junk and clean and test and take the risks ourselves... and we can't if they've gone through first.

 

Resellers like us because they can make money from us. We pay the markups, we provide tips for what we want to buy so they know what to find, we promote their business for them if they do a good job. They also hate us, because we can be demanding and picky, condemn even the tiniest mistakes, or worse- scam them out of their product.

 

Basically, we're one big pride of cannibalistic lions. You never know if the other's guy going to hunt with you, or just hunt you. They might just do both.

[+GoldLeader]

Schizophretard, on 04 Jun 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:Schizophretard, on 04 Jun 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

 

I believe my memory is probably of Christmas of '86 . I was born in '81. That would have made me 5 years old. I can remember my first walk to the bus for first grade and this was before that. So, '87 and definitely '88 doesn't seem right. Anyway, I remember my older brother being really into E.T. and Pitfall! for the 2600 while I was into paddle games and dad was into PAC-MAN with dad and I both loving Space Invaders. I remember my older brother playing E.T. properly by reading the manual and mapping out Pitfall! in his head. I remember my dad teaching me the double shot glitch for Space Invaders but I didn't know it was a glitch until the internet because my dad called it a cheat code. I also remember thinking "Dark Vader" was the official name of the model by how my dad presented it. So, we were having a good ole time playing some games that apparently caused a crash in a parallel universe where people can't read or hate PAC-MAN. But then a few months before Christmas my brother keeps going on and on about this new "Atari" that was just launched called the NES and going on about Mario Bros.,"It is like Pitfall! and PAC-MAN mixed because you move like Harry but go through mazes to explore to collect all the coins while bad guys are after you!" or something like that. As a side note, in our family as soon as something big is launched rather it is video game consoles or anything else then the person who most wants it is getting it for Christmas and sometimes birthdays. That holds true even today and every big console one of us got on the launch Christmas or birthday through out our childhood. Dad got the Atari 2600 Vader around release as a replacement for our old Atari, my older brother got NES, SNES, N64, I got SEGA GENESIS, Game Boy, Game Gear, PS2, and my younger brother got PS1 which was kind of surprising to us. That is all I can think of as new but there was a lot in between that were used. Anyway, the NES Christmas my older brother was already going to get it but he hyped up my dad and I to want it too by how amazing he described it. But after he unwrapped it my dad and I looked at the controller and looked at each other like we were both thinking,"Where in the Hell is the joystick? It is just buttons and too many of them!" Then my brother reads the NES manual, hooks it up, reads the Super Mario manual, and then plugs it in to play. Then after a few minutes of getting used to the controls he was flying right threw it like the Wizard. By the time the SNES came out his room already looked like the kind of game rooms people show off now of their collections. He was so addicted that when one time the basement got flooded(his room) he lifted the NES high, sat in a chair with his feet in the water, and played. So, that is a summery of my early memories going from Atari to NES and it had to be the NES launch Christmas because my brother wouldn't wait longer than that.

 

8th lutz, on 04 Jun 2016 - 1:57 PM, said:

Here is the thing thing though, some of the resellers actually are hurting the hobby. I am saying that because there are resellers did some dishonest things that are a big no-no in this hobby or any hobby for that matter.

 

The Big no-no I am talking about is buying a reproduction of a very rare video game like Coke wins for the Atari 2600 as an example, and than sells it with the claim its not a reproduction.

 

I definitely agree 8th lutz (and HoshiChiri for that matter), Repros need only be sold as "Repros"; And I put that in quotes because I think Repros need to be clearly labeled somewhere on the cart...

 

And with regard to "resellers" and "collectors"...Resellers hurt the hobby by raising prices, and collectors are the reason we have resellers, because they are often the target of resellers...They are the ones who may be more willing to pay "collector" prices...

 

 

And Thank you so much Schizophretard for relaying the story! That is what I like about the hobby! I like talking to other fans, ... other enthusiasts who play the games, care about the memories, and the timelines, and do their best to keep such information intact...Not stupid collectors (and I'm not calling all collectors stupid) who only care about their collection or making money...

Edited June 5, 2016 by GoldLeader

[+GoldLeader]

One more thing,

 

I'm sure this is obvious, but just in case,...Even as I consider us all "Fans", I guess we're also all "Collectors" (Myself included)...So the distinction can be made here that any vitriol and venom is aimed squarely at "Stupid Collectors" and not at you guys.

[madhatter667]

"They do the cleaning and the testing- we just get to come along at our leisure and cherry-pick what we want, without the risk."

-As someone who has recently received two items that were not as described (at all) items, I have to disagree about the risk. One I put some elbow grease into and got working, the other... I am waiting on a reply from the seller about replacing. It should pan out positive in the end... but there is ALWAYS risk, unless you are buying face to face, and witness the testing.

[HoshiChiri]

"They do the cleaning and the testing- we just get to come along at our leisure and cherry-pick what we want, without the risk."

-As someone who has recently received two items that were not as described (at all) items, I have to disagree about the risk. One I put some elbow grease into and got working, the other... I am waiting on a reply from the seller about replacing. It should pan out positive in the end... but there is ALWAYS risk, unless you are buying face to face, and witness the testing.

Well of course- I was speaking in general terms. Most of the time, if a reseller says "tested, working, great condition", that is what you get. Just like most of the time, "I'll take it, here's my credit card" means they earned money- but sometimes the card is stolen & they have to eat the loss.

 

The point is, collectors and resellers simultaneously hurt and need each other. It's just how the while thing works.

[madhatter667]

Lol. An uneasy symbiosis.

[7800fan]

I do not mind repro as long as it is clear that it is not original.

 

Making Coke Wins and claiming it is 100% genuine original, go as far as making it look like authentic original is asking for trouble.

 

$5 for a clear reproduction CD for example would do great (and quite a few rare TG16 and PCE games were made available at this price) $50 for a reproduction CD, probably not unless it comes with nice looking (and still fairly obvious repro) case and manual and box. $500 for a CD claiming to be original, if I can afford to be without $500 for a few weeks I may buy it, get it appraised by experts, report it as counterfeit, show picture of a random music CD (lots of Justin Bieber CD at Goodwill) getting smashed to appease Paypal's rule and get my $500 back plus getting one reproduction CD marked as not genuine.

[Schizophretard]

I don't know if this has ever been said but this is a stupid thing I get an impression of with some collectors:

 

"I use emulation because I'm a gamer and not a collector. Games are meant to be played instead of sitting on a shelf. That is why my collection...umm... I mean library of games consists of emulators for every system, complete ROM sets for each, box art in organized front ends, manual scans, etc. Collecting is for the OCD who like to hoard and organize things . But I'm a gamer. Therefore, I have it all neatly organized in one computer. My colle... library is complete for life and yours would be too if you gave up collecting for gaming on emulators."

[Keatah]

That's my mantra. I live it and breathe it every single day.

 

If I were to collect for 25 different consoles I would not have time and room for the most awesome Apple II stash in the entire mid-west.

[Gentlegamer]

Nintendo's d-pad was a step backward. We lost half the precision and it took years to get that back. Further, Nintendo forced most players to control with their non-dominant hand. Sure thats how many people learned and are comfortable, but without choice and would have possibly been better players using their dominant hand. Many arcade games are left handed but they are also designed to maximise quarters per hour. Why would Nintendo make a left handed controller? Simply because the inventor is left handed.

 

Nintendo Atari case was about copyright infringement, Atari tried to use Nintendo monopoly as a defense but Atari was denied any defense because it was dishonest in obtaining patent information. Nintendo's lockout chip is monopolistic and illegal by anyone's standard. It was not properly challenged and for years Nintendo got away with it. Microsoft was successfully sued by Netscape for doing alot less than what Nintendo got away with.

 

Edit:

Not saying Nintendo's monopoly was good or bad, just saying legally it shouldn't have happened.

 

You literally don't know what you're talking about regarding the lock out chip and third party licensing.*

 

Did you know? Every single platform holder since the NES uses the same concept. Sega. Sony. Microsoft. All of them. Nintendo invented the business model, it's legal, and did the hard work to bring video games back to mainstream retailers. Everyone else has been figuratively riding Nintendo's coattails in how their core business works.

 

*Perhaps you're referring to the license agreements that prohibited publishing on other platforms? Even that isn't illegal, there are still third-party exclusive games to this day. The only thing found contractually unenforceable was exclusivity without consideration.

 

Your statements on this ought to be added to this thread's topic.

[mr_me]

 

You literally don't know what you're talking about regarding the lock out chip and third party licensing.*

 

Did you know? Every single platform holder since the NES uses the same concept. Sega. Sony. Microsoft. All of them. Nintendo invented the business model, it's legal, and did the hard work to bring video games back to mainstream retailers. Everyone else has been figuratively riding Nintendo's coattails in how their core business works.

 

*Perhaps you're referring to the license agreements that prohibited publishing on other platforms? Even that isn't illegal, there are still third-party exclusive games to this day. The only thing found contractually unenforceable was exclusivity without consideration.

 

Your statements on this ought to be added to this thread's topic.

Yes you are right some of my words you quoted were not correct. However, as I mentioned before, the technology itself is not illegal, the monopoly Nintendo had in the late eighties was illegal, regardless if their business practices were fair or not. Had anyone properly challenged Nintendo's monopoly, their lockout chip would have been ordered gone. Imagine if Microsoft put a lock on Microsoft Windows so any software developer would need Microsoft's permission to publish software. Nintendo's monopoly resolved itself.

 

edit:

for Nintendo's NES market share numbers please see post 172 ( http://atariage.com/forums/topic/252820-stupid-things-you-hear-collectors-say/?p=3523368 )

Edited June 6, 2016 by mr_me

[Gentlegamer]

Yes you are right some of my words you quoted were not correct. However, as I mentioned before, the technology itself is not illegal, the monopoly Nintendo had in the late eighties was illegal, regardless if their business practices were fair or not. Had anyone properly challenged Nintendo's monopoly, their lockout chip would have been ordered gone. Imagine if Microsoft put a lock on Microsoft Windows so any software developer would need Microsoft's permission to publish software. Nintendo's monopoly resolved itself.

 

Keeping it to console video games, what do you think the Xbox is?

[78001987]

 

Keeping it to console video games, what do you think the Xbox is?

A hunk of crap?

[mr_me]

 

You literally don't know what you're talking about regarding the lock out chip and third party licensing.*

 

Did you know? Every single platform holder since the NES uses the same concept. Sega. Sony. Microsoft. All of them. Nintendo invented the business model, it's legal, and did the hard work to bring video games back to mainstream retailers. Everyone else has been figuratively riding Nintendo's coattails in how their core business works.

 

*Perhaps you're referring to the license agreements that prohibited publishing on other platforms? Even that isn't illegal, there are still third-party exclusive games to this day. The only thing found contractually unenforceable was exclusivity without consideration.

 

Your statements on this ought to be added to this thread's topic.

Your presumption that something is legal because people get away with it is not correct either. Maybe it's come up in court, I don't know. I do know that circumventing lockout/licensing has, and found to be legal (Sega vs Accolade). Cases like this was very expensive for the smaller developers and unlikely to happen. Laws may have changed since the 1990s but jailbreaking your Iphone was legal. Nothing wrong with negotiating an exclusive deal. Regardless of the law, whether software lockout was good or bad is another matter.

[Flojomojo]

I'm no lawyer, and it's been a while since I thought about this, but yeah, platform control makes sense -- it can be argued it was a lack of platform control that killed the pre-crash systems like the Atari VCS. Lockout chips serve a purpose, too -- Sega did it as well. But THIS

 

*Perhaps you're referring to the license agreements that prohibited publishing on other platforms? Even that isn't illegal, there are still third-party exclusive games to this day. The only thing found contractually unenforceable was exclusivity without consideration.

 

this is the offensive stuff about the NES era. If you are going to publish for NES, WE will make the cartridges, WE will tell you how many games you will release under our (ha!) "seal of quality," WE will prohibit you from putting your stuff on any other system, otherwise, no deal. It's how we got as many publishers as we did -- many of them are fronts for others, simply to avoid Nintendo's onerous rules. It's no wonder that the NES was an anomaly in terms of popularity and market share, given this anti-competitive environment Nintendo thrust onto the scene.

[Gentlegamer]

I don't know.

 

You can say that again.

[mr_me]

I don't know what caused the crash, just want to point out that Pac-man and ET for the Atari VCS were both Atari creations, and are commonly referred to as examples of poor quality games.

[toiletunes]

"Nintendo bought out Atari in '84-'85 and shut them down."

[78001987]

 

You can say that again.

coming from the guy who claimed Nintendo invented the dpad, this is hilarious.