doubledown Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 Its been quite a while since I looked at the Mini ColecoVision stuff, but if memory serves, for the first flat-top one (in my avatar) it was over $200 my cost in parts and hardware which maybe included the donor console. I wanna say the case was $50 or $55, the Power/Reset buttons were between $60 and $80 for the set depending on single or dual illuminated, the A/V & S-Video jacks were something like $7 or more each. Then a bunch of little stuff like heat sinks, new ICs as needed, DB-9 controller ports, the media for the console "stickers", then probably no less than 10-12 hours for all of the refurbishing, modding, and assembly. In the instance of the one I did for Ax, we also added 2 color dyeing of the case and the lighted artwork marquee. So then add on top of that a built in SGM ($100) as well as the F18A ($80) for VGA plus possibly the addition of an HDMI converter, then add an internal power supply as some had previously requested, and you'd probably be into a $700 - $800 console. Don't get me wrong its fine with me, but I've seen those that would complain about an A/V modded/refurbished standard console at $150, let alone any console no matter how customized for $800. That is all assuming of course the parts I've previously used are still available and haven't severely increased in price, or I would need to spend a bunch of time re-sourcing things. Anybody willing to pay for said $800 console?!? Not sure how many people have arcade cabinets, but I know a few do. Perhaps Jamma Colecovision with external keypads? That's not actually a bad idea! Probably the biggest problem is the vertical monitor orientation of most older cabinets. S-video mods. I'm not kidding! What's the problem, no one is doing S-Video mods anymore? Out of curiosity, why the preference to S-Video versus Component, VGA, XGA, DVI, or HDMI with modern displays? Looking to run yours on an older CRT tv? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValkerieSilk Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Yes, I would ... and definitely the HDMI converter, my new Lenovo Tab has HDMI 'In' http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/yoga/yoga-home/yoga-home-900/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 What's the problem, no one is doing S-Video mods anymore? Not really, at least not around here. Out of curiosity, why the preference to S-Video versus Component, VGA, XGA, DVI, or HDMI with modern displays? Looking to run yours on an older CRT tv? I do still have a tube TV with a lot of consoles attached, including my ColecoVision, but I also want an S-video mod for my ongoing web project. My goal has been to make screencaps that represent what each console's native hardware is best capable of. My understanding is the ColecoVision internally generates the signals necessary for S-video, so that's what I'm striving for. Some may say composite is good enough, but my eyes and my video capture card beg to differ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLic0ne t0aD Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Big fan of your work. New themed controllers are always cool. S-Video would be a good one to try, I'd be in for that. Of course i'd love a mini CV at some point, a kit would be awesome. I already have NKK switches and internal PS ready to go for another CV, just haven't had time to mess with mods lately though. Good to see you back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 Not really, at least not around here. I do still have a tube TV with a lot of consoles attached, including my ColecoVision, but I also want an S-video mod for my ongoing web project. My goal has been to make screencaps that represent what each console's native hardware is best capable of. My understanding is the ColecoVision internally generates the signals necessary for S-video, so that's what I'm striving for. Some may say composite is good enough, but my eyes and my video capture card beg to differ! Well technically Component video is the best offered by the CV with the original TMS9928 VDP. As memory serves there were 2 ways to do the the S-Video mod, the "best picture" version would negate the use of the Expansion Module #1, I'm not sure if it would affect the SGM or not as I don't have one, but I don't believe so. Big fan of your work. New themed controllers are always cool. S-Video would be a good one to try, I'd be in for that. Of course i'd love a mini CV at some point, a kit would be awesome. I already have NKK switches and internal PS ready to go for another CV, just haven't had time to mess with mods lately though. Good to see you back. I don't think I would offer the Mini CV as a kit. As a perfectionist and being too controlling of my work, I wouldn't want people possibly selling "my work" that isn't actually "my work". Additionally the amount of work and re-wiring necessary doesn't exactly make the CV PCB a simple screw in install in the Mini case. As a kit if you were supplying your own CV PCB, you would have to remove the existing controller ports, On/Off & Reset switches, install any video circuitry and wire in the new ports and switches to assemble it, not just a simple transplant. Anybody who has all that capability can probably make their own Mini CV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Yep. I have most of the parts already to do a mini cv but have to finish other things first before working on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 S-video mods. I'm not kidding! The mod looks simple . I have to see what DD mentioned above on the expansion model. SGM would not be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I'd be in for S-Video since I have a group of old consoles with S-video, the CV is the only one that doesn't have it and it kind of stinks hooking that up seperately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Well technically Component video is the best offered by the CV with the original TMS9928 VDP. Ah, I did not know that. That potentially complicates things given my current video capture set-up does not support component. Likely I would find S-video good enough anyway, at least for the web project. I certainly wouldn't mind a component bump for playing, since my CRT does have component inputs. Unfortunately even component services seem to be hard to come by. As memory serves there were 2 ways to do the the S-Video mod, the "best picture" version would negate the use of the Expansion Module #1, I'm not sure if it would affect the SGM or not as I don't have one, but I don't believe so. That's because it would disable the expansion port's video input line, correct? I don't think the SGM relies on that. I wouldn't mind the sacrifice. I do have an Expansion Module #1, but I can always plug it into an unmodded Coleco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+grips03 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Yep. I have most of the parts already to do a mini cv but have to finish other things first before working on this. Are you using Pactec case? I'll make new thread to discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) The video for the Atari Expansion Module does not use the VDP in the ColecoVision as it has its own, which is sent back to the RF box for video output. For a better video signal you'd be tapping way before the box, which means no Atari games on the upgraded signal without a lesser quality signal for both, 2 sets of connections one for the Coleco and one for the Module, or use the RF for the Module...or better off an actual 2600 or better still, a 7800. Well good news DoubleDown fans...I found the vault, and got it open! Since being back on here the last few days I was looking on my PC for my old "modding days" archives. Things like all of my posted pics (which have disappeared off of the image hosting site I use to use, hence none of their links working in old posts here anymore), all of the custom artwork I made for console stickers, cartridge labels, manuals and the likes, and all my documents I used when modding things like schematics, parts lists, and customer lists. I know I've got a "paper" binder around with a bunch of tech info as well, but most of it I digitzed. So I know I made a "backup" to a NAS drive years back when I upgraded PCs and I had a folder named Coleco, but that only had original manual and cartridge scans, some ROMs from when I was printing and/or designing manuals for Collectorvision and a few other things. But I knew I had my "vintage" PC which I use to have in my workshop as a closer proximity PC than my main one. I used it for making floppy disks for ADAM and Atari 8-bit computers (it has 4 floppy drives and runs W98se with DOS 6.22), and I had my EPROM programmer connected to it, so I figured it was worth a shot. I looked on that today and found some more stuff, but still couldn't find stuff with my pictures, or the info for the custom controllers and mini CVs I made. So I had one last chance with my older main PC previous to my current semi-main PC and of course it was password protected...from years ago when I had a roommate. Fortunately the windows password hint that I entered jogged my memory and blammo...into the vault! Started going through folders and files and looks like everything is there, intact, including my custom manuals for the Mini CVs as well as a bunch of pics of the first Mini and Ax's Mini, and the manuals for the Pac-Man and Donkey Kong themed controllers and looks like everything else. So hooray the DoubleDown legacy apparently still exists. Additional good news is that I had a brainstorm today at work for a new ColecoVision controller that I'm super excited about and probably will be happening here hopefully in the near future. The best part is that the donor controller is made by a high quality peripheral company and currently sustainable in the market. Really don't know how soon I'll get to this, but knowing me it won't be too awful long. I'm out of town this weekend, but maybe after I get back, I re-archive all my old stuff and either get a photo album started here or start a post detailing all of the stuff I did over the years so that it doesn't all get lost again. Edited June 10, 2016 by doubledown 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 The video for the Atari Expansion Module does not use the VDP in the ColecoVision as it has its own, which is sent back to the RF box for video output. For a better video signal you'd be tapping way before the box, which means no Atari games on the upgraded signal without a lesser quality signal for both, 2 sets of connections one for the Coleco and one for the Module, or use the RF for the Module...or better off an actual 2600 or better still, a 7800. Understood, and thanks for the explanation. I have modded 2600 and 7800 consoles already, so "losing" the Expansion Module on a modded ColecoVision would not really be a loss at all. Back in the day I bought a set of your Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man customized controllers controllers as well. I'm still quite happy to have them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValkerieSilk Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 SA...WEEEEET! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Good news indeed DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 By any chance do you have information on the component video mods you used to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 By any chance do you have information on the component video mods you used to do?What about the Component Video Mod board that 5-11under made... isn't that one still available thru him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdn2a Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Guys, For anyone that wants to make an analog component signal for the Coleco, it's super easy.. assuming '28 VDP Pin 38 Red Pin 36 Green Pin 35 Blue Put 100ohm resistor in series, adjust the blue so the screens background is black. If you find a cheap component to HDMI adapter let me know since most seem to be digital. YPbPr VS YCbCr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Guys, For anyone that wants to make an analog component signal for the Coleco, it's super easy.. assuming '28 VDP Pin 38 Red Pin 36 Green Pin 35 Blue Put 100ohm resistor in series, adjust the blue so the screens background is black. If you find a cheap component to HDMI adapter let me know since most seem to be digital. YPbPr VS YCbCr. You'll lose most of the yellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdn2a Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) http://www.labguysworld.com/TinyTriniscope_001.htm www.labguysworld.com/YUV2RGB_Matrix.htmI used the formulas from here. Tested on sony crt, didnt loose yellow. *edit, added 2nd url, you get redirected, but he has link mid page with schematics and formulas, also has waveforms for scope work* Edited June 13, 2016 by cdn2a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 http://www.labguysworld.com/TinyTriniscope_001.htm www.labguysworld.com/YUV2RGB_Matrix.htm I used the formulas from here. Tested on sony crt, didnt loose yellow. *edit, added 2nd url, you get redirected, but he has link mid page with schematics and formulas, also has waveforms for scope work* I've seen that page. It's a good and simple reference. Maybe if I tried with proper clamping I wouldn't need to subtract more Y from the CV's B-Y signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdn2a Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 So full disclosure, My TV is a Sony with analog YPbPr inputs, it might clean up the signal before displaying. I did try this on another members LCD TV, and the black was a little blue and I had to adjust it. So it's not universal values on the resistors/pots. Hence why I wanted a component to HDMI module, that way it should have a universal output for any TV. I did email him and asked some technical questions, and yes this does relate to clamping and DC voltage being passed on, on the AC signal. Easiest / cheapest is resistors vs Op amp solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've seen the same difference between TVs. My 42" Westinghouse shows black, but my cheap YPbPr to VGA converter is somewhat blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I did a simple mod on my CV (basically some pull down resistors on the VDP pins which is what's described in the TMS9928 datasheet) and I had some inconsistent results as well; on my PVM it's perfect but on everything else black comes out as a dark blue. I haven't tried it on my new XRGB-3 yet but it's supposed to display properly on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 good to see you dude have been out of the loop myself health is very poor but kids are older they are enjoying my stuff i enjoy watching them use it the mini needs some upgrades would be nice to have sgm inside and better video options 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) We hope your health improves good sir. And we sure do miss those "box of crap(s)". Edited June 17, 2016 by phattyboombatty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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