Flash/Multi basic question

[nd2003grad]

I'm a console guy, but I'm about to get a C64. My question is this: does C64 require a different sd or multi option for carts, tapes, and disks? Or, is one unit able to handle everything? This is so much more complicated than, say, a harmony cart...

[brain]

It is more complicated, because the C64 is more complicated. Harmony emulates a cartridge, as does EasyFlash 3. There is no disk drive or tape drive for the 2600, so no need to emulate.

 

However, the 1541 Ultimate should do what you want. It emulates the 1541, EasyFlash, and tape. So, it should handle all three types of storage.

 

Jim

[nd2003grad]

How about those little SD 1541 drives from Poland? http://www.ebay.com/itm/C64c-Style-SD2IEC-Commodore-1541-Disk-Drive-Emulator-SD-Card-Reader-C64-C128-VIC-/330917399751

 

1541 Ultimate is pretty expensive, but I am guessing deservedly so.

[7800fan]

SD2IEC and MMC2IEC style are much cheaper and works OK for loading disk images but it does not have true 1541 drive emulation, some games with custom fast loader or anti-piracy check will fail. You could use this to transfer disk image to a real disk and then use a real 1541 drive.

 

Ultimate 1541 and UK1541 both offers true emulation but they start well north of $100 new when they are available. If you want best of everything, there's also Chameleon but those costs a few hundred dollars.

 

I have a SD2IEC Evo coming in and I plan to use a VFD rather than LCD panel for cool retro look (plus LCD panel of 1980s were mostly tiny digital watch) and it will be mostly used for transferring disk images. Lucky I had the foresight to pick up a few new boxed 5.25" floppy disks (box of 10 for a dollar each) when one of the local Radio Shack closed about 20 years ago, those last a while. Too bad the original disk label didn't last, the glue dried out and won't stick even to the original label sheet so I have to get new labels someday.

[TMR]

Ultimate 1541 and UK1541 both offers true emulation but they start well north of $100 new when they are available. If you want best of everything, there's also Chameleon but those costs a few hundred dollars.

It's worth pointing out that at least the 1541 Ultimate 2 and Turbo Chameleon are much more than merely disk drive emulators (i've never used a UK1541 myself), offering features like large RAM expansion, cartridge emulation and, in the case of the TC, a slew of other features including processor accelleration and VGA out. You get what you pay for, as the saying goes.

[carlsson]

There is some overlap though:

 

* Most tape images you'll find for the C64 are in the T64 format, which pretty much is a single filed program wrapped with a tape-like header. Those can effectively be extracted to PRG files, put on a D64 image and load on a SD2IEC unit.

 

* Only a small amount of tape files are TAP, which are digital representations of an actual tape. Those would need to be converted to sound and saved to a tape, or loaded through e.g. the Ultimate.

 

* The EasyFlash has a built-in loader that lets you load single filed PRG files from cartridge, those you normally would load from a SD2IEC or better. It would also swallow various CRT files.

 

I don't know if there are PRG files which consist of CRT file loaders, so you could load just about any CRT file from a SD2IEC. The majority of CRT's though exist as PRG files too, at least the smaller ones.

[nd2003grad]

OK, so I'm trying to get all of this straight I think:

 

1. Easy Flash ONLY does carts?

 

2. SD2IEC can do only floppies?

 

3. The more expensive options can do all.

 

The unit I purchased comes with both a floppy and a cassette drive. I'm just trying to figure out the cheapest way to run as many games/programs as possible. I'm not opposed to using the original format, and I think I'm getting a significant amount of floppies with programs I won't want.

 

Were most of the games carts or discs, and were they often available in both formats? I'm lost on it! I think I have tape covered though, heck I'll record a real one if I need to (I have like 100 blanks)

[nd2003grad]

I guess in the alternative, I know it can be tricky to get images from PC to C64...but I'm open to that as well.

[iKarith]

My understanding is that just about any cart can be turned into something that loads from floppy. I think that's even more true of cassettes. My understanding might be wrong, but that's what it is.

[carlsson]

Pretty much, yes.

 

The Easy Flash will allow you to flash the following types of files:

 

8-16K CRT images, as many as you can fit on the cartridge

32-512K CRT image, maximum one per cartridge

PRG files (single filed programs extracted from a tape or disk), as many as you can fit

 

The PRG files will be loaded using a built-in fastloader, but they won't start instantly like the CRT files do.

 

The SD2IEC will mount and load the following types of files:

 

D64 images that contain single filed programs or multi loading programs using either the default Kernal loader, or one of the few fastloaders recognized by the device

PRG files directly off the SD card, see above

 

The SD2IEC supports a number of fast loading cartridges, but not every single one you could think of. Among some of the more popular ones (from a mostly European biased viewpoint, as I understand the selection of utility cartridges varies A LOT between Europe and North America), it should support Epyx FastLoad, The Final Cartridge III and, if you store a 1581 ROM dump onto the SD card and issue a specific command, also the Action Replay Mk 5-6 etc.

 

What it lacks is complete emulation of the CPU, ROM, RAM, CIA chips in the 1541 drive so software that through the IEC cable reprograms the 2K RAM inside the drive for own fastloader routines, won't work unless the SD2IEC can detect a common one and simulate its behavior. Usually this applies to D64 dumps of original games and of course various multi-loading demos, if you would like to run those.

[nd2003grad]

Pretty much, yes.

 

The Easy Flash will allow you to flash the following types of files:

 

8-16K CRT images, as many as you can fit on the cartridge

32-512K CRT image, maximum one per cartridge

PRG files (single filed programs extracted from a tape or disk), as many as you can fit

 

The PRG files will be loaded using a built-in fastloader, but they won't start instantly like the CRT files do.

 

The SD2IEC will mount and load the following types of files:

 

D64 images that contain single filed programs or multi loading programs using either the default Kernal loader, or one of the few fastloaders recognized by the device

PRG files directly off the SD card, see above

 

The SD2IEC supports a number of fast loading cartridges, but not every single one you could think of. Among some of the more popular ones (from a mostly European biased viewpoint, as I understand the selection of utility cartridges varies A LOT between Europe and North America), it should support Epyx FastLoad, The Final Cartridge III and, if you store a 1581 ROM dump onto the SD card and issue a specific command, also the Action Replay Mk 5-6 etc.

 

What it lacks is complete emulation of the CPU, ROM, RAM, CIA chips in the 1541 drive so software that through the IEC cable reprograms the 2K RAM inside the drive for own fastloader routines, won't work unless the SD2IEC can detect a common one and simulate its behavior. Usually this applies to D64 dumps of original games and of course various multi-loading demos, if you would like to run those.

Carlsson, which would you recommend for the greater breadth of gaming "fun" and compat.? I'm still learning these extensions and how they can be converted. I do have a physical drive and quite a few floppies, and I don't mind running from them...but I'm not sure if there is a way to transfer info from cart and disk and vice versa through the C64...

[carlsson]

If you want to invest in small portions, your first buy should be a SD2IEC type device, since you're not opposed to using floppy disks every now and then. The majority of games available as CRT also exist as PRG.

 

Possibly the UK1541 is a good trade-off between price and functionality for a casual user, but as noted both that one and the 1541Ultimate II tend to be sold out.

 

Please note that in order to reflash an EasyFlash, you either need a secondary storage device on the C64 that can hold composite CRT images of 1 MB each (e.g. a memory card device like a SD2IEC, 1541Ultimate etc, but I suppose it might work with an IDE64 hard drive device or similar too) or that you need to be able to pull the flash chip from the cartridge and use an EPROM programmer on the PC side. Without it, you'd be stuck with whatever pre-programmed content the EasyFlash might have.

 

Edit: The next batch of UK1541 is planned for Autumn 2016, according to the Facebook page, but I haven't checked if he has a pre-order list to clear out first.

Edited June 27, 2016 by carlsson

[7800fan]

I thought most SD2IEC also supported d71 and d81 as well?

[carlsson]

I never tried those formats, but I'm sure you are right. The same limitations w.r.t. ability to reprogram the drive still would apply though, although I'm not sure how many programs implement a custom fastloader on the 1581. Apparently the Action Replay does have its own fastloader though, as it can be made to work on the SD2IEC. The reason for this by the way, is that the algorithm for the AR's 1581 fastloader is more straightforward than the one for its 1541 fastloader, so the latter would be more hairy to simulate.

[nd2003grad]

I think you guys got me to my answer. Turned it on for the first time today...ready to rock. Thanks!