MEtalGuy66 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Have you tried a different atari yet? (preferrably a bone-stock one) What your describing sounds like a classic PHI2-to-bus timing skew related issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Another thing I notice from the picture is that MIO is a very early build. It has none of the "fixes" that ICD installed on the newer units. You typically had to fine tune the atari and MIO as a unit to get stable operation out of those, unless you were just extremely lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Kline Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 Have you tried a different atari yet? (preferrably a bone-stock one) What your describing sounds like a classic PHI2-to-bus timing skew related issue. Right. Same results with my fall-back stock machines, MG. Another thing I notice from the picture is that MIO is a very early build. It has none of the "fixes" that ICD installed on the newer units. You typically had to fine tune the atari and MIO as a unit to get stable operation out of those, unless you were just extremely lucky. Well, wouldn't that just be my luck, then. Sigh. --Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuf Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) The acard doesnt need any instructions. everything is marked on the pcb. SCSI ID 0 is fine.. IDE drive has to be jumpered as single/master.. On the acard, you want both termination and terminator power on. As far as the MIO config, you are setting PARTITIONS.. Not drives.. so these are absoloute sector numbers.. eg. 1 - 65536, 65537 - 131073, etc. The most you can do per partition is 65536 sectors.. If that's SDX DD512 then its a 32meg partition. any other DOS, its a 16meg partition (256 byte sectors).. Once youve configged the MIO and saved the config to the hardisk, just boot the DOS (from floppy or other SIO connected means) and format the configged drives using normal DOS format routines.. With modern LBA drives, you dont ever want to do a "low level format" so you can shitcan all the "MIO format programs".. None of that old crap applies anymore with the newer firmware.. In the SDX format program, you simply use "build directory structure".. If you want to make the drive bootable, use the appropriate dos command to write dos to it.. Its really that simple.. OK so in the spirit of this thread I decided to give a CF card a go on my MIO. I'll start by saying I've got a 1.1 256k MIO, and an 800XL with a U1MB in it. I've tried setting up the drive per MG's instructions using both a known working ACARD + CF adapter as well as a SCSI2SDv5 card, and get similar results. I'm unable to "Save config" in the MIO menu (fails with unit 0,0 failed) and the drive isn't visible in SDX. The SDX format utility doesn't actually allow me to select whichever drive I have it configured on back in the MIO, so it does seem like the MIO and SDX are communicating. In the MIO I'm configuring 1 partition/drive with type HARD, cyl 0, heads 0, start 1, end 65536. The MIO reposrts a drive size of 16383k as D8. I've sent a PM to MG about getting the updated firmware - wondering if there's anything else I can try. Edited July 25, 2016 by tuf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 How standards-compliant is the MIO SCSI implementation? I've managed to get newer Ultra160 and Ultra320 SCSI drives to work with some really antiquated hardware with nothing more than an SCA->50-pin adapter. When I say ancient I'm talking like DEC VAX and MicroVAX w/ QBUS or onboard NCR 5380-based controllers. Are these SD and IDE adapters just really non-standard or is the MIO just non-standard? Can an MIO support a full SCSI chain with multiple devices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 The MIO is non-standard, period. The MIO SCSI hardware implementation is very minimal and is from a time when SASI/SCSI-1 was the dominant standard and even with its quirks the 5380 is much better. Device compatibility depends on if the vendor chooses to honor the ancient SCSI-1 selection schemes to access the drive. This, in my opinion is a huge shortcoming as the interface cannot support the SCSI-2 and higher arbitration sequence (this requires the ability to assert both the SEL- and BSY- signals, whereas the MIO can only assert SEL-), leaving only the SCSI-1 selection sequence without arbitration possible (in SCSI-1, arbitration is optional but required in SCSI-2 and higher). Most modern SCSI devices support this mode (as well as many SCSI/IDE bridges), but again it can be hit or miss. You can have multiple devices, but you can't have multiple initiators. The other shortcomings in the original ICD firmware is it is hard-coded to deal with 256-byte data phases and it uses the old 21-bit CDBs to read/write sectors. I modified the firmware to work with variable sizes to use 32-bit CDBs, allow newer 512-byte or larger blocksizes to work, and modified the selection sequence a bit to include the initiator ID on the bus instead of single-initiator as was done initially. While some of this I attempted to address in software, you still have to keep in mind you're missing the bi-directional BSY-, parity, the databus is logic true (instead of SCSI standard which is logic false), and you're missing ATN- that would normally be on a fully-implemented interface. The statements that the MIO writes data to the drive inverted can be misleading depending on how you look at it. From a digital logic point of view, it is writing data to the drive exactly as presented as logic true. From a standards point of view, this data is supposed to be logic false and not doing this saved adding additional logic on the board. It can of course, be done in software (and it is, when sending CDBs, just not in the data phase) at the cost of performance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 The MIO is non-standard, period. The MIO SCSI hardware implementation is very minimal and is from a time when SASI/SCSI-1 was the dominant standard and even with its quirks the 5380 is much better. Device compatibility depends on if the vendor chooses to honor the ancient SCSI-1 selection schemes to access the drive. This, in my opinion is a huge shortcoming as the interface cannot support the SCSI-2 and higher arbitration sequence (this requires the ability to assert both the SEL- and BSY- signals, whereas the MIO can only assert SEL-), leaving only the SCSI-1 selection sequence without arbitration possible (in SCSI-1, arbitration is optional but required in SCSI-2 and higher). Most modern SCSI devices support this mode (as well as many SCSI/IDE bridges), but again it can be hit or miss. Yeah that sounds pretty rough. I have a pile of old SCSI drives but since I have an 850 and a RAM upgrade already it probably makes more sense to stick with IDEPlus and dual-CF adapter. MIO devices seem to go for ridiculous sums when I see one for sale. They are neat though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Always a pleasure when you provide some insights into SCSI operations! -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuf Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 OK I've tried this with every imaginable combo of Acard setting and CF cards, CF card adapters - you name it. Has anyone successfully got an MIO working with an Acard 7720U and a Sandisk Ultra 8GB (or similar)? Symptom here is the format utility in SDX instantly says disk does not respond when selecting the MIO assigned disk. I am trying to provision a single 16mb partition on the MIO, filling in nothing but the sector range. I've seen reports here of modern drives working... I don't have the latest ROM version in the MIO so that may be the culprit, but if anyone has a bit more insight I'd be happy to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 I've seen reports here of modern drives working... I don't have the latest ROM version in the MIO so that may be the culprit, but if anyone has a bit more insight I'd be happy to hear it. The original ICD firmware is hardcoded for a 256-byte data phase so it will *not* work with any devices where the native block size is larger and may fail to select devices that are expecting the initiator ID on the bus with the device ID as explained a few posts above this one. In other words, your chances of success are zero without updated firmware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 (edited) With the new firmware, Acard works 100%.. If it doesnt, then you 95% likely have a PHI2 issue with your Atari/MIO combo.. Latest firmware: http://www.rasterline.com/miov141.zip Burn it on an EPROM and stick it in your MIO.. Edited August 11, 2016 by MEtalGuy66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 You really need to go back and read the threads mentioned in post #8. Much will be explained, including more than just the firmware. Check the sections on termination. I've been using my original-type MIO with the Acard for years. (Off and on). It really works, assuming that you have a good Acard, cable, etc. (and the odds are excellent that you do). -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuf Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 (edited) You really need to go back and read the threads mentioned in post #8. Much will be explained, including more than just the firmware. Check the sections on termination. I've been using my original-type MIO with the Acard for years. (Off and on). It really works, assuming that you have a good Acard, cable, etc. (and the odds are excellent that you do). -Larry Thanks Larry - I read everything there was to read My next step is burning an eprom with the latest firmware and seeing if that does the trick. Just waiting on the new burner from Dropcheck to show up. Burning an MIO rom using an 8 bit seems proper. Edited August 14, 2016 by tuf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill98 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The picture of the MIO on the pergo floor. Was that an example or is this a picture of the said MIO in this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuf Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) With the new firmware, Acard works 100%.. If it doesnt, then you 95% likely have a PHI2 issue with your Atari/MIO combo.. Latest firmware: http://www.rasterline.com/miov141.zip Burn it on an EPROM and stick it in your MIO.. This totally worked 100%. Acard worked on the first try! Let it be known to all that you cannot use MIO v1.1 with the Acard. With 1.4.2 I've successfully tested an Acard, IOData, and SCSI2SDv5. Edited August 19, 2016 by tuf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 IMG_5512.JPG What model of Sony is that? I like the look of it with the XL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuf Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 What model of Sony is that? I like the look of it with the XL... It's a Sony TV, model KV-13TR29. I've had this one from new, still looks great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) It's a Sony TV, model KV-13TR29. I've had this one from new, still looks great. It looks really good there, and nice compact size. Too bad that model only does composite, but I'll bet it still does great at that... Edited August 21, 2016 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 With the new firmware, Acard works 100%.. If it doesnt, then you 95% likely have a PHI2 issue with your Atari/MIO combo.. Latest firmware: http://www.rasterline.com/miov141.zip Burn it on an EPROM and stick it in your MIO.. MEtalGuy66, the project where you were installing memory into my Atari 800XL has been cancelled. Please respond to my inquiries in private. I've been writing you now for weeks without response. Everything OK with you? The last message I've received from you was on July 22nd. According to AtariAge, you last read a message from me on July 25th, even while you posted this message on August 11th. You've got me very concerned. We weren't feuding, nothing has gone wrong of that I know about...what could possibly be the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 MEtalGuy66, the project where you were installing memory into my Atari 800XL has been cancelled. Please respond to my inquiries in private. I've been writing you now for weeks without response. Everything OK with you? The last message I've received from you was on July 22nd. According to AtariAge, you last read a message from me on July 25th, even while you posted this message on August 11th. You've got me very concerned. We weren't feuding, nothing has gone wrong of that I know about...what could possibly be the issue? Hmmm.. Could it be.. I dunno.... SATAN???!??? I responded to your PM. i will pack your stuff up tonight and ship it back to you asap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wemichener Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I know this is an old topic, but I need some help. I do not have the ability to burn my own eprom so I can upgrade my 256k MIO to the new bios 1.4.2. Right now it has v1.1 and I would like to use an acard 7720uso I can utilize IDE drives and CF cards with my MIO. Can anyone help me out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Do you just need an EPROM burned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wemichener Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Kyle22, I don't have any EPROM chips, just the ZIP file. I would need an EPROM(I think a 27128 but the zip file also has programs for a 2764 and a 27256) and the burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wemichener Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) If any one can help me with this I would be grateful, just name your price. 1. EPROM with the MIO new firmware(1.42 or whatever the newest is that will work) Edited February 23, 2017 by wemichener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 PM me with the file(s), I'll give you my address. Send me the EPROM(s), and I will burn them for the cost of shipping to send them back to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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