Atari Flashback Portable!

[Keatah]

I was dropped on my head, therefore I can't make any sense out of anything. I don't even remember how to back scroll and read my previous posts.

[+MrBlackCat]

And why on earth would you get one of those then..? What is your point? (Besides the fact that a CRT with NO other inputs I haven't seen in about 30 years...)

Then you haven't been looking... in my searching for spare CRT's over the last couple of years, I have seen literally hundreds of CRT's in every brand, made with only a single Coaxial input... made right up until the last months of CRT manufacture. I have always guessed they were for Cable TV only maybe at hotels or something like that. I have seen these in flea markets, junk stores, pawn shops etc.

 

<snip>

Oh, and "a multitude" of reasons..? Please name 3 reasons for choosing RF besides what you said just about taste/furniture matching and being too lazy to mod a console...

I am far from lazy, but I have no desire to modify original equipment, as in the composite conversion for Atari 2600's. Maintaining some things as original, has value. If it doesn't to you, that doesn't mean someone is lazy.

 

With that said, I don't have that many systems with RF only, but I do have some 16 port Composite Selector units that can isolate well enough to use them with RF signals on the video (yellow) RCA ports. With this setup, I can easily select them into the CRT TV's single Coax port. I also split the signal, amp it, converting it to Composite so the video can be fed to all types of converters and then into any/all of the possible screens in the room.

 

More on Topic... I just realized I have the video cable for my Sega Gopher, and it works on all the AtGames units I have. Been playing my Atari Flashback Portable... on the 30" Sony WEGA. Looks great to me.

 

MrBlackCat

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yeah play duck hunt on a flat screen and see how that works.

Exactly. The NES Zapper didn't work, so I pulled out my Colt 45 to put the ducks (and the shiny new display) out of their misery...

 

/jk

 

 

And why on earth would you get one of those then..? What is your point? (Besides the fact that a CRT with NO other inputs I haven't seen in about 30 years...)

Because oftentimes the CRTs are hand me downs, and some of us had parents who shopped at Kmart instead of Best Buy.

 

The CRT with the biggest most beautiful picture we own is a 1993 Zenith with faux woodgrain, and it had RF only. It's absolutely perfect for use the Atari.

 

I was dropped on my head, therefore I can't make any sense out of anything. I don't even remember how to back scroll and read my previous posts.

That explains a lot, actually!

[freqdata]

Hello

 

I'm in Toronto and the only option to get this here seems to be online through Bed Bath and Beyond.

 

So I ordered it, and 9 days later it shows up.

 

Was wondering if anyone had the same issues re the packaging, it was just loose in the box so it could totally move around,

and when I opened it, the screen was scratched and it had something loose inside when I turned it over.

 

I shook it lightly and yep, something in there bouncing around.

 

The 4 MB SD card that I formatted with SD Card formatter, and with the compatible ROM pack I got from here wasn't showing up,

not sure if it's due to the mystery part inside ?

 

Kinda disappointing especially this close to Christmas as now it'll taKe weeks to get this shipped back and a new one returned.

 

Just curious if anyone had this happen.

 

Cheers,

Dave

Edited December 13, 2016 by freqdata

[+Nathan Strum]

I used to have a CyberTech S-video mod in my 2600, and liked it very much. Once I got it dialed in.

 

But unfortunately, it died.

 

So I went back to RF out, since I couldn't get a CyberTech mod to replace it, and had pretty-much had my fill of testing mods to find what worked.

 

But I found a better way to do RF. I picked up a Sony TU-1041U tuner off eBay for about $25. I plugged the 2600's RF into that, then its composite out into the TV. It produces an excellent picture. You can pick up a nice used CRT monitor to go with it if you want, and you don't need one with RF-in. I use it with my LCD HDTV, because hanging a CRT on the wall is a little cumbersome.

 

Is the tuner as good as a really good mod? Nope. But it's considerably better than a stock RF connection. The Sony's de-modulator is much better than what's built into most TVs or VCRs, and you can keep the RF cable from the 2600 to the Sony very short, which cuts down on noise.

 

Why... here's one. And another.

 

The main reason classic games look bad on modern TVs is because most flat panel TVs have extra picture processing "features" turned on by default (noise reduction, deinterlacing, motion smoothing, etc), which should all just be shut off. Besides actually adding artifacts, they can introduce noticeable lag. But that's a whole 'nother topic for discussion.

 

And if you are looking for a good CRT monitor, just do an eBay search for "Sony PVM monitor". Make sure they're from a reputable dealer, and don't have any burn-in or other major defects, and you're good to go. I've got some at work that are nearly 20 years old, and are still in excellent shape. And since production houses are dumping their old professional grade analog gear, you can pick them up pretty cheap.

[walterg74]

(Tongue in cheek humor with a sly grin.) Now I will school you up. AV modding is not always about going from RF to Composite. It can also mean going from Composite to S-Video, or to RGB. And there are RGB and VGA boards that plug into the II series. A solderless mod, if you will. Other video-related mods relied on clips and 2-chip mini daughtercards - but those were mostly for dealing with character sets for 80 and 160 column cards.

You do know that most of the times "modding" Is just pulling out the signals that the console already produces natively and that the RF was just there because it was needed at the time, right?

[walterg74]

(Tongue in cheek humor with a sly grin.) Now I will school you up. AV modding is not always about going from RF to Composite. It can also mean going from Composite to S-Video, or to RGB. And there are RGB and VGA boards that plug into the II series. A solderless mod, if you will. Other video-related mods relied on clips and 2-chip mini daughtercards - but those were mostly for dealing with character sets for 80 and 160 column cards.

How is any of that relevant?

[walterg74]

Sometimes RF is better than some of these mods. I've had modded systems where:

 

1) contrast/brightness and/or color/tint is off and no amount of tuning the pots fully corrects

 

2) sound is distorted or unbalanced in the case of the 7800 where Commando, Ballblazer and any new games with Pokey

 

3) the interference (yes, stray RF still affects your cable) just produces a *different* pattern of wavy lines than native RF out

 

4) dot crawl is observed

 

5) plastic case is hacked, cut and drilled when you'd rather it was left all original. People could simply route breakout cables which inherently have better shielding through existing holes, but most don't

 

6) ghosting or worse yet, *more* apparent

 

7) jailbars are *more* prevalent

 

Eight) modern TV set composite input not 100% compatible w/ A/V modded console - doesn't sync

 

Whoops, came up with more than three reasons.

Oops, none of your reasons make any sense or are even correct/relevant in most cases (the case hacking one especially made me laugh..

[walterg74]

The whole thing!!!!

 

Now you brought up SVideo and RGB (or gosh VGA) that are all composhit artifacts destroying AV signaling standards ..... we're never gonna hear the end of the "book of the righteous" now, are we?

 

I kind of like how that story goes.

 

1. Statement that the only way (or the original way) to enjoy something must be your way as a fact and not an opinion

2. bicker back and forth with anyone with a different opinion just because it's different than yours

3. throw couple of insults here and there

4. there's no 4, the damage is done at 1

 

 

Note: there exists a subset of games that indeed catered to the CRT itself, color artifacts (this actually targets the composite signal itself) or blending or light gun tech of the time, but the vast majority had to deal with it just because it was what he user's home had and they can be played and actually enjoyed in HD, upscaling and all. Wrt lag that's a different subject, CRT is king of lag free by construction, I hope we'll see HD sets with lower and lower buffering delay, 1 frame would be ideal (less if possible but I doubt as many sets take a 240p signal as a 480i and try to deinterlace it to a 480p which causes 2 full frames of lag when done naively [like wait first field while buffering it, interlace with second field in buffer, display]).

You're completely missing the point. I never mentioned anything about "converting "signals ( although apparently this is something a lot of people have read into on their own coming to their own conclusions ).

 

What I'm talking about is NATIVE signals produced by the consoles/computers. And yes in a lot of cases this includes composite, chrome/luma, and even RGB no artifacting no weird stuff or any of the things you mentioned ( Heck, in some cases all you need is the proper cable, period).

[walterg74]

I was dropped on my head, therefore I can't make any sense out of anything. I don't even remember how to back scroll and read my previous posts.

Thanks for the clarification! Now it all makes sense

[Keatah]

You do know that most of the times "modding" Is just pulling out the signals that the console already produces natively and that the RF was just there because it was needed at the time, right?

 

Yes. I am a master technician.

[Keatah]

How is any of that relevant?

 

I don't exactly know. But I know it. Remember I dumped my BMX and gravity beat my head up.

[phoenixdownita]

You're completely missing the point. I never mentioned anything about "converting "signals ( although apparently this is something a lot of people have read into on their own coming to their own conclusions ).

Sure I have

 

What I'm talking about is NATIVE signals produced by the consoles/computers. And yes in a lot of cases this includes composite, chrome/luma, and even RGB no artifacting no weird stuff or any of the things you mentioned ( Heck, in some cases all you need is the proper cable, period).

The "NATIVE" signals were not that native at all but children of their time. A few consoles emitted composite directly from the VDP/VDU (NES for example or 9918 based), others instead emitted RGB then color encoded to composite/SVideo via appropriate encoders, at that point which one is NATIVE is debatable, I'd say the RGB is. Others even when NATIVELY generating RGB they only exposed SVideo/Composite.

Note that so far none of this means the signal was destined ONLY to CRT albeit that was the tech of the time.

The fact that SOME games took advantage of the CRT itself and the composite signal modulation to their advantage (artifacts, blending etc...) make those game cater directly to the signaling and rendering to CRT but they are a minority. The rest can be enjoyed in full glory over an LCD/Plasma.

 

Regarding lag that is a different issue, heck I remember bitd 100Hz CRT TVs that created horrible side effects on the consoles of the time and their not exactly std 240p to the point that I couldn't really play on them, still CRT though.

 

But I expect you will try to convince me that all videogames for all consoles CAN ONLY BE ENJOYED on a CRT or it is not the ORIGINAL.

The answer to that is "HELL NO" .... there are games that can only be played on a CRT for sure (light gun games of the time for example) but there's a vast production that is perfectly fine upscaled and rendered on a modern display (not of the CRT kind).

 

Lag is a different matter and there's work done, like the approach by kevtris on the AVS NES via speeding up the CPU/PPU pair of the original NES and extracting digital info on the gfx to render via HDMI by simply staying ahead of the NES by 5-10 lines is really something cool.

 

So given you won't convince me that it's blasphemy to play retro games on a modern non CRT based display and I sure as hell don't care about convincing you otherwise either, let's agree to disagree and move one, nothing new here another "righteous" one that is so sure that is "CRT or bust", been there, done that, mehhh!!!

 

EDIT: I think the mods should clean all this CRT nonsense spew from the thread as totally irrelevant to its topic. I promise I won't write any more about it ..... sorry I got caught in it.

[walterg74]

Sure I have

 

 

Well, I wasn't talking about you soecifically, but I guess now you have?

 

 

The "NATIVE" signals were not that native at all but children of their time.

 

 

If a signal is present as the output of a chip on the original console, how is that "not that native at all"..? Seriously now, you're going to decide to split up the engineer's original design into your beliefs.. ok...

 

A few consoles emitted composite directly from the VDP/VDU (NES for example or 9918 based), others instead emitted RGB then color encoded to composite/SVideo via appropriate encoders, at that point which one is NATIVE is debatable, I'd say the RGB is. Others even when NATIVELY generating RGB they only exposed SVideo/Composite.

 

No, it's not debateable, it's all part of the original native design. And if you don't want to consider this additional circuitry, fine, whatever is output natively to start with...

And one thing's for sure, NO console outputs

RF natively... unless you want to argue that too?

 

Note that so far none of this means the signal was destined ONLY to CRT albeit that was the tech of the time.

The fact that SOME games took advantage of the CRT itself and the composite signal modulation to their advantage (artifacts, blending etc...) make those game cater directly to the signaling and rendering to CRT but they are a minority. The rest can be enjoyed in full glory over an LCD/Plasma.

 

 

Yes, the engineers designed it to be used on CRTs but they also envisioned it being used on a different technology that would no doubt later come along...

I clearly remember a speech from the 80s, where this guy was saying:

 

- yes, but don't think out console can only be hooked up to your tv or monitor, no siree! It can also be used on whatever the heck comes up with later on.. at least I'm pretty sure you wil be able to hook it up somehow to whatever type of port/connection or even technology will be created at some point...

 

Regarding lag that is a different issue, heck I remember bitd 100Hz CRT TVs that created horrible side effects on the consoles of the time and their not exactly std 240p to the point that I couldn't really play on them, still CRT though.

 

Yep. Any tv that was "enhanced" in some way...

 

But I expect you will try to convince me that all videogames for all consoles CAN ONLY BE ENJOYED on a CRT or it is not the ORIGINAL.

 

Of course not. That would be silly.

 

Just the ones that are retro...

 

The answer to that is "HELL NO" .... there are games that can only be played on a CRT for sure (light gun games of the time for example) but there's a vast production that is perfectly fine upscaled and rendered on a modern display (not of the CRT kind).

 

See previous point.

 

Lag is a different matter and there's work done, like the approach by kevtris on the AVS NES via speeding up the CPU/PPU pair of the original NES and extracting digital info on the gfx to render via HDMI by simply staying ahead of the NES by 5-10 lines is really something cool.

 

Yeah, gotta confess I know nothing about that. Or even undestand the techinque as I can undestand the whole raking a look at what comes up, but given your input is based in what you see and that's already processed and drawn, even while knowing what's ahead wouldn't it still have to reproces/change the next frames? Sounds really interesting...

 

So given you won't convince me that it's blasphemy to play retro games on a modern non CRT based display and I sure as hell don't care about convincing you otherwise either, let's agree to disagree and move one, nothing new here another "righteous" one that is so sure that is "CRT or bust", been there, done that, mehhh!!!

 

Agree.. this is like trying to convince women who think that HD and SD look exactly the same... if you can't see it, you just can't see it... But as long as you're happy with an LCD, knock yourself out I guess...

 

EDIT: I think the mods should clean all this CRT nonsense spew from the thread as totally irrelevant to its topic. I promise I won't write any more about it ..... sorry I got caught in it.

On the contrary, it makes perfect sense as to why the portable looks like it does Edited December 13, 2016 by walterg74

[+Intellivision Master]

This is related to the Atari Flashback Portable topic but my question is about the charging of the system. The first time I charged my Atari Flashback Portable via a cell phone wall charger it only took 5 hours and not 11 like the manual said. When it charged the red light is very bright but once it's done charging the yellow light is dim. I don't know if the brightness of the charging light matters. Also and it may be my unit that's faulty but I've noticed that some games will freeze after playing for about 10 minutes or so such as the Bowling game. Other games I've seen the screen color change randomly from a yellow to a red to a blue, etc. I'm not sure why that is. That's why I'm thinking it could be my unit that is bad. Or is it just the emulation of some games that cause this? Has anyone else experienced this issue with the games on their portable?

[atarifan88]

I haven't had any screen issues (unlike one particular person on here who keeps shoving CRT garbage down everyone's throat). I charged my portable for the 11 hours the manual called for regardless of the green light being on early. I don't know if that has anything to do with your issue or not but you might want to try before you decide to return it.

[Asaki]

We put up with fuzzy RF, being tethered by the distance of our cords, small displays, poor ergonomics, etc.

 

As I said, we had a large TV, and most consoles had composite video, so those weren't really an issue for us.

 

The sofa was approximately six feet away from the TV, so cord distance seemed fine. Today, everything is wireless, and I would definitely trade having to recharge batteries all the time for the slight inconvenience of keeping the cords untangled.

 

Ergonomics, I think is debatable. Almost every console had numerous control options to choose from, and sometimes it really depends on the game you're playing. Street Fighter II definitely benefits from a 6-button Genesis controller, but one would probably prefer an SNES pad for something like Smash TV. I know people badmouth the original NES controller for being too boxy, and while I've always thought it was just fine, I haven't really touched one since I got my dogbones.

 

 

But I agree with others, we've gone -way- too far off topic.

 

 

Many consumer grade CRTs from bitd don't have composite or other inputs besides RF. And RF can still look good on classic CRT direct connected to the console with a properly shielded cable (no ratty manual or auto-switches)...

Most BITD TVs had a VCR attached, though, and a lot of those had composite/s-video inputs on them =)

 

Depending on the VCR, it could look a tiny bit better than straight game->RF->TV. Plus you still have the option of external audio.

 

I recently took our old Atari switchbox, popped it open, and soldered the physical switch itself out of the circuit. The picture is so much cleaner now.

[Keatah]

I remember getting a VCS in 1977. I opened it up and plugged it into the TV. It had RF output and that was native to the console.

 

One can argue that it isn't by looking backwards further into the console to see the luma and chroma signals. But they aren't native either. You can go backwards summore see what generates those signals.

 

So what *is* native?

 

---

 

As far as a console being able to work with a display device that hasn't been invented yet? That's ridiculous. You have to know the specs of the future device so that you may tailor the output to match. The engineer that said that may have left all digital signals open and available on an expansion connector. But an add-on of some is gonna be needed to convert and adapt. The date of when the adapter is being made is going to be the same as or later than the new display device.

[Keatah]

I haven't had any screen issues (unlike one particular person on here who keeps shoving CRT garbage down everyone's throat). I charged my portable for the 11 hours the manual called for regardless of the green light being on early. I don't know if that has anything to do with your issue or not but you might want to try before you decide to return it.

 

Most electronics go into a trickle-charge state when they're done and finished at 100%. This is to prevent the cells from naturally discharging because of chemistry resistance.

 

Most Lithium cells ship at about half-charge, the chemistry is more neutral and suited to long-term storage. And the right way to handle them is to drain them to 20-30% and give a full charge.

 

It also bears mentioning that you can't really "condition" a lithium battery. They are consumed at pace-X and that's it. El'finito! Any conditioning exercises or "cleaning the electrodes" just adds to the wear level, unlike NiMH or NiCd.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Keatah

[Everett1954]

Like I said earlier, this thread is not about CRT and Flat panel displays, there are threads for that.

 

This is about the Atari Flashback Portable!

 

Some of you have a hard time staying on topic!

 

Anyways who has the largest SD file collection of properly named, working games with homebrew and hacks? How many games?

 

Please post your set for others to try.

[walterg74]

I remember getting a VCS in 1977. I opened it up and plugged it into the TV. It had RF output and that was native to the console.

 

One can argue that it isn't by looking backwards further into the console to see the luma and chroma signals. But they aren't native either. You can go backwards summore see what generates those signals.

 

So what *is* native?

 

Yes, you can go back as far as you need but inly until you get a set of signals that can be fed into the appropriate input to make up the image, and there is nothing behind that with the same charavteristics, and call that the real native if you like. This will never be the case of RF, since it's, as it implies, a previous video signal modulated to be used in a tuner...

Thanks for making my point though!

 

 

As far as a console being able to work with a display device that hasn't been invented yet

? That's ridiculous. You have to know the specs of the future device so that you may tailor the output to match. The engineer that said that may have left all digital signals open and available on an expansion connector. But an add-on of some is gonna be needed to convert and adapt. The date of when the adapter is being made is going to be the same as or later than the new display device.

Of course it's ridiculous...now go back and re-read it but without having taken sarcasm-supression pills...

[Keatah]

Yes, you can go back as far as you need but inly until you get a set of signals that can be fed into the appropriate input to make up the image, and there is nothing behind that with the same charavteristics, and call that the real native if you like. This will never be the case of RF, since it's, as it implies, a previous video signal modulated to be used in a tuner...

Thanks for making my point though!

 

And that is why operating in the digital domain, without all the conversion from one level to the next to the next, is best. Dealing away with the entire analog chain leads to new heights in quality and consistency.

[walterg74]

 

And that is why operating in the digital domain, without all the conversion from one level to the next to the next, is best. Dealing away with the entire analog chain leads to new heights in quality and consistency.

Except you're modifying/converting the original, native, and analog signal...

[Keatah]

Except you're modifying/converting the original, native, and analog signal...

 

No. We are not. It is being synthesized from the ground up. All in the digital domain. Never enters the analog work. The 0's and 1's remain that way till they are converted into analog light at the display.

[Keatah]

Yes, the engineers designed it to be used on CRTs but they also envisioned it being used on a different technology that would no doubt later come along...

I clearly remember a speech from the 80s, where this guy was saying:

 

- yes, but don't think out console can only be hooked up to your tv or monitor, no siree! It can also be used on whatever the heck comes up with later on.. at least I'm pretty sure you wil be able to hook it up somehow to whatever type of port/connection or even technology will be created at some point...

 

I wonder what technology they had in mind? Whatever it was, the system(s) they designed will need adapters and converters to make it work. I wonder where they got their clairvoyant powers from?