How is the Jaguar scarce?

[SwampFox56]

 

$35 for a brand new Jag. For a little while it was more expensive to buy a new copy of Doom or AvP than it was to buy the console. Snagging brand new Jag games out of the bargain bin was awesome though.

 

My dad actually worked at the largest furniture store in the United States when the Atari Jaguar came out (In fact, where my dad worked (Nebraska Furniture Mart in Omaha) is still one of the largest retail stores in the US). I don't remember his job title exactly, but he was in charge of stocking all the items in the Electronic, Stereo, and TV section of the store. Meaning he would order items directly from the manufacturers, and decided what got stocked in the store.

 

He told me stories of when the PlayStation and N64 came out. He said that they'd receive them, literally stack the boxes to the ceiling of the store, and everyday they were ALWAYS sold out of PlayStations, and usually sold out of Nintendo 64's. He also told me another funny story about how he made a mistake when he first started working there. He was new to the job, and was placing orders from Sega for Genesis-related items (i.e Controllers, RF and A/V cables, AC adapters, and Games).

 

He told me how he placed a huge order from Sega for all the items listed above, in preparation for Christmas (which was in 2 or 3 months or something like that). Anyways, he forgot to tell Sega that he wanted all of these Genesis games, controllers, etc delivered to him in the middle of November... not immediately. The way he tells the story is that a week later the CEO of the company came to him and was livid! Asking my dad why the store had hundreds of boxes, filled with literally thousands of Genesis peripherals and games. My dad said to his boss that he must of made a mistake.

 

He claims that he could tell his boss came in there to fire him. But he was able to talk his way out of it, and explained to his boss that he simply made a mistake. He also claims that his boss thought they'd never sell anywhere near the amount of merchandise he ordered. Funny thing was - by the time Black Friday came around that year - all the overstock they had from that accidental Sega over-purchase was long gone. After his boss realized just how quickly the store sold all the Sega overstock they had - he promoted my dad and put him in charge of stocking the entire store.

 

--------------------------------

 

I kind of forgot this was about the Atari Jaguar... My dad's Jaguar story is less interesting. But, when Atari released the Jaguar; my dad said that the systems would ONLY SELL when they had DOOM in stock. If people could buy Doom and a Jaguar, they'd buy the system. If they couldn't buy Doom, nobody would buy the Jaguar.

 

Pretty quickly after Atari released the Jaguar, my dad said that it stopped selling and they were selling the system NEW for $35 bundled with 4 new games for the system. My dad says that at the time, he really considered buying one for that cheap of a price. He said that near the end of the Jaguar's life-span, he decided he'd buy one on his way out of the office that day. So he brought it up to the counter, and went to grab a copy of Doom. Well the store didn't have any at this point and they were never going to be restocked either. So he said that because he couldn't buy Doom with the Jaguar, he decided not to buy the system.

 

Years later, it turns out that boxed Jaguar systems sell for a couple grand on eBay... Whenever I talk to my father about video game collecting, this business I'm running, or something along those lines; and I mention anything Atari - he ALWAYS says to me "Damn it Zeke... I should have bought that Jaguar..."

---------------------------------------

My dad has several other GREAT stories about the video game industry between 1993 and late-1999. I'd love to share his story about the DreamCast. That story is mind-boggling and it explains exactly why the DreamCast failed. But this has already gotten too long, so that's a story for another time

 

(In fact, if I can, I'd actually love to get my dad to write up that story up himself. He could tell it better than I ever could. Or post a video on YouTube, as a kind of... "For the record" type of deal. Just to document why the DreamCast failed even though the systems always sold out.

Edited July 2, 2016 by SwampFox56

[Isgoed]

That's a nice read, thanks!

 

I wouldn't mind if you put up the Dreamcast story, too.

[Atlantis]

Yeah tell the story, it's summer time and not that much are happening. I'm waiting to get home from my trip and to finally play Xenon, so until then tell the story, I'm listening.

[+madman]

I don't know if we'll ever know the actual number of units produced, maybe somewhere some Atari paperwork will turn up. I highly doubt Atari just dumped a bunch of Jag stuff into a landfill, isn't the story that B&C and Best basically bought out everything that was left in Atari's warehouse when they closed up shop? I wouldn't doubt that we'll see a warehouse find of stuff at some point, I mean just a few years ago some guy found dozens of NOS Vectrex systems in a warehouse. Anything is possible.

 

The dead systems is definitely a factor too, even on here how many tech help threads have we seen where people picked up a Jag that's blown or in even worse condition? At the end of the day it's not a console that sold millions like the NES, SNES, Genesis, etc. Combine that with YouTube videos and retro collectors and hoarders, you've got an artificially inflated market.

[sirlynxalot]

I think we have reliable materials to indicate a good estimate of approximately 225,000 units produced. Atari filed a Form 10-K (annual report of the company) with the U.S. Securities Exchange Commission in 1996. In their 10-K, atari outright says

"From the introduction of Jaguar in late 1993 through the end of 1995, Atari sold approximately 125,000 units of Jaguar. As of December 31, 1995, Atari had approximately 100,000 units of Jaguar in inventory"

Just add the units sold to units that remain in inventory and you know for sure Atari produced at least 225,000 jaguars as of 1996. Then consider the 1996 date, and how Atari was reverse merged into JTS in this year, and I would say it is reasonable to assume jaguar production stopped as of the date of the merger, if not earlier (atari would have been well aware of its problems selling its plethora of inventory and likely would have stopped or dramatically slowed production to lessen costs after realizing it was sitting on a huge backlog of stock that wasn't selling.) So we have the numbers from Atari as of December 31, 1995, and common sense would suggest they weren't pumping out a significant amount of consoles in 1996.

Edited July 4, 2016 by sirlynxalot

[Clint Thompson]

Yeah, and it's safe to assume they offloaded (JTS) all the remaining stock to KBToys, Toad Computers, etc. and then Best Elec/B&C bought out what was left.

[SoulBlazer]

I think we have reliable materials to indicate a good estimate of approximately 225,000 units produced. Atari filed a Form 10-K (annual report of the company) with the U.S. Securities Exchange Commission in 1996. In their 10-K, atari outright says

 

"From the introduction of Jaguar in late 1993 through the end of 1995, Atari sold approximately 125,000 units of Jaguar. As of December 31, 1995, Atari had approximately 100,000 units of Jaguar in inventory"

 

Just add the units sold to units that remain in inventory and you know for sure Atari produced at least 225,000 jaguars as of 1996. Then consider the 1996 date, and how Atari was reverse merged into JTS in this year, and I would say it is reasonable to assume jaguar production stopped as of the date of the merger, if not earlier (atari would have been well aware of its problems selling its plethora of inventory and likely would have stopped or dramatically slowed production to lessen costs after realizing it was sitting on a huge backlog of stock that wasn't selling.) So we have the numbers from Atari as of December 31, 1995, and common sense would suggest they weren't pumping out a significant amount of consoles in 1996.

 

I'd have to check some other estimates console sales figures, but wow, just 225k units? That's a TINY number indeed, even compared to something like the 3DO. Even the CDI may have sold better.

[Austin]

 

Even the CDI may have sold better.

 

A little over three times better, to be exact. Granted, it was also on the market for about three times the amount as well, so I guess in the long run it didn't really fare much better.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

A little over three times better, to be exact. Granted, it was also on the market for about three times the amount as well, so I guess in the long run it didn't really fare much better.

 

In terms of post-Crash mainstream systems with national distribution, I can't think of anything that sold worse than the Jaguar. There are of course outliers like the Memorex VIS that sold far less, but it's arguable how much that really counts for a variety of reasons. At least in the CD-i's case, even though early on it was pushed as a multimedia device, there was a period where Philips was going whole hog with pushing it as a videogame console. The other systems like the VIS were never sold in Electronics Boutique, for instance.

[Rick Dangerous]

 

Memorex VIS

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Memorex-VIS-Video-Information-System-Rare-Retro-Console-w-34-Video-Games-/222161996914

 

Have never even heard of this console..lol. You learn something new every day!

[Bill Loguidice]

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Memorex-VIS-Video-Information-System-Rare-Retro-Console-w-34-Video-Games-/222161996914

 

Have never even heard of this console..lol. You learn something new every day!

 

I own one with quite a bit of software. In theory, it wasn't a bad idea for the time, but the reality is far worse. The 286 processor (although heavily optimized) and 1x CD-ROM drive just isn't up to multimedia stuff, so EVERYTHING feels sluggish with it.

[SoulBlazer]

 

I own one with quite a bit of software. In theory, it wasn't a bad idea for the time, but the reality is far worse. The 286 processor (although heavily optimized) and 1x CD-ROM drive just isn't up to multimedia stuff, so EVERYTHING feels sluggish with it.

 

I think I recall this being sold in a Sears or another higher end department store BITD? Either this or one of the other 'all purpose' CD-ROM consoles/devices that were out during this time period. They gave it a big display and a demo running and everything and I just watched it for a few minutes, gawked at the price, shook my head and walked away.

 

Going back a bit on topic, I've seen other reports that Atari produced something like 300k Jag's. If they sold 225k before JTS merger happened, they probably dumped the rest with Best and other discount places just to get rid of them. It's still a really small number. As you said, here was a console available nationwide even if not a lot of stores had it, by a major gaming company, and all they could sell in two years was 225k. That's really sad.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

I think I recall this being sold in a Sears or another higher end department store BITD? Either this or one of the other 'all purpose' CD-ROM consoles/devices that were out during this time period. They gave it a big display and a demo running and everything and I just watched it for a few minutes, gawked at the price, shook my head and walked away.

 

Going back a bit on topic, I've seen other reports that Atari produced something like 300k Jag's. If they sold 225k before JTS merger happened, they probably dumped the rest with Best and other discount places just to get rid of them. It's still a really small number. As you said, here was a console available nationwide even if not a lot of stores had it, by a major gaming company, and all they could sell in two years was 225k. That's really sad.

 

I'm pretty sure the VIS was only sold at Radio Shack since Tandy owned Memorex at the time, but it's certainly possible it went elsewhere. The CD-i, at least initially, definitely went to various department stores before also making its way to videogame stores.

 

Yeah, for the Jaguar, in terms of the numbers, it's pretty bleak. That's why, while it's fun to play "what if?" with what might have "saved" the Jaguar and Atari, there are few scenarios that are particularly realistic. Consider that the Dreamcast sold over 9 million units and had particularly good success in the US and Sega still ended up bowing out. That's why I often ask at what success level would the Jaguar had to have had to save Atari and the future of the Jaguar as a platform. I can't imagine.

[+Sauron]

 

I'm pretty sure the VIS was only sold at Radio Shack since Tandy owned Memorex at the time, but it's certainly possible it went elsewhere. The CD-i, at least initially, definitely went to various department stores before also making its way to videogame stores.

 

Yeah, for the Jaguar, in terms of the numbers, it's pretty bleak. That's why, while it's fun to play "what if?" with what might have "saved" the Jaguar and Atari, there are few scenarios that are particularly realistic. Consider that the Dreamcast sold over 9 million units and had particularly good success in the US and Sega still ended up bowing out. That's why I often ask at what success level would the Jaguar had to have had to save Atari and the future of the Jaguar as a platform. I can't imagine.

 

Sega was burning through money left and right. The Jag would have been successful beyond everyone's wildest dreams had it sold half the number of Dreamcasts that Sega sold.

[rayik]

BITD software availability was a major problem. I was in a major metropolitan area and Babbage's filled only some pre-orders for Doom, AvP and Tempest 2k. I remember the Babbage's at one of the largest malls in the US initially received only six copies of AvP. It was months before I saw any on shelves.

 

I always thought Atari was cash poor to produce sufficient copies of A titles (or even any titles). Going into stores and just not seeing many games for sale had to kill sales opportunities.

[rayik]

Sega was burning through money left and right. The Jag would have been successful beyond everyone's wildest dreams had it sold half the number of Dreamcasts that Sega sold.

And surely Club Drive would have propelled 4.5M in system sales if only it had more positive magazine reviews

[Bill Loguidice]

BITD software availability was a major problem. I was in a major metropolitan area and Babbage's filled only some pre-orders for Doom, AvP and Tempest 2k. I remember the Babbage's at one of the largest malls in the US initially received only six copies of AvP. It was months before I saw any on shelves.

 

I always thought Atari was cash poor to produce sufficient copies of A titles (or even any titles). Going into stores and just not seeing many games for sale had to kill sales opportunities.

 

The Jaguar had a double whammy of too long between releases and too few quality releases. The critical first year was particularly rough.

[+CyranoJ]

 

The Jaguar had a double whammy of too long between releases and too few quality releases. The critical first year was particularly rough.

 

Yeah but 2015-2016 has been good. If only they'd hung in there a bit longer....

[Flojomojo]

BITD software availability was a major problem. I was in a major metropolitan area and Babbage's filled only some pre-orders for Doom, AvP and Tempest 2k. I remember the Babbage's at one of the largest malls in the US initially received only six copies of AvP. It was months before I saw any on shelves.

 

I always thought Atari was cash poor to produce sufficient copies of A titles (or even any titles). Going into stores and just not seeing many games for sale had to kill sales opportunities.

The few titles that were available were really expensive, too. Aliens v Predator was $70. Cut-outs like Dragon and Trevor McFur were hardly cheap at $30. I was only able to get into the Jaguar because of its market failure and eventual deep discounts.

[JaguarBrett]

 

Yeah but 2015-2016 has been good. If only they'd hung in there a bit longer....

Was just thinking how good the jag scene is now ??

[Flojomojo]

At least the frequency of jokes belittling the Jag in games magazines has decreased significantly. For that matter, so has the number of active games magazines.

[bretthorror]

I had no idea that the Jaguar sold so few units. I am surprised it's not worth more based on that, even with the small fan base. I got mine years ago from someone on here. From my PM Box, this is what I purchased in October 2007:

 

"The Jaguar with one controller.
Boxed Doom
Boxed Wolfenstein 3D
Boxed Flashback
Loose Cybermorph
Loose Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure

For about $67 shipping included."

 

Keep in mind, that's Canadian shipping, which was $22 and that price was in Canadian funds. Hahaha. I wonder what that'd go for now?

 

I'd also like to just state, when there is a Jag SD cart, I expect interest to go up a bit, as well.

Edited July 6, 2016 by bretthorror

[Austin]

I had no idea that the Jaguar sold so few units. I am surprised it's not worth more based on that, even with the small fan base. I got mine years ago from someone on here. From my PM Box, this is what I purchased in October 2007

You picked a good time to buy.

[danny_galaga]

I am still waiting for the moment some poor place opens up a warehouse full of boxed Jag and Jag Cd units and Games. I feel its out there someplace waiting to be discovered. It might even be on the back of the Declaration of Bankruptcy for Atari document.

 

Is B & C not around anymore? That is where I bought both of mine. And the 30 odd controllers that I hacked for rotaries and rapid fires.

 

I also agree that quick a few people have more than one machine. I only bought two to play networked Doom. Hardly ever did so I sold one to a friend. And he is the other aspect of price driving. He has dozens of consoles, and they all just sit in their boxes. So his machines are out of the market for a while. I can't point the finger either, mine just sit there most of the time. At least his won't get dusty!

 

Edit: has been updated for 2016

 

http://www.best-electronics-ca.com

 

So that is where quite a few are (",)

Edited July 13, 2016 by danny_galaga

[Austin]

Wow, Best's NIB console prices have gone up over the last two years or so. I think I nabbed mine while it was still $230-ish before shipping, and even I thought that was crazy. He wants $300 now before shipping. Yikes, his inventory must be low. Jag CD units are completely out, even the refurbished ones.