Andromeda Stardust Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 PAL NTSC or bust. I don't own PAL hardware or displays that support it. In all seriousness, man that sucks. So guy shows up with a dumped prototype and simply leaves town? Is he alright? For the benefit of game preservation, it would be best if this gets out, even in unfinished form. How is progress on the NTSC conversion going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I doubt that, he has other stuff in the works. Plus, we all have lives, everyone has their reasons. No need to worry about preservation, I had a monkey chisel the code in stone. Half my garage is full of stone tablets. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 ...No need to worry about preservation, I had a monkey chisel the code in stone. Half my garage is full of stone tablets. He appears disgruntled. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 PAL I don't understand. Read the topic title = PAL / NTSC Edition Cartridge POLL In his last communication he said that R EV ENG helped him make an NTSC version ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 It is now running in NTSC, but some glitches are still present, due to original design decisions. I already kind of mentioned this already a few posts back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I don't understand. Read the topic title = PAL / NTSC Edition Cartridge POLL In his last communication he said that R EV ENG helped him make an NTSC version ? In short, it is a prototype not a 100% finished product. The background 'melody' is a testimony to that. Nonetheless, the game can be played through from beginning to end for what is present (Which appears to be the vast majority of the Arcade game for those that are familiar with the original). Think of it more along the lines of a "Klax" prototype as far as completion is concerned, as opposed to a "Rampart" or "Pit-Fighter" proto. PAL users are in luck that the programming is targeted for their region originally and is nearly completely free, if not completely free, of any momentary graphical glitches. An NTSC conversion was performed. As CPUWIZ made mentioned here, some programming choices in the original code results in the NTSC graphically glitching momentary in some spots when the conversion was done. It is noticeable in the below video which is taken from gameplay of the NTSC conversion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGGZFlK-_ek 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 An NTSC conversion was performed. As CPUWIZ made mentioned here, some programming choices in the original code results in the NTSC graphically glitching momentary in some spots when the conversion was done. Oh, you mean like the atrocity that is The Great Giana Sisters for the C64? Played that in the 80's and then decades later, see it *still* hasn't been fixed. Flashing/flickering intermittent blocks of crap appearing on screen here and there. ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Oh, you mean like the atrocity that is The Great Giana Sisters for the C64? Grew up playing that crap in the 80's and then decades later, see it *still* hasn't been fixed. Flashing/flickering intermittent blocks of crap appearing on screen here and there. ugh Nowhere near as common. Ditto with the glitching madness that is PAL Rambo - First Blood Part II under a NTSC C64. Again, the video posted above is a good reference for what to expect and experience regarding glitching and the consistency of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I don't think I had seen this NTSC footage before! It does look amazing. Here is what you do...if the game in NTSC is currently playable even with the glitches, then start making boxes, manuals, and carts...and price them at $60 each in the current rom code state. Take $10 from the sale of each one and put it into CPU's GoFund Me.... And let it start rolling in. You got my $60!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The NTSC conversion looks really good all things considered. Hopefully a way to disable the background music can be hacked in, though! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The NTSC conversion looks really good all things considered. Hopefully a way to disable the background music can be hacked in, though! As noted throughout this (pretty long) thread, music can be turned off in the menu. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 In short, it is a prototype not a 100% finished product. The background 'melody' is a testimony to that. Nonetheless, the game can be played through from beginning to end for what is present (Which appears to be the vast majority of the Arcade game for those that are familiar with the original). Think of it more along the lines of a "Klax" prototype as far as completion is concerned, as opposed to a "Rampart" or "Pit-Fighter" proto. PAL users are in luck that the programming is targeted for their region originally and is nearly completely free, if not completely free, of any momentary graphical glitches. An NTSC conversion was performed. As CPUWIZ made mentioned here, some programming choices in the original code results in the NTSC graphically glitching momentary in some spots when the conversion was done. It is noticeable in the below video which is taken from gameplay of the NTSC conversion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGGZFlK-_ek What you are hearing is the bassline without the melody. It's obviously an incomplete soundtrack. Given the two channels of the TIA, you can have melody + bass + no sound effects. You can have melody + sound effects + no bass. Or Bass + sound effects + no melody, which is the current state. A fourth ideal option is to have all three and have some sound effects mask the melody and other sound effects mask the bass. Many NES games used sound effects that temporarily masked whatever channels the background musical score shared with it and it was hardly noticeable. Clearly this game was still in development and the sound effects were not finished at the time of this proto. I don't really have issue with it, but an option to mute the background music would be ideal given the obnoxious qualities of the naked bassline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 ...I don't really have issue with it, but an option to mute the background music would be ideal given the obnoxious qualities of the naked bassline. As noted throughout this (pretty long) thread, music can be turned off in the menu. Side note: Sound effects can be turned on/off as well. The option is present on the same screen as the music toggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Anyone ever turn sound effects off and see if the music gets the extra channel? If it could have been programmed that way not sure.. To me it sounds like many atari games of the time on the 2600. Great!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Runner 87 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) Yes, some 20-odd years ago in fact! Sorry, you did not specify what system! Speaking of the Atari lynx, I have both the 1 and 2 models and modded with Mcwill screen with tagine options and VGA connection. ?My favorite handheld console still to this day .... And as far as carts, I have the whole collection of original released titles including the rare ones, as well as most homebrews and unreleased titles that came out long after Lynx was canceled..... Toki is one of my favorite titles for the lynx. Excellent accurate port for the arcade title. Great game, which is why I am so eager to see this come out on cart for the 7800. From YouTube videos I've seen of the 7800 version, it really impresses me because it looks like it really pushes the 7800 capability. Wouod of been a great game to compete with the NES had Atari would of been wise enough to put out more titles like this. There were alot of great titles planned that Atari 7800 scrapped or never released for the 7800, and in my opinion I see that as inexcuseable, especially when they only put out about 50 titles, which is insane. LoL. Edited May 6, 2017 by Stun Runner 87 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Runner 87 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) Dunno, I invested several hundred dollars a couple of years ago, to make this run possible. I even prepped boards, of which I used quite a few by now, but even re-ordered more, to make sure stock is on hand. He seems to have disappeared and I am a man of my word and will not do anything with the ROM I am trusted with. I have cleaned shells, label sheets, boards and EPROM's for about 100 copies. Not sure how many more years I will hold onto all the items. LOL Here are 100 purple MegaCart boards for Toki... Wow bro. You went through alot of trouble, money and time to help him get this out, which we certainly appreciate. I wonder why he dossapeared on you like that. ? But as you said in earlier comment, you don't seem mad at him and have a positive attitude. I can't help but to wonder if he is still alive or what happened to the mysterious guy ..... ? Edited May 6, 2017 by Stun Runner 87 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Runner 87 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) It is now running in NTSC, but some glitches are still present, due to original design decisions. I already kind of mentioned this already a few posts back. Even unfinished, it looks great and would sell.Besides, the few minor glitches are not catastrophic by any means or even that bad. A release of NTCS Toki even not 100% finished with the those almost i noticabele little minor glitches will still be a smash hit. In my opinion this looks like one of the very best games for the 7800 just like it is in its present form.. ? I know I would gladly pay the price to buy a few carts. Your efforts are appreciated. ?????? Edited May 6, 2017 by Stun Runner 87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Anyone ever turn sound effects off and see if the music gets the extra channel? Yes. There is no change to the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Runner 87 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Yes. There is no change to the music. I know this may sound weird, but me personally, I like the creepy 7800 Toki music and sound. Lmao. ?????? Its got the kind of strange charm that most original 7800 games have, so Toki will fit right into the 7800 game catalog perfectly. I approve.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Does anyone else get tired about people complaining about sound in 7800 games. At this point, isn't it like "no crap that the TIA sound isn't great ... move on already?" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 When it comes to 7800 TIA sound, truth is and more often than not, I'm actually surprised at how good it *can* sound in certain games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 When it comes to 7800 TIA sound, truth is and more often than not, I'm actually surprised at how good it *can* sound in certain games. The TIA usually sounds like crap..yes. But at the time it was what we thought it should be. And it can be made to sound pretty amazing. Pac-Man 4k is all you need to hear to know that it is possible to some degree to do decent sound. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 ...Pac-Man 4k is all you need to hear to know that it is possible to some degree to do decent sound. Ditto with Joe's DK remake for the 2600. Its TIA sound effects puts the original 7800 Donkey Kong's TIA sound effects to shame. The following two TIA sound based homebrew games come to my mind first, when thinking how good the TIA can sound when done right: 2600 Man Goes Down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQPdbdQO7RY 7800 T:ME Salvo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz1IvvzABP0 The Perceptual Tuning Primer article from the 7800 8-bit Dev site is fantastic resources in understanding how to keep the TIA in tune, sounding great. The page is complete with examples and explanation for those interested. A really great read. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Or Matthias getting speech out of just the TIA with Tainted Love. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 When it comes to 7800 TIA sound, truth is and more often than not, I'm actually surprised at how good it *can* sound in certain games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mht6Kkg8uhM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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