phoenixdownita Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Kind of fixed it for you Looking forward to this as much as anyone here!Quick question, are there plans to have it function as a Memory Track cart as well? baby steps .... baby steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Quick question, are there plans to have it function as a Memory Track cart as well? Yep, in conjunction with the CD emulation. Edited February 26, 2017 by SainT 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Yep, in conjunction with the CD emulation. You had me at conjunction....Sniff We all are super excited to say the least 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Yep, in conjunction with the CD emulation. I hope it would work as MemTrack even without "conjuction", meaning if I want to use a real JagCD I'd like to think the MemTrack functionality of your SD flash-cart solution would just work or is it not possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 I hope it would work as MemTrack even without "conjuction", meaning if I want to use a real JagCD I'd like to think the MemTrack functionality of your SD flash-cart solution would just work or is it not possible? Yep, certainly could do. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I am concerned about compatibility. I know other SD card readers have compatibility issues with certain ROM images. An example is Everdrive 64 for the N64. Not all games are compatible and a few had to have firmware patches in order to run. Will you be releasing a compatibility list soon? If you have achieved 100% compatibility with all commercial ROMS thats great too. But looking at it from a development point of view I wonder how this may affect works in progress being tested on hardware? I realize it could be a foolish question asking if compatibility is going to be 100% (theres really no way to know that right now) But I am interested in a possible compatibility list for all commercial released games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagosaurus Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I am concerned about compatibility. I know other SD card readers have compatibility issues with certain ROM images. An example is Everdrive 64 for the N64. Not all games are compatible and a few had to have firmware patches in order to run. Will you be releasing a compatibility list soon? If you have achieved 100% compatibility with all commercial ROMS thats great too. But looking at it from a development point of view I wonder how this may affect works in progress being tested on hardware? I realize it could be a foolish question asking if compatibility is going to be 100% (theres really no way to know that right now) But I am interested in a possible compatibility list for all commercial released games. Paraphrasing here... He mentioned somewhere pages ago that the #1 is retail game compatibility at this point. With a library of 49 retail cart games, testing won't be as rigorous as a system such as the NES, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 With a library of 49 retail cart games, testing won't be as rigorous as a system such as the NES, etc. Actually, with only 49 to test, you'd think it would be far more rigorous to get 100%. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagosaurus Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Actually, with only 49 to test, you'd think it would be far more rigorous to get 100%. I was referring to less quantity and the actual testing process (running 49 ROMS vs ~800). True, the denominator of the equation is smaller, so each game incompatible lowers the compatibility percent by roughly 2%. Only 4 problem games would put you at 91.8% compatible. While most folks will complain, I'd buy one at 80% compatible. Edits: mobile typos Edited February 26, 2017 by Jagosaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 At the same time only 49 games may not exercise/expose all possible manner of bus access, timing issues etc...etc... hence relegating potential issues to SW that has yet to be written ..... oh ..... nevermind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I am concerned about compatibility. I know other SD card readers have compatibility issues with certain ROM images. An example is Everdrive 64 for the N64. Not all games are compatible and a few had to have firmware patches in order to run. Apples and oranges when comparing the N64 and Jag in terms of carts. For starters N64 games could use a couple different types of memory for saving, which was a bit of an issue. The Jag only used the onboard EEPROM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) I don't know the architecture of SainT's cartridge, but if it is SRAM or Flash based (i.e. the memory is accessed directly by the Jaguar, without going through a memory controller), compatibility with cartridge games is likely to be almost 100%: as far as I know, the only games that don't work on the Skunkboard are those that are blacklisted, and/or which actively detect they're not running from a "standard" cartridge and refuse to run. Compared to other consoles, the Jaguar is pretty friendly to special carts developers, since there are no mappers to emulate, and the hardware even makes different bus widths transparent. JagCD emulation is another matter, it's a lot more work with plenty of potential incompatibilities (even if the fact most games rely on a BIOS instead of accessing the hardware directly helps). Edited February 27, 2017 by Zerosquare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Yeah, the Jag is very simple hardware wise for the cartridge. No additional hardware on any carts apart from the EEPROM, which has a few different possibilities (but only like 2-3), so I dont really see any problems. The CD emulation is indeed a different thing. But I'm going to be handling the data streaming via I2S, as the actual CD hardware does, and the rest is a BIOS change. So this should produce good compatibility. As it was enforced to use the CD BIOS and not write directly, it should work well... I will obviously know more when I actually get the first hardware produced. I'm just finishing up the NeoGeo Pocket cartridge, then I'm going to be concentrating on the Jag next. Edited October 25, 2019 by SainT 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjameslv Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I can't speak for everybody else but i really appreciate your hard work and am very excited to see this brought into existence!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqark Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Excuse me SainT if you've already mentioned it somewhere here and I just haven't seen it, but if you haven't - then I'm sure plenty of people will be interested in the fact that you've opened up a pre-orders interest register on out website for your NEO-GEO Pocket Flash Card. http://www.retrohq.co.uk/neogeo-pocket-pre-order If you didn't want a flood of interest - Opps! Sorry... I only saw this because I'm subscribing to the progress update videos on Youtube - well done - bloody good work! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kublai Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I have the old Bung Fashlinker and hoping to update to this one. I have a question: 1. What is the flash write cycle on this flash chip, I see some everdrive products you can only flash it like 100,000 times before the flash chip dies or stop working? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 I have the old Bung Fashlinker and hoping to update to this one. I have a question: 1. What is the flash write cycle on this flash chip, I see some everdrive products you can only flash it like 100,000 times before the flash chip dies or stop working? Thanks. The flash write cycle limit on most FLASH chips is about 100,000 times, yep. The chip I'm using says 100,000 erase cycles and typical 20 years data retention. These figures will be conservative. Once a game is installed, however, it can be played as many times as you like. And as there is 15mb of space for writing games, it means you're unlikely to be erasing and re-installing particularly frequently. Given the time taken to flash a game, realistically it means you'd have to be erasing and re-writing games constantly for about 3 years for the cycle limit to be reached. Obviously some sectors, like the ones used for save game data, will get used more frequently. But again, 100,000 times is massive. If a games saves once every 5 minutes, say, you'd be talking something like playing a game without a break solidly for about a year given saving every 5 minutes. It really don't see it as an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kublai Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 That is very good to know so I'm hoping this will be released soon as I'm itchy to get my hands on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omf Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 The flash write cycle limit on most FLASH chips is about 100,000 times, yep. The chip I'm using says 100,000 erase cycles and typical 20 years data retention. These figures will be conservative. Once a game is installed, however, it can be played as many times as you like. And as there is 15mb of space for writing games, it means you're unlikely to be erasing and re-installing particularly frequently. Given the time taken to flash a game, realistically it means you'd have to be erasing and re-writing games constantly for about 3 years for the cycle limit to be reached. Obviously some sectors, like the ones used for save game data, will get used more frequently. But again, 100,000 times is massive. If a games saves once every 5 minutes, say, you'd be talking something like playing a game without a break solidly for about a year given saving every 5 minutes. It really don't see it as an issue. perhaps you could use a socket for the flash chip so it could be changed if there were an issue or it was worn out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 With all the 1000s of everdrives out there, have you ever heard of one wearing out? Generally speaking, everything electronic will eventually wear out. That said, I'm also not sure how you'd socket flash memory with a TSOP (I assume) package. It's not like socketing a through hole DIP chip. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 perhaps you could use a socket for the flash chip so it could be changed if there were an issue or it was worn out? It then wouldn't fit in the console.... Seriously, it wont wear out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDIRunner Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 You would also be adding additional cost for something that really shouldn't be much of a concern for anyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Can you imagine someone coming close to 100,000 writes? Your fingerprints would wear out before the chip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omf Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 With all the 1000s of everdrives out there, have you ever heard of one wearing out? Generally speaking, everything electronic will eventually wear out. That said, I'm also not sure how you'd socket flash memory with a TSOP (I assume) package. It's not like socketing a through hole DIP chip. although they are different they do do tsop sockets, but as saint said, they are quite fat so probably not the best idea, i just thought that there may be a slimline version nowadays from the old thing that i have seen perhaps have a flash rotation system perhaps where the chip is much larger than the roms and it flashes to different sections of the chip on a looping system so you can multiply life ? if they will last ages and ages anyway there's probably not much point in doing that either, but i was just thinking because during the development of jhl15 i think it was a skunkboard flash chip was killed, which was the reason for my suggestions, only trying to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 although they are different they do do tsop sockets, but as saint said, they are quite fat so probably not the best idea, i just thought that there may be a slimline version nowadays from the old thing that i have seen perhaps have a flash rotation system perhaps where the chip is much larger than the roms and it flashes to different sections of the chip on a looping system so you can multiply life ? if they will last ages and ages anyway there's probably not much point in doing that either, but i was just thinking because during the development of jhl15 i think it was a skunkboard flash chip was killed, which was the reason for my suggestions, only trying to help For the Jag I'm using RAM for the cart, so there's going to be no issues there. I didn't really want to use FLASH on the NGP really, but the system is actually heavily tied to FLASH memory, so I had no choice due to space, cost and complexity constraints. I still find it hard to believe someone would wear out a FLASH chip due to erase cycles, 100,000 is a hell of a lot! Oh, and iPhone's for example use standard FLASH memory for their App storage. I've not heard of this being an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.