Jump to content
Tony Cruise

Cavern Fighter for Colecovision

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

Interesting because you are one of the worst offenders. A few years back, I had seen someone on this forum make a valid complaint about not being able to purchase your games. You responded by berating him for not taking the time to contact you about purchasing because you would always sell.

Excuse me, did you just call me self-entitled? Really? Your definition of self-entitlement must differ from mine.

 

5 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

I've contacted you about games, and you said not a single game you produced or planed on producing was available or ever would be. You've made it like a private club where only a few anointed individuals are permitted admission. Many people have permanently abandoned Coleco for other communities that are more fan-friendly.

Ah, so it doesn't seem friendly to you personally, therefore it's not friendly to anyone else. Sure, buddy, whatever you say. Also, I doubt ColecoVision fans would "abandon" this community over just little old me. I would tend to believe that they move on simply because they want to pursue other interests. I've seen plenty of people move on like this over the years.

 

Team Pixelboy is not a private club. Anyone can pre-order games but there is such a thing as a deadline for placing a pre-order. And just in case you missed it, I explained my reasons for not accepting new pre-orders in the most recent Team Pixelboy News Bulletin, which I posted on August 7th. Whether you agree with my reasons or not, that's your thing.

 

5 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

I routinely give you high praise because you've done some of the most exceptional work for the community. Yet many of your business practices are head-scratching. I spoke to an Atari Age employee about these issues, and he said, "you are preaching to the choir" and couldn't understand the philosophy.

Well then, let me attempt to explain things to you as clearly as I can: Team Pixelboy is a hobby for me, not a business, so the term "business practices" doesn't really apply. The number of copies of each game I release is dependent on a few factors, like availability of materials, production deadlines, and motivation (as people will surely understand when they think of Space Shuttle... Really sorry about that... :ponder: ). And all of that broils down to a question of timing for ColecoVision fans who want to buy these games. I try to leave the window open for people who are interested, but that window eventually closes. If you miss it, then what can I say?

 

Also, please keep in mind that I want to retire. But I'm not going to just suddenly ride off into the sunset, I have a responsibility to honor recorded pre-orders. If I was a self-entitled individual, I wouldn't care about that, I would just drop everything and go.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

Interesting because you are one of the worst offenders. A few years back, I had seen someone on this forum make a valid complaint about not being able to purchase your games. You responded by berating him for not taking the time to contact you about purchasing because you would always sell.

 

I've contacted you about games, and you said not a single game you produced or planed on producing was available or ever would be. You've made it like a private club where only a few anointed individuals are permitted admission. Many people have permanently abandoned Coleco for other communities that are more fan-friendly.

 

I routinely give you high praise because you've done some of the most exceptional work for the community. Yet many of your business practices are head-scratching. I spoke to an Atari Age employee about these issues, and he said, "you are preaching to the choir" and couldn't understand the philosophy.

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed!

 

Do you comprehend that Pixelboy is not a big business or even a small one like AtariAge? He is basically a one man operation that offers a means of manufacture and distribution to programmers. He has made it abundantly clear that he can’t keep stocks of previous releases  and only in special cases will offer the chance to fill custom orders of old titles as long as boxes and manuals are still available.

 

Pixelboy has also been VERY generous throughout the years in releasing rom images of games he has released. All but the latest releases have had their rom image made available that can be played via emulators, AtariMax multicarts and the Phoenix. In a couple months, Christmas morning, he will make further rom images available. You can find all these rom images by using the SEARCH function.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NIAD said:

Pixelboy has also been VERY generous throughout the years in releasing rom images of games he has released. All but the latest releases have had their rom image made available that can be played via emulators, AtariMax multicarts and the Phoenix. In a couple months, Christmas morning, he will make further rom images available. You can find all these rom images by using the SEARCH function.

Plus the fact that Pixelboy organised a large release of budget games, a significant undertaking in itself, simply to raise money to help with the hospital bills of the wife of one of our most talented developers.  That was totally selfless and I salute Pixelboy for that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This dude owes Tony Cruise an apology!

 

Cavern Fighter is not a 1:1 port/conversion of Scramble, if it was, it would be called Scramble. It is a damn good ground up build and the programmer chose to play within the 32K ROM /1K RAM limits of the CV. An exact 1:1 port would have probably required breaking the 32K rom barrier via the use of a Bank Switching Cart PCB, but not the Opcode SGM.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Pixelboy said:

Excuse me, did you just call me self-entitled? Really? Your definition of self-entitlement must differ from mine.

 

Ah, so it doesn't seem friendly to you personally, therefore it's not friendly to anyone else. Sure, buddy, whatever you say. Also, I doubt ColecoVision fans would "abandon" this community over just little old me. I would tend to believe that they move on simply because they want to pursue other interests. I've seen plenty of people move on like this over the years.

 

Team Pixelboy is not a private club. Anyone can pre-order games but there is such a thing as a deadline for placing a pre-order. And just in case you missed it, I explained my reasons for not accepting new pre-orders in the most recent Team Pixelboy News Bulletin, which I posted on August 7th. Whether you agree with my reasons or not, that's your thing.

 

Well then, let me attempt to explain things to you as clearly as I can: Team Pixelboy is a hobby for me, not a business, so the term "business practices" doesn't really apply. The number of copies of each game I release is dependent on a few factors, like availability of materials, production deadlines, and motivation (as people will surely understand when they think of Space Shuttle... Really sorry about that... :ponder: ). And all of that broils down to a question of timing for ColecoVision fans who want to buy these games. I try to leave the window open for people who are interested, but that window eventually closes. If you miss it, then what can I say?

 

Also, please keep in mind that I want to retire. But I'm not going to just suddenly ride off into the sunset, I have a responsibility to honor recorded pre-orders. If I was a self-entitled individual, I wouldn't care about that, I would just drop everything and go.

 

I appreciate the response. You probably don't understand there is genuine frustration from ColecoVision fans. I frequently hear from people that they've lost interest in ColecoVision because the games are too expensive and too hard to get. It's not just Team Pixelboy, but CollectorVision, and Opcode as well.

 

I hear what you are saying about not being a business. Although, I am not sure why Atari developers have figured it out. Their games are cheaper and widely available. How is Champ Games crushing it?

 

The material cost of producing a game is a few dollars per unit. Once you've recouped the development cost, every game sold after is gravy. It is such a massive ROI; I'd think they would be available for years instead of sold out before even released.

 

If you are ready to retire, I can imagine you don't want to deal with sales. It seems like Atari developers have turned the sales and marketing over to Atari Age, and from what I remember, the employee was befuddled that you were releasing so little.

 

Anyway, I am a fan of Team Pixelboy and recognize you've done some of the system's most stellar work. It's a shame that Coleco Holdings is such a disaster because maybe they could've effectively marketed these products. Many fans have no idea they make new games for the system. A larger fan base means the cost of games can drop, and as the price drops, more fans come. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, NIAD said:

This dude owes Tony Cruise an apology!

 

Cavern Fighter is not a 1:1 port/conversion of Scramble, if it was, it would be called Scramble. It is a damn good ground up build and the programmer chose to play within the 32K ROM /1K RAM limits of the CV. An exact 1:1 port would have probably required breaking the 32K rom barrier via the use of a Bank Switching Cart PCB, but not the Opcode SGM.

No, I don't owe an apology. When someone puts a game up for sale, they should be open to feedback. Are you in a cult?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

It's a shame that Coleco Holdings is such a disaster because maybe they could've effectively marketed these products. Many fans have no idea they make new games for the system.

That is patently untrue - Coleco Holdings do NOT make games for the CV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ikrananka said:

That is patently untrue - Coleco Holdings do NOT make games for the CV.

I didn't say they did. My point is they could market games and products for developers. If Coleco were smart, they'd be selling Opcode's SGM on their site along with games. The fact they purchased 50 Phoenix units from CollectorVision is a good sign. My hope is Coleco will buy more if sales go well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

I didn't say they did.

Re-read what you wrote - the two sentences I quoted.  I don't see how else that can be interpreted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ikrananka said:

Re-read what you wrote - the two sentences I quoted.  I don't see how else that can be interpreted.

Do they make new games for ColecoVision? Yes. Are there significant numbers of people who don't know they make new games for ColecoVision? Yes. Does Coleco Holdings have more reach to market the fact these new games are being made? Yes.

 

What here is untrue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

Do they make new games for ColecoVision? Yes. Are there significant numbers of people who don't know they make new games for ColecoVision? Yes. Does Coleco Holdings have more reach to market the fact these new games are being made? Yes.

 

What here is untrue?

Okay, name me a new game they have made for the CV?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

The material cost of producing a game is a few dollars per unit. Once you've recouped the development cost, every game sold after is gravy. It is such a massive ROI; I'd think they would be available for years instead of sold out before even released.

WHAAAAAT??????  😮  😮  😮 

 

Dude, you've just proven to everyone here just how clueless you are about complete-in-box homebrewing.

 

For your information, producing boxes, manuals and carts is EXPENSIVE for low production runs like mine, and I sell my games AT COST, with no profit margin. And I have to sell a LOT of games to recoup my money. You don't do homebrewing like this for money, this niche market is way too small. I'm glad there are still enough ColecoVision fans out there who buy Team Pixelboy titles, so even after a decade of doing what I do, I can still be confident that I will recoup my invested money.

 

Really, why don't YOU try it? No, really, go ahead! Have boxes professionally printed on cardboard, full-color manuals printed on glossy paper, cartridges with actual working electronics inside, and don't forget the styrofoam inserts to put inside the boxes. We'll see if you can make that happen for "a few dollars per unit".  :roll: 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ikrananka said:

Okay, name me a new game they have made for the CV?

I'm not sure if you are playing a game or are serious. I have multiple paragraphs referencing Team Pixelboy, CollectorVision, and Opcode making games. I end by saying it's a shame Coleco Holding can't market these products because many don't know they make new games for the system.

If you can't infer what I mean from the pronoun, please let's drop this conversation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

I'm not sure if you are playing a game or are serious. I have multiple paragraphs referencing Team Pixelboy, CollectorVision, and Opcode making games. I end by saying it's a shame Coleco Holding can't market these products because many don't know they make new games for the system.

If you can't infer what I mean from the pronoun, please let's drop this conversation.

Well, I'm happy to drop the conversation - I just wish you would also do that.  You're clearly here only to stir up trouble and controversy as some have done in the past.  I look forward to you getting bored and moving on with your ridiculous assertions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Pixelboy said:

WHAAAAAT??????  😮  😮  😮 

 

Dude, you've just proven to everyone here just how clueless you are about complete-in-box homebrewing.

 

For your information, producing boxes, manuals and carts is EXPENSIVE for low production runs like mine, and I sell my games AT COST, with no profit margin. And I have to sell a LOT of games to recoup my money. You don't do homebrewing like this for money, this niche market is way too small. I'm glad there are still enough ColecoVision fans out there who buy Team Pixelboy titles, so even after a decade of doing what I do, I can still be confident that I will recoup my invested money.

 

Really, why don't YOU try it? No, really, go ahead! Have boxes professionally printed on cardboard, full-color manuals printed on glossy paper, cartridges with actual working electronics inside, and don't forget the styrofoam inserts to put inside the boxes. We'll see if you can make that happen for "a few dollars per unit".  :roll: 

 

Okay, I am not looking for a fight. I know of no Team Pixelboy title available right now except on eBay where the price is often over $100.

 

Meanwhile, Atari 2600 has 100 titles for sale on this site alone. A large percentage of them are listed at $25. I can't remember the last time I paid that little for a Coleco game.

Atari Age is making a profit on these $25 games. How are they doing it?

 

I recall seeing you state you would only produce 50 games for specific titles. Keeping the number so small is inflating your per-unit production cost. Your products are so good that I am confident I could sell hundreds more than you currently are.

 

For example, it's unfortunate you didn't capitalize on the Nether Dungeon game. I'm positive you could have sold many units if you negotiated a deal to bundled a cart with the Max Reload DVD. If that weren't feasible, another option would be to include an advert for the game with the DVD. Still, another option would be to produce five times the amount you did, which would drive down the per-unit cost, and aggressively market it.

 

I have a strong background in sales and marketing, and I've noticed many missed opportunities. However, I understand these things are easier said than done. I would like to see Coleco have some sort of revival before fading into total obscurity, but every passing year makes that less likely. The chance may have died with the Chameleon debacle. Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Miner Jumpman said:

Okay, I am not looking for a fight. I know of no Team Pixelboy title available right now except on eBay where the price is often over $100.

That's eBay for you. Under normal circumstances, I offer my games in the 40$-to-50$ range, with a few titles going over 50 bucks, and the higher price is usually linked to higher production costs, which includes paying programmers for every copy sold.

 

Quote

 

Meanwhile, Atari 2600 has 100 titles for sale on this site alone. A large percentage of them are listed at $25. I can't remember the last time I paid that little for a Coleco game. Atari Age is making a profit on these $25 games. How are they doing it?

No idea. I haven't really kept up with prices and sales where 2600 homebrewing is concerned. The 2600 community is a lot more active than the ColecoVision one, and it's always been this way.

 

Quote

I recall seeing you state you would only produce 50 games for specific titles. Keeping the number so small is inflating your per-unit production cost. Your products are so good that I am confident I could sell hundreds more than you currently are.

No, that 50-copy limit is specifically for Nether Dungeon, which is a special cartridge-only release. I usually offer more copies than that for regular CIB titles. But yeah, that doesn't stop sellers on eBay from trying to score big profit margins with my games. I'm not the only one, the same happens with CollectorVision and Opcode titles. But you may notice those games stay on eBay for weeks and even months before they find a buyer, because nobody wants to pay those crazy prices.

 

Quote

For example, it's unfortunate you didn't capitalize on the Nether Dungeon game. I'm positive you could have sold many units if you negotiated a deal to bundled a cart with the Max Reload DVD. If that weren't feasible, another option would be to include an advert for the game with the DVD. Still, another option would be to produce five times the amount you did, which would drive down the per-unit cost, and aggressively market it.

The reason why I released only 50 copies of Nether Dungeon is because the game is a slightly modified re-release of Deep Dungeon Adventure, a game I released years ago as part of the Budget Series in higher numbers. This means the majority of ColecoVision fans already own the game, and I couldn't expect them to pay more money just to buy the same game. I probably could have sold more than 50 copies, but as I stated before, my reserves of cartridge casings is limited. So 50 copies is the best I can do under these circumstances.

 

Quote

I have a strong background in sales and marketing, and I've noticed many missed opportunities. However, I understand these things are easier said than done. I would like to see Coleco have some sort of revival before fading into total obscurity, but every passing year makes that less likely. The chance may have died with the Chameleon debacle. Peace.

There will come a time when very, very few people will care about the ColecoVision like we do now. We'll be old people and the future 30-somethings and 40-somethings will be yearning for the games of their youth, namely consoles that came after the Atari/Coleco/Inty. The ColecoVision is not something you want to invest in as a serious business venture. If you want to make money, try releasing games like Venture and Pepper II on today's smartphones and tablets. You may fare a little better than catering to almost-40-year-old hardware.

 

Edited by Pixelboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Pixelboy said:

 

 

For your information, producing boxes, manuals and carts is EXPENSIVE for low production runs like mine, and I sell my games AT COST, with no profit margin. And I have to sell a LOT of games to recoup my money. You don't do homebrewing like this for money, this niche market is way too small. I'm glad there are still enough ColecoVision fans out there who buy Team Pixelboy titles, so even after a decade of doing what I do, I can still be confident that I will recoup my invested money.

 

 

 

You can also add all the time involved into manufacturing everything

- Assembling boxes, PCBs, cartridges etc..
- Preparing the shipping boxes, shipping labels etc.. 
- Go to the actual post office to get everything shipped
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Miner Jumpman said:

No, I don't owe an apology. When someone puts a game up for sale, they should be open to feedback. Are you in a cult?

 

Feedback... good!

 

Outright and blatant attacks... bad!

 

Am I a cult... are you a POS!

 

You seem to have all the answers, so why don’t you go into business as a Homebrewer?

 

Do you even know how much is paid directly to the programmers of all these Homebrew games? I do as I helped fund a number of them and this royalty inspires these programmers to continue to work on future CV projects instead of looking at other systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not opposed to this "discussion" though I'd plead for a mod to move it to it's own thread, and not on Mr. Cruise's game release thread.  I think the game looks mighty fine, and I'm the last person to compliment a Scramble anything (never a fan!!!).

 

The only thing I suppose to add, since I don't buy much homebrew, is that Atari was massive compared to Coleco, and therefore has far more aficionado's, some of which have the technical skills and knowledge to create new dev tools and hardware that has allowed Atari Age to more easily produce games at a lower cost.  Seems CV releases all sell out regardless the price. 

 

Whether it's more authentic to write a game that would have run on an original PCB/chip or SGM or whatever, I myself have little opinion.  We're decades out from the original lifespan of the systems, and it's really programmer's discretion at this point, and what they are capable of, or eager to write.  If I had one general CV homebrew criticism, it's that for whatever the reason the overwhelming offerings are ports.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow.  That was....interesting.  Never expected to see all that above.  Just thought I'd quickly chime in with my 5 cents worth at the risk of putting a target on my back.  I can't believe that Team Pixelboy has been criticised like this.  I'm sorry Miner Jumpman but you seem to have completely unrealistic expectations.  As an Atari and CV fan who enjoys homebrews for both, I really appreciate that there are people passionate enough to make these available to us.  I know they don't do it for the money.  It's purely for the love.  And as if Atari homebrews weren't niche enough, CV homebrews are even more niche.  Despite that, we're amazingly lucky to have Team Pixelboy, Opcode and Collectorvision all making great homebrews for the CV.  I've always found Pixelboy's prices to be very reasonable.  You get a boxed game for around the same price as a 2600 game from  AtariAge when you add the extra money for the box.  You can't compare a scalper's prices on ebay with AtariAge and blame Pixelboy for those prices.  He has no control over them.  If you want the new releases from TPB, it's all about timing.  Remember, he is a one man op and CV homebrews are super niche.  If you want some of his older games though, some are still available on the AtariAge store at very reasonable prices.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, insertclevernamehere said:

Wow.  That was....interesting.  Never expected to see all that above.  Just thought I'd quickly chime in with my 5 cents worth at the risk of putting a target on my back.  I can't believe that Team Pixelboy has been criticised like this.  I'm sorry Miner Jumpman but you seem to have completely unrealistic expectations.  As an Atari and CV fan who enjoys homebrews for both, I really appreciate that there are people passionate enough to make these available to us.  I know they don't do it for the money.  It's purely for the love.  And as if Atari homebrews weren't niche enough, CV homebrews are even more niche.  Despite that, we're amazingly lucky to have Team Pixelboy, Opcode and Collectorvision all making great homebrews for the CV.  I've always found Pixelboy's prices to be very reasonable.  You get a boxed game for around the same price as a 2600 game from  AtariAge when you add the extra money for the box.  You can't compare a scalper's prices on ebay with AtariAge and blame Pixelboy for those prices.  He has no control over them.  If you want the new releases from TPB, it's all about timing.  Remember, he is a one man op and CV homebrews are super niche.  If you want some of his older games though, some are still available on the AtariAge store at very reasonable prices.

Not to mention every game more than  a year old he an Collectorvision have rights to have the roms available for free or reasonably priced. That is incredibly generous of them. If you’re going to turn up your nose at that and demand endless carts then that’s just goofy. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...