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Upcoming Jaguar Game Drive Cartridge


SainT

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And if so, is there a way to circumvent that protection? :P Maybe someone will make a flash cart for my flash cart so I can play all the games that are out of print but were protected! Honestly though, given the limited number of Jag CDs out there, its current price, and the fact that more of them die every year, I think someone developing a CD game would benefit by selling a ROM copy - protected or not. I've been involved with several kickstarters that distributed and sold in a non-protected ROM format, and they've done well, some enough to get follow ups.

 

I'm not sure where things stand though, as far as makers of these carts assisting in blocking things from running on them which seems to go against the overall goal of the cart, though I know we want to encourage further Jaguar development. I'm also someone with a massive collection of flash carts, and myself as well as any collector I know still buys the real cartridge (or CD or ROM from the developer) when it is in-print and an option, to support the developer. I might use a ROM to demo it before buying, but in most cases I buy the cart and ROM at the same time. I feel like most people that would put any money towards a game at all, and is into retro-gaming to the point of having a Jag (much less Jag CD) would be willing to support developers. Anyone running a rom of a recent homebrew that is still in print (in cart, CD, or ROM format) without owning it properly, never would have bought it to begin with.

 

I'm counting on this to BE my Jag CD rather than buying an old and dying one, so a ROM would be the only way for me to experience (and therefore support) new CD based games.

 

Someone copying (ripping off) and selling a developers hard work only to profit is more of my concern here than someone just downloading and enjoying a good, quick go of a fun game. I only bring it up because it has happened in the past and continues to happen. $25 CDs (or SD cards with a copied game on it in the future) tend to add up a lot over time and if it can be prevented going into that guys pocket instead of someone who actually worked hard on the game, then I would do whatever it takes to ensure it's protected.

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That makes sense. I honestly didn't think there were enough fans of Jag Homebrew to have bootlegs in real carts floating around. I didn't think there'd be a ton of profit in a Homebrew Jag game for anyone much less someone only selling knockoff copies. All the Jag fans I know check real games etc for signs of being bootleg, and I'd imagine would want to ensure their Homebrew is real as well. What I have has been ordered from the developer/publisher or atariage so I know it's legit.

 

Not against a solution for this at all, though I'd expect it to be a bigger problem in the Sega/Nintendo world. Then again can't someone just make a modified ROM as has been done with many official release containing protection? Sure it slows them down, but does it stop them enough to be worth the extra work for the flash cart maker and game dev?

 

I'm actually asking cause I'm just a customer and haven't seen things from the other side.

Edited by Hastor
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That makes sense. I honestly didn't think there were enough fans of Jag Homebrew to have bootlegs in real carts floating around. I didn't think there'd be a ton of profit in a Homebrew Jag game for anyone much less someone only selling knockoff copies. All the Jag fans I know check real games etc for signs of being bootleg, and I'd imagine would want to ensure their Homebrew is real as well. What I have has been ordered from the developer/publisher or atariage so I know it's legit.

 

Not against a solution for this at all, though I'd expect it to be a bigger problem in the Sega/Nintendo world. Then again can't someone just make a modified ROM as has been done with many official release containing protection? Sure it slows them down, but does it stop them enough to be worth the extra work for the flash cart maker and game dev?

 

I'm actually asking cause I'm just a customer and haven't seen things from the other side.

This is a reason all the ST ports aren't thrown up as just ROMs, because people have been burning them to cartridge and making profit off of other people's work. That's why they're tied to requiring a Skunkboard. But for those, I think they're okay with the JagSD cart being a way to use them. Distribution for free if I recall wasn't frowned upon, or if physical carts are to be made and sold, the porter should get something from it. Jerks that just burn carts and sell them without any payback is a real shame, but it definitely happens on the Jag.

 

I was just thinking, I know there are modded Doom carts floating around. Would be cool to be able to have some function of swapping out wads with the SDcart, but I have no idea how hard that'd be to implement.

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Wouldn't it be a better approach to make a tool that builds new roms with certain wads? Or is that already a thing? Built into the cart would be cool but also seems much more specific than anything else here. I don't think any other feature has been considered that would only benefit a single game (beyond having it work as intended). It would indeed be cool though!

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This is a reason all the ST ports aren't thrown up as just ROMs, because people have been burning them to cartridge and making profit off of other people's work. That's why they're tied to requiring a Skunkboard. But for those, I think they're okay with the JagSD cart being a way to use them. Distribution for free if I recall wasn't frowned upon, or if physical carts are to be made and sold, the porter should get something from it. Jerks that just burn carts and sell them without any payback is a real shame, but it definitely happens on the Jag.

 

I was just thinking, I know there are modded Doom carts floating around. Would be cool to be able to have some function of swapping out wads with the SDcart, but I have no idea how hard that'd be to implement.

doom runs from ram its only the assets (wad) that needs to be in rom so wad swapping shouldnt be that hard, swapping thw wad out in the doom rom is as easy as finding iwad i think it is and replacing that and everything after with something else in a hex editor

 

That makes sense. I honestly didn't think there were enough fans of Jag Homebrew to have bootlegs in real carts floating around. I didn't think there'd be a ton of profit in a Homebrew Jag game for anyone much less someone only selling knockoff copies. All the Jag fans I know check real games etc for signs of being bootleg, and I'd imagine would want to ensure their Homebrew is real as well. What I have has been ordered from the developer/publisher or atariage so I know it's legit.

 

Not against a solution for this at all, though I'd expect it to be a bigger problem in the Sega/Nintendo world. Then again can't someone just make a modified ROM as has been done with many official release containing protection? Sure it slows them down, but does it stop them enough to be worth the extra work for the flash cart maker and game dev?

 

I'm actually asking cause I'm just a customer and haven't seen things from the other side.

if you want to look at this happening right now with homebrew you need to look as this regularly, there's only a few at the moment but i expect this is only because they have ended

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?item=312618172288&hash=item48c97ebf80%3Ag%3Azr0AAOSwtNlc0FOe&_ssn=*retroriginals*&_ipg=200&rt=nc

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Then again can't someone just make a modified ROM as has been done with many official release containing protection?

As far as I know, none of the releases that have been bootlegged contained any protection to begin with. In other words, I'm not aware of any "protected" release being bootlegged. Edited by Zerosquare
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This is a reason all the ST ports aren't thrown up as just ROMs, because people have been burning them to cartridge and making profit off of other people's work.

This happens constantly, not just the ports but homebrew as well.

 

And not only do these scumbags do this with homebrew cart images, but they also make CDs and sell them that way as well. Mostly using ULS.

 

And when you report them you just end up dealing with more hate mail and insults. I can totally understand why people either leave or don't want to get involved in the first place.

 

A lot of these idiots are well known, the issue is more that people go back to them rather than that they exist at all. Anyone asking for more games who buys from one of these places is adding another nail in the coffin for homebrew.

 

I have to also say that the vast majority of Jaguar fans are great. If you are able to filter out the bad then there is a very warm and generous community lurking beneath, and for that I thank everyone there.

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This happens constantly, not just the ports but homebrew as well.

 

And not only do these scumbags do this with homebrew cart images, but they also make CDs and sell them that way as well. Mostly using ULS.

 

And when you report them you just end up dealing with more hate mail and insults. I can totally understand why people either leave or don't want to get involved in the first place.

 

A lot of these idiots are well known, the issue is more that people go back to them rather than that they exist at all. Anyone asking for more games who buys from one of these places is adding another nail in the coffin for homebrew.

 

I have to also say that the vast majority of Jaguar fans are great. If you are able to filter out the bad then there is a very warm and generous community lurking beneath, and for that I thank everyone there.

On the bright side, the SD Cart should eliminate the profiteers. The problem then becomes of dumps of cart releases being copied and distributed. Ha, speaking of your ports, I really should get set up with my skunkboard and play some of them.

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On the bright side, the SD Cart should eliminate the profiteers. The problem then becomes of dumps of cart releases being copied and distributed. Ha, speaking of your ports, I really should get set up with my skunkboard and play some of them.

The collectors will always want the originals. There are still plenty of expensive games for systems that have had flash carts for years. But yeah, it'd cut down on people making bootlegs (sorry, I think the kids call them repros or repos now), of the more expensive titles. Hopefully.

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The collectors will always want the originals. There are still plenty of expensive games for systems that have had flash carts for years. But yeah, it'd cut down on people making bootlegs (sorry, I think the kids call them repros or repos now), of the more expensive titles. Hopefully.

Alot of gamers would be willing to pay for a license to a rom if it where made available. I have done that with a couple of C64 releases(Sam's Journey and Steel Ranger).

Many want a copy of Battlesphere(for example) that isn't a bootleg and if where made available for sale I'm sure that they would happy to support the developers instead of being forced to compete with Ebay sellers which provide nothing back to the original devs.

Hopefully developers make that an option.

Edited by coleshores
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Battlesphere is a great example. I have a fairly complete Jaguar game collection, but there's no way I would ever pay for an original copy of Battlesphere. There's a lot better things that much money could be spent on than a box and plastic cartridge. But I'd pay a reasonable amount for a licensed copy to play on an SD cart.

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On the bright side, the SD Cart should eliminate the profiteers. The problem then becomes of dumps of cart releases being copied and distributed. Ha, speaking of your ports, I really should get set up with my skunkboard and play some of them.

As long as the Shelf Queens and anti-ROM/flash cart gamers ("ohhhh I feel so dirty touching those!") stick around, the problem will continue to persist.

Edited by Austin
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but will Battlesphere play on the SD cart? I assume it will, but it was also specifically coded not to work on the Skunkboard. I understand why it was done at the time, but these days all it does is help these bootleggers profit from knockoff carts. I'm sure even the original developers never figured how much Battlesphere would sell for on the secondary market in 2019.

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Forgive me if this has been covered before, as I'm sure it probably has over the course of 84-thread pages, but now that we're nearing the SD cart being released...

 

Will each SD cart have a unique serial number identifier embedded that can be pulled from future digital downloadable homebrew games as a means to tie in with that game specifically and only function on that particular SD cart? I'm unsure what means in regards to copy protection, if any, have been considered or implemented to prevent future SD-related releases from being copied and distributed like wildfire. Or CD releases for that matter even, despite it being the dying format.

 

As I continue to progress further with my own time consuming game developments, I'm interested to learn what options exist. I would also gather that if pulling hardware serial numbers is possible, then current CD homebrew development could implement a code to pull info and block the game from being run as a result of being copied to an SD card as well.

 

Appreciate any light you can provide on the subject.

 

It seems to me that this position - which is as valid as any other - is fundamentally incompatible with the very idea of an SD cart (as they are currently understood to exist). I can't see why an SD cart would be programmed to allow you to play Battlesphere or Iron Soldier II in 2019 but not let you play (say) Rebooteroids or AstroStorm 20 years from now.

Edited by Spider-Dan
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I have seen ROM downloads available for purchase from other homebrewers on other systems. Orion did the same thing with his CD releases, pay him a few bucks, download an ISO, burn your own CD. I get the point of a serial number and tying a game to that to prevent piracy, but it seems a bit overkill IMO. Unless games are uniquely encrypted for each SD cart, there is always going to be a way around protection anyhow. However, I can respect people who wouldn't want a pay for ROM download approach because inevitably deadbeats would be making physical carts and selling them in their etsy shop.

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There's always the option of making said ROMs only work on Skunkboard and SainT's SD card, not real carts. It doesn't prevent shady people from reselling the ROM as a file, but it'd solve the problem for those who only buy physical stuff, and I suspect that's the majority of people buying from bootleggers.

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This is amazing project, I did not believe this would ever happen - play CD games without Jag CD addon. Immediately after I read the topic I bought an Jaguar on eBay.

 

SainT, can you please confirm that Highlander will work from sd cartiage? I bought Jaguar only beacuse of this game :-)

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After more than 12 years in the Jaguar community, there are still things that amaze me.

 

Hahaa, yes I expected somebody will say it :D

 

Of course i not buy Jaguar only beacuse of Highlander, I'm a big collector of retro computers and consoles, but it's the only game I would like to play now and I can't. Highlander is not an great game but this is one of five which can be played only on the original hardware, and like peoples say, when you can't have something, then you want it even more :-)

 

I think only this five games we can't play in emulator: Battlemorph, Blue Lighting, Hover Strike, Iron Solider and Hightlander, i think all other Jaguar games are playable on PC or Xbox emulators. Beacuse of this, first of all, I am interested did this games will work with SD cartiage, and then for everything else.

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I think yes. I not personaly tested all games but for example Phoenix (or Feniks) emulator play over 95% Jaguar games:

Here is the compability list:

 

http://www.arts-union.ru/node/66

 

Then we have Project Tempest 0.95 who can play some games which Phoenix can't (like 3 CD game, Baldies, Primal rage and World Tour Racing).

 

http://atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=506710

 

Ok, for CD games like Dragons Lair, Space Ace, Brain Dead 13, Myst,... we already can play on many other platforms. From this side, this make Highlander and other five unemulated games very mystic and valuable (the same thing as with some Philips CDi games) and there are not many people in the world who are able to play these games.

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Highlander;

Controls were terrible, camera angles were bad, but then this applies to Resident Evil too, but look how popular that franchise is.

The story line was great though. Really irritated that the sequels were never made, since it had a lot of potential.

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