ruimtemuis Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 I would like at least one PAL copy please. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcadegeek23 Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 I'm in for a NTSC. Pokey would be awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrekMD Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Voted! NTSC for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dauber Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 If there's a list being made, add me for an NTSC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 I would like to see a pal playthru. Just to compare and see the boss. I do not have a pal console and never will get one but I will be able to transpose the missing graphics with my eyes while playing the NTSC version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 I'm curious if the sound slows down in the PAL version. I noticed that the sound would slow down when there was lots of action on the screen in the NTSC video. I couldn't tell if the animation slowed down though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 The sound doesn't slow down in the PAL version. As part of the conversion, the game's static framerate was changed to a dynamic framerate. The game mixes it's game logic with it's DL building, so something had to give. That said, the in-game music isn't stellar, even in PAL. As Trebor said, the music can be turned off independent from the sound effects. Here's the PAL in-game music, for your musical enjoyment and ring-tone needs... toki-pal-in-game-music.mp3 ...I stopped it shortly after it started looping. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 I bet that could be tweaked to sound better. It sounds like they are doing some kind of modulation that needs to be toned down a bit. Edit: It reminds me of the type of TIA sound effect used for an engine sound. I wonder if it is a TIA distortion mode or some kind of modulation they are attempting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 The music suffers from a few different issues that cause most of the tune to sound muddy. 1. A lack of note envelopes. 2. The composer's desire to fill in all of the silence. 3. The composer's desire to stick to short bass notes, which makes pitch relation difficult for most people. (some of those notes are 4 waves long) 4. Using one voice for music and another for sfx, rather than a multiplexing engine. Here's the waveform visual, which illustrates the above nicely. The original composer might have been planning an upgrade. We'll likely never know. The goal of this conversion project was just to make a very good and playable proto available on NTSC, rather than upgrade sprites, sounds, etc. IMO experiencing the genuine proto warts-and-all is more interesting than a homebrew+proto hybrid would have been. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Looks like the sound code is simple/compact. Could it be moved to the beginning of the vertical blank so it doesn't vary with the frame rate and not significantly affect the graphics? Then it could at least have a constant tempo. This change would be consistent with the spirit of the release since it would actually be closer to the original PAL version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinju Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 The whole, shoulda, woulda, coulda, needs this and that needs to be saved for a new thread when and if the owners of this decide to release the source code and allow others to hack it up and make it better and or add new features can go nuts!I get the desire to dig for reasons as to why devs did this that and the other but lets just let these guys release this game in its as natural as it could be released state and enjoy and be thankful that they are taking the time to do so.Quite a few Proto owners are not as open and not willing to share their finds, lets be thankful for the ones who like to share with the community and be fortunate to be able to play these lost games.Not trying to white knight anything just see a lot of chit chat here about lets make it better NOW before we even get to sample it first!/off the soapbox! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 release the source code LOL, what source code? Would have been nice, if we had it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinju Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 LOL, what source code? Would have been nice, if we had it. Gotcha, I have been following both threads pretty loosely so I was not aware! But still! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Looks like the sound code is simple/compact. Could it be moved to the beginning of the vertical blank so it doesn't vary with the frame rate and not significantly affect the graphics? Then it could at least have a constant tempo. This change would be consistent with the spirit of the release since it would actually be closer to the original PAL version. The music code is intertwined with the SFX code, so it's not simple and compact. The game never waits for vertical blank, but rather tracks the visible screen zones via an index that's updated during NMI. Various routines switch the bank, which makes relocating them problematic because they'll glitch the screen if executed at the wrong time. The SFX+Music routine is one such routine. I'm not looking to take on major rewrites as to how the game display is managed. Save that for SuperToki ExtraGoodPlusEdition or whatever, where someone can add Pokey sound, updated graphics, and all that jazz. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 If I have a PAL capable monitor (which I do), and a UAV board in my 7800 giving me s-video, can I play the PAL game in my NTSC console? Sorry for the noob question. My 7800 has been boxed, anxiously waiting the XM upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 The original composer might have been planning an upgrade. We'll likely never know. The goal of this conversion project was just to make a very good and playable proto available on NTSC, rather than upgrade sprites, sounds, etc. IMO experiencing the genuine proto warts-and-all is more interesting than a homebrew+proto hybrid would have been. :thumbsup: Someday I wouldn't mind trying SuperToki ExtraGoodPlusEdition or the like but to me a big part of stuff like this is experiencing what wasn't but almost was. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 If I have a PAL capable monitor (which I do), and a UAV board in my 7800 giving me s-video, can I play the PAL game in my NTSC console? Sorry for the noob question. My 7800 has been boxed, anxiously waiting the XM upgrade. The PAL Toki will technically play in your NTSC console (it's signed) but it won't display correctly. The Maria chip in the console is responsible for how many lines are in a frame, and how many frames per second are drawn. Playing the PAL version of the game in an NTSC console will cause prominent glitching *and* music slowdowns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartfox Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) Looking good. I would want a NTSC cart as well. By the way, being that this is a complete beta does that mean it has an ending after the final boss is defeated? Looks like the NTSC version is winning the polls by a HUGE margin. Edited May 26, 2016 by Tartfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NostAlgae37 Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 The PAL Toki will technically play in your NTSC console (it's signed) but it won't display correctly. The Maria chip in the console is responsible for how many lines are in a frame, and how many frames per second are drawn. Playing the PAL version of the game in an NTSC console will cause prominent glitching *and* music slowdowns. If I have a console modded with the Euro OS from Best Electronics, would I be better off opting for the PAL version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I'd love an NTSC cart (and have voted accordingly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I can have my case guy design one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Looks like the NTSC version is winning the polls by a HUGE margin. The question is not about winning, it is about figuring out how many to produce for each region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 If I have a console modded with the Euro OS from Best Electronics, would I be better off opting for the PAL version? The OS/boot-ROM doesn't set the video characteristics, which is the key factor here. Those are hard-coded in Maria and some other components. Stick to the NTSC cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Quite a few Proto owners are not as open and not willing to share their finds, lets be thankful for the ones who like to share with the community and be fortunate to be able to play these lost games ^^^^ This ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixMoonPatrol Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Please add me for a NTSC version. Those screens looks really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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