What do you do with your SIDE2 ?

[+DrVenkman]

There is only one truth.. The further your "opinion" is from it, the further you are in error..

 

 

Are you sure we never worked together? LOL!

[JoSch]

There is only one truth.. The further your "opinion" is from it, the further you are in error..

 

Yep, I've installed quite a few Ultimate 1megs. I'm well aware of exactly what it is and does. Doesn't change my opinion of SIDE or MyIDE.

You obviously confuse opinion with truth.

As you yourself state: You have an oponion about Side/MyIde, not the truth.

Edited June 5, 2016 by JoSch

[MEtalGuy66]

Josch: No. You are the confused person.

 

Everything I stated regarding Side/MyIDE is the truth..

 

Perhaps my preference not to use them is what you are referring to as "opinion". I do own both of them.. In fact, several versions of both- and have been very well aware of exactly what both were and the particulars of using them, since they were first conceived and made public.

 

There is only one truth about the technical nature of these devices and what they are.. Please tell me what I stated above regarding these devices is not true.

 

Niether one is a standalone PBI device.. Niether one has a full 16bit implementation of IDE.. Both rely on "customization" of the OS, SDX based "drivers" loaded, (or in case of the side/U1meg "PBI" ass-rig, an entire tape-worm-like rig of ribbon cables and PCBs added to the inside of the machine it's being used with) to even work.

 

 

These are all facts.. Truth.. Not Oppinion.. My Oppinion is that people should not waste their money on hermaphrodite, non-standard devices when better options are available.. Yes, that is my opinion.. But the Truth of what a SIDE/2 or MyIDE/2 is in relation to a real PBI connected device that employs a more robust implementation of IDE.. That is not Oppinion.. It's plain truth..

Edited June 5, 2016 by MEtalGuy66

[JoSch]

So "half-assed" is the technical truth?

If so, I really wish you luck by spreading YOUR truth by insults.

[Marius]

@metalguy66

 

No you are wrong and you absolutely confuse fact and opinion.

 

Where you go wrong is this: your truth is true pbi is obviously the ONLY valid path to follow.

 

And that is where you go wrong.

 

It's all about I/O and storage in general, and the way the device communicates with the storage media. That is the only thing that counts when you design a system from scratch -> how to get your volatile RAM into a NON-volatile carrier. That is all.

 

You forget this eternal and basic I/O and storage law.

 

MyIDE2 and SIDE2 are NOT claiming they are PBI devices (but in your OPINION, the fact that they are NON-PBI, means that they are half-assed?)

 

Besides the doubtful choice of words, you prove here you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about.

 

My advice: if you don't have to add anything constructive: stay away from topics, you only can throw mud about.

[Marius]

For a few rare exceptions I have all the thinkable add ons for a8. I use or have used them all quite a lot. I have a few favorites, but I must say I like them all.

 

* 5 BlackBoxes

* 12 MyIDE 2

* 2 SIDE2

* 8 IDE+ 2.0

* 1 Sdrive Nuxx

* 10 U1MB

* 6 Sio2SD

* 5 MyIDE 1

* 10 Abbuc-Raf Sio2USB

* 2 Sio2IDE 3.3a

 

Seriously: all these devices have pros and cons, and none of these devices is the Utlimate device. That's the funny conclusion here: the ultimate device does not exist (yet).

 

At the moment I use IDE+ the most of all, but...

 

MyIDE2 has features that I would love to see on IDE+

Side2 (+U1MB) has features I would love to see on IDE+

BlackBox has features I would love to see on IDE+

 

And speaking of comparison. One of my most appreciated Sio2 devices is the Sio2IDE 3.3a. Yes it is obsolete, and yes it has some serious major downsides, but it is one of the easiest devices to swap D1: and D2: on a Sio2 device.

 

It is what one needs for use!

 

Metalguy6: when someone tells you: I would like to buy a bike... what are people here thinking of a bike?

Your answer would be: don't get a half-assed transportation device... get yourself a car... no... get yourself a rocket.

 

Those two devices are not comparable, and the answer is completely useless.

 

The topic starter asks: what do you do with your Side2?

[flashjazzcat]

IDE Plus is a REAL PBI mass storage device that conforms to the Atari PBI standard, works with any standard XL/XE OS that supports PBI without the need for an SDX based "driver" loaded like SIDE and MYIDE...

At what point did the SDX driver (about which you were once enthusiastically complementary) warrant derisive double quotes? In what way is the driver not a driver, or do the quote marks denote something else?

 

U1MB used with SIDE2 is every bit as much a "real" PBI mass storage device and does not require the use of any soft driver whatsoever. For those who have perhaps installed U1MB already, the sole disadvantages I can see when compared to IDE Plus (lack or portability and blocked cart port) may not matter to the end user or might (in the case of the cart port) be overcome with a cart extender. In what way, with regards to software functionality and OS integration, does the U1MB/SIDE solution become "half assed", in spite of the aforementioned physical differences?

 

1200XLs aside for the moment, let's not forget the extra cart signals required for proper operation of external cartridges on the IDE Plus (signals not present on the PBI connector), which have in the past called for solutions such as tapping said signals off the XL's top cartridge port via an extra ribbon cable. This is no fault of the IDE Plus itself, of course, but that obstruction might block the cart port, unless you take the wires out of the back of the PBI connector, which would require internal soldering, or at least opening up the machine to install some header pins. Or perhaps the user doesn't care about external carts, in which case the matter of cart slots blocked by SIDE is irrelevant anyway.

 

IDE Plus is a full 16-bit IDE interface, unlike SIDE and MyIDE which use the absolute crappiest mode of communication that a CF card can possibly be ass-wired up to.

That would be 8-bit PIO mode, which is every bit as reliable and efficient as a full 16-bit data register for an 8-bit Atari's purposes. Unless there's some discrepancy once we start using CPU accelerators (which many purists reject out of hand anyway)? SIDE without U1MB (i.e. used with the SDX "driver") would have the performance advantage out of the box there, then, since the RAM-based driver will run faster than the throttled PBI ROM. Or perhaps 8-bit PIO mode has some other unspecified shortcoming which I have somehow never encountered in five years of developing drivers for these devices? Or is 8-bit PIO ultimately seen as an obstacle to full DMA transfers at 20MHz using Rapidus? Does the user care about that?

You also have to hack it to get the PBI which is the correct and best solution for local bused hardware expansions such as fast mass storage devices. Yes, there ARE other "lesser alternatives" (maybe that's a nicer term than "half-assed").. But, that is what they are.. Just like a modem that connects through the joystick port will never be as good as one that connects through a proper RS232 interface.. The XEP80 will never be as good as a local-bussed 80 column display adapter.. Etc. etc..

Again I really want to know in pragmatic terms why - once the user has decided to convert his 1200XL to standard XL spec, installed U1MB, and plugged in a SIDE cart - why the resulting HDD solution is "less" good than a device attached to a PBI connector on the back of the machine. It can only be down the blocked cart port or lack of portability of the PBI BIOS, can it not? But if these factors happen not to matter to the user, what kind of rich experience is he denying himself by opting for the U1MB/SIDE solution?

 

Since most of us love 1200XLs so much and are aware that there are easier and less destructive methods of getting them up to spec than ass-rigging 130XE motherboards into them (motherboards which we can all empirically experience as of lesser quality than the original 1200XL motherboard), let's look at four HDD solutions for this machine:

 

1. U1MB/SIDE:

 

 

* Fully OS compliant PBI solution, requiring no PBI port modification. All required signals present on the cart port for proper operation. Requires U1MB installation, single OS ROM mod, but SDX users who just want to use a HDD with DOS can use any old RAM upgrade, plug in the cart, and go.

 

2. IDE Plus with 1200XL cart port PBI extender (produced by Ken and very fine and useful it is too):

 

 

* Fully OS compliant PBI solution, requiring no U1MB or PBI port modification, but requiring extra signals (not shown) to be taken from the mainboard via soldered wires and connected to the 10 pin header on the PBI extender. Three available cart ports! IDE Plus sticks up in the air.

 

3. IDE Plus with 1200XL cart port extender and ribbon cable:

 

 

* Similar to above, but the preferred solution for non-vertical HDD adapter fans.

 

4. IDE Plus with PBI-equipped 1200XL

 

 

* Still lacks extra signals required for proper SDX pass-thru cart operation, requires very extensive modification of motherboard and case, and sits on the desk/case somewhere. 1200XL cart port free.

Edited June 5, 2016 by flashjazzcat

[xxl]

1200XL with PBI solution

 

 

and

 

 

 

Find three differences

[MEtalGuy66]

Oh god I give up. You fuckers are arguing points that aren't counter or complimentary to anything Ive said and I refuse to get derailed far enough to comment on any of it..

 

Anyone who read far enough to benefit from my "oppinions" has long given up at this point..

[xxl]

easy... any atari 8bit with mods u1mb,rapidus and so looks to me the same

[Marius]

Oh god I give up. You fuckers are arguing points that aren't counter or complimentary to anything Ive said and I refuse to get derailed far enough to comment on any of it..

 

So summary:

You can flush Side2 and MyIDE2 through the toilet with all kind of doubtful qualifications, stating that you are expressing facts.

 

But as soon people stand up and give their point of view, you give up?

 

Talking of half-assed pfff.

 

For most people it is not important HOW something works, but that it DOES work. Side2, MyIDE2, IDE+ 2.0 ... they all do a fabulous job for the end user, and in my opinion (yes opinion) it is a matter of taste what one decides to use.

 

Sure... the IDE+ does most of it's tasks best on a stock atari, just like the blackbox. But still.... swapping partitions goes way much better on MyIDE -even on stock atari-.

 

So save us further theoretical bashing of devices in the future. It's of zero use.

Edited June 6, 2016 by ProWizard

[Neo-Rio]

Can someone tell me why a cartridge can't be used to expand the available memory of an Atari, and why it has to be modded internally?

I'm sure there's some technical reason....

[flashjazzcat]

Can someone tell me why a cartridge can't be used to expand the available memory of an Atari, and why it has to be modded internally?

I'm sure there's some technical reason....

 

You can certainly expand the memory of the Atari using a cartridge, but not as a traditional PORTB RAM expansion occupying $4000-$7FFF. The address space of the cartridge is limited to $8000-$BFFF and $D500-$D5FF, so while it's quite reasonable to bank RAM in any of these areas (MYIDE2 does exactly this), there can be issues with the screen display (which usually occupies the same space as the cart banks) and it will never behave like an internal or ECI/PBI RAM expansion.

[+Larry]

Here is some info on the MegaMax (Sram) cart that I bought some years ago, so you can see some more about it. But as Jon says, it is definitely not compatible with the normal Atari expanded memory scheme.

 

http://www.mega-hz.de/Angebote/MEGAMAX/en/MegaMAX%20Cart%20en%20V1.htm

 

-Larry

[+Ripdubski]

Seems to me that both options have a "place". Depends on your needs. Ultimately, you may end up with both to serve different needs. Which is more important to start with? Go that route.

 

I don't have SIDE2, but have MyIDEII and 10502PC. I use both. Which do I use more? Both about the same amount. For general gaming, MyIDEII. For other stuff and peripheral emulation, the 10502PC.

[+Larry]

Thanks to the info from Jon, I'm using my Side2 as a stand-alone SDX cartridge. Much better than having the poor thing set in my desk drawer where it's been for the past couple of years. I'm sure it was feeling sorely neglected! Now at least has part time employment.

-Larry

[Neo-Rio]

Is it possible to create and mount ATRs on the SIDE2 with U1MB?

[flashjazzcat]

Yes it is, although you currently have to create them on the PC (there's no Atari tool to write blank ATRs to the FAT).

[Neo-Rio]

Yes it is, although you currently have to create them on the PC (there's no Atari tool to write blank ATRs to the FAT).

How hard would it be?

I was just thinking that given the U1MB can mount ATRs from the SIDE2's FAT, surely it could write a fully provisioned blank ATR file for use on it as well?

Would it be able to write just a bunch of zeros of a specified length? (to simulate different disk types)

 

Then the user could just format the file with whatever DOS they want

Edited June 9, 2016 by Neo-Rio

[flashjazzcat]

Well, of course the user may format an ATR using current methods, but a tool to write a blank ATR in situ would be possible. Such a thing will possibly be a by-product of the R/W FAT driver I'm writing for the GUI (currently there's a lot of code and drivers which read FAT, but nothing which writes to it). Not such a big stretch: just a question of writing the library.

[Neo-Rio]

I haven't been paying attention, but I suppose since there are no FAT writes, then ATRs are only mounted "read-only" at the moment.

Hmm. Probably a nice safety feature, but one that would be nice to turn off if needed.

Say for example if I wanted to make an ATR file on the SIDE2 and then save files to it. Then export the ATR to PC later, for example.

[flashjazzcat]

I haven't been paying attention, but I suppose since there are no FAT writes, then ATRs are only mounted "read-only" at the moment.

Hmm. Probably a nice safety feature, but one that would be nice to turn off if needed.

Say for example if I wanted to make an ATR file on the SIDE2 and then save files to it. Then export the ATR to PC later, for example.

I didn't express myself very well there. The PBI BIOS is R/W, and therefore so are the ATRs, but there's currently no tool to create new files in a FAT volume. But you can drop an ATR into a FAT volume using your card reader, write a file system to it, write files to it, then copy it back to the PC.

[Stormtrooper of Death]

Does anybody watch movies on their SIDE2 (with or without U1mb upgrade) ? The video of TRON with myIde. Example can be found here on youtube:

 

for me, as an old assembly programmer for Atari 8bit, i guess it should not be difficult to implement this on the SIDE2 (without U1mb) to create a game that uses videoparts.

 

And... are there any audio lovers, who use the mass-storage of the SIDE2 for audio samples ?

[flashjazzcat]

Does anybody watch movies on their SIDE2 (with or without U1mb upgrade) ?

Here's the video player Phaeron wrote a while back for SIDE, running on a SIDE2 cart.

 

[Neo-Rio]

Where to download the player?