Nintendo Classic Mini announced

[Osgeld]

- radically shorter development cycles compared to current-gen consoles.

- the advantage of modern PCs and emulators for the development process.

- far lower cost for cartridge ROMs as compared to the original era of NES development.

 

 

1) no there is an art to squeezing out a top notch 8 bit game that just isnt a mainstream skill of today, programmers learn java, not 6502 ASM

2) maybe but even back when the NES was still a thing to devote large amounts of time to, they had top notch PC's running multiple times faster, connected direct to hardware, its less centralized now though

3) I dont know about far lower cost rom's, parallel adressing roms hit their peak about 25 years ago, its now i2c, twi, spi, and one wire setups, roms with 8 bits of data and 16 bits of address pins probably cost about as much today as they did when the NES was discontinued , heck I started with embedded computer systems in the late 90's and never used a parallel rom to date, only recently, like in the last year or 2 messing with 2600 and other 8 bit systems have I ever bothered with them, why, in modern land its most likely i2c, hey device XXX command XYZ data ABC, couple wires boom done got a buss of dozens of devices

 

I guess what I am saying is, you are relying on a subset of skills that was dying when I was a kid (im 37) to bolster the niche uber nerd popularity of a quick cash in in preperation of a new generation of console during a low point of a company

 

aka be glad it is what it is

Edited July 15, 2016 by Osgeld

[Bill Loguidice]

I'm personally skeptical of this being repurposed or revamped Wii or 3DS technology mostly because of the HDMI output and the resolution requirements. It might be more expensive than it's worth to re-engineer that technology when there are inexpensive ARM-based setups they can re-purpose for their needs, particularly since this is just regular emulation we're almost certainly talking about here. I would think the controller connectors are not that big of a deal either on a setup like that for them since it's their own tech and there are obvious advantages to making them "proprietary". With that said, if it's not something like that, I'd be more inclined to believe it's scaled back Wii U technology than either Wii or 3DS since they'd arguably have fewer steps to take to make it do what they needed.

[Keatah]

I think HDMI is the right choice. You always want to match the source and destination hardware. And the target market will have more HDMI sets than analog. Furthermore, analog is just so yesterday in not the best way.

[Atariboy]

If this is Wii based, I'd love to see homebrewers figure out how to extract the video out components that handle the upscaling and HDMI output and somehow modify original Wii hardware with it.

 

For us here, we have been fortunate to have a Flashback unit that did not use emulation, so I am sure we are all smart enough to see through the smokescreen: save states means emulation. Emulation in these units has, historically, been pretty crappy.

 

There's no significance here in how it's playing these NES games since their NES emulation has been fine since day 1 when it first appeared in Animal Crossing, other than the decision to go with a dark color palette for whatever reason.

 

I can't see Nintendo getting this wrong.

 

Do you guys think that Nintendo will now start suing clones/nesAV/flash cart maker etc...etc.... for IP infringement or alike?

I am not even sure the rights still apply to their HW but nonetheless it is know that the big N is pretty litigious when it comes to its property.

 

There's nothing illegal with NES clones, multicarts (Unless preloaded with copyrighted Nintendo software), etc. All NES related patents are long expired by 2016.

 

And while you can bet that Nintendo would've bullied any attempt at a reprogammable multicart back in the day regardless of the true legalities surrounding it, knowing that they can afford to pursue such attempts to discourage virtually any adversary that isn't a large company, such hardware is hardly in competition with this new plug and play today.

 

As spoken about in this thread, this isn't aimed at people with walls lined with NES cardboard game boxes, those buying homebrew $500 HDMI equipped NES systems, or Everdrive/Powerpak customers in 2016. This is aimed squarely at the casual segment of the market that represents the vast majority of their potential business. Catering to the dedicated classic gamer isn't worth Nintendo's bother since there aren't enough nuts like us to go around.

 

Thus there's little reason to pursue attempts to discourage these products, which would only draw the ire of their fanbase in today's world where such news spreads like wildfire. Heck, I bet that easily half of what they sell here in the United States this year will occur on Black Friday and that we'll see pallets stacked full of these at every Wal-Mart. You can't get more casually oriented than that.

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Atariboy

[Bill Loguidice]

I think HDMI is the right choice. You always want to match the source and destination hardware. And the target market will have more HDMI sets than analog. Furthermore, analog is just so yesterday in not the best way.

 

I can't see any good argument for not using HDMI in a mainstream product (other than cost, which obviously applies less and less these days to the point where it's going to be a complete non-factor). I would think the only people who give a damn about legacy connections are those people who have the original hardware anyway and don't even need something like this.

[mstulir]

I'm personally skeptical of this being repurposed or revamped Wii or 3DS technology mostly because of the HDMI output and the resolution requirements. It might be more expensive than it's worth to re-engineer that technology when there are inexpensive ARM-based setups they can re-purpose for their needs, particularly since this is just regular emulation we're almost certainly talking about here.

 

I don't understand your skepticism since the 3DS is based on ARM technology. Modifying the 3DS hardware is not a stretch, but if you are not aware of the core hardware, I can see where you would be confused.

 

If you already have a software component (Virtual Console) on existing hardware (3DS) that works to a degree that many (not me) consider to be satisfactory, leveraging your investment in what you already have makes much more economic sense than starting over with new hardware and new software.

[0078265317]

lol Nintendo will never release a cart based system because the only people who still have NES carts are the small amount of old video game fanatics like us. Let's just face the facts ok

 

<editied as the way I phrased it earlier could have been misconstrued as an insult, which it wasn't >

Yes carts are a no. But if they leagalized roms and added an SD slot. Or charged 5 bucks a rom it would be sweet. 30 games will get boring fast. I know its how you make money. Like atari FBs. 1 was not enough. But if you leagalize roms and charge like 5 dollars a rom or something. Like a serate mini virtual console. 1 machine only capable of 30 games max will get very old very fast.

[Atariboy]

I think an ARM based setup designed to repurpose a modified version of their NES emulator from the 3DS is more likely than Wii/Wii U based hardware.

[0078265317]

http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/14/12187296/nintendo-nes-classic-edition-announced-price-games

 

Here is the list of included games. Also the controller that come with it are hookupable to a wiimote. So I wonder if that means my wii classic controller also works with the mini nes. And also if they will sell the controllers separately. And also for wii there is no need. Got this. Gun games don't work. The device is not wired for the gun besides the whole hdtv issue. But otherwise works. Allows you to use nes and snes controllers on wii virtual console. Not remade ones but real controllers from back then.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Wii-2-1-Retro-Adapter/dp/B002WVIH1E/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1468554841&sr=8-11&keywords=wii+to+nes

[Atariboy]

The game list, the Wiimote compatibility, and confirmation that controllers will also be sold separately are all in the press release in the first post of this thread.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Atariboy

[Bill Loguidice]

 

I don't understand your skepticism since the 3DS is based on ARM technology. Modifying the 3DS hardware is not a stretch, but if you are not aware of the core hardware, I can see where you would be confused.

 

If you already have a software component (Virtual Console) on existing hardware (3DS) that works to a degree that many (not me) consider to be satisfactory, leveraging your investment in what you already have makes much more economic sense than starting over with new hardware and new software.

 

The 3DS hardware is relatively old and designed to drive very low resolution mobile screens. I don't see the advantage to Nintendo using that as a technological foundation other than being able to convert their software base and overall knowledge from the 3DS (and improving upon it appropriately) to more modern hardware using newer ARM technology. I don't know what advantage there would be in re-purposing the 3DS when they'd have access to the latest and greatest ARM stuff that would fall well within their budgetary restrictions for this project.

[Keatah]

All the roms are out there for the taking. Have been for years. So, why not monetize that? "Buy" a rom and get a certificate of authenticity like a card with 2 screenshots, cover art, and a summary. A trading card certificate like thingy. Sell a nice binder..

 

I'm sure they'd never go for it but it'd be cool. The new age collector doesn't want the burden of 500 cart boxes sprawling everywhere.

[homerhomer]

The fact that the box says "NES classic edition" leads me to think this is the first of a couple different types.

[0078265317]

The game list, the Wiimote compatibility, and confirmation that controllers will also be sold separately are all in the press release in the first post of this thread.

 

Yes these controllers will work work with wii mote. That is fine. But will it work the other way around. Will the classic controller from wii work on this NES FB?

[thadsilverfox]

 

 

Are there Wii Classic Controller extension cables? Some of these controller cables are on the short side like my Hori arcade stick since they were designed to be tethered to a portable Wiimote. An extension cable would come in handy for this system now that they have to physically reach an actual console connected to a television.

I haven't looked at a Wiimote in ages but wouldn't this mini NES controller plug right into the back of it thus no need for extension cables since the Wiimote uses IR?

Edited July 15, 2016 by thadsilverfox

[Skippy B. Coyote]

Yes these controllers will work work with wii mote. That is fine. But will it work the other way around. Will the classic controller from wii work on this NES FB?

I haven't looked at a Wiimote in ages but wouldn't this mini NES controller plug right into the back of it thus no need for extension cables since the Wiimote uses IR?

Yes and yes. The details confirming the answers to both questions are all in the press release.

[thadsilverfox]

Yes carts are a no. But if they leagalized roms and added an SD slot. Or charged 5 bucks a rom it would be sweet. 30 games will get boring fast. I know its how you make money. Like atari FBs. 1 was not enough. But if you leagalize roms and charge like 5 dollars a rom or something. Like a serate mini virtual console. 1 machine only capable of 30 games max will get very old very fast.

No way would they get boring fast. They are classics for a reason and I never get tired of playing these games. I may put them away for awhile but I always come back to them.

[romeoteknik]

I want to see some screenshots of the games, I'm worried they will use the same virtual console emulation which has that terrible dark color palette. I'm hoping for pixel perfection output that the AVS NES is going to bring.

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by romeoteknik

[0078265317]

No way would they get boring fast. They are classics for a reason and I never get tired of playing these games. I may put them away for awhile but I always come back to them.

 

Well once you have beaten all of them...

[thadsilverfox]

 

Well once you have beaten all of them...

I have beaten most of them...

[thadsilverfox]

Yes and yes. The details confirming the answers to both questions are all in the press release.

I do not see anywhere in the press release where it says that the Wiimotes are compatible with the mini NES console.

[0078265317]

I do not see anywhere in the press release where it says that the Wiimotes are compatible with the mini NES console.

 

The wii motes are not compatible if there is no bluetooth. But the white classic controllers are most likely. The ones that plug into the back.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

I do not see anywhere in the press release where it says that the Wiimotes are compatible with the mini NES console.

Ahh, I misunderstood your question. I thought you were asking if you could plug the NES Mini controller into a Wii remote and use it as a Classic Controller on the Wii. You can totally do that, but there is no Bluetooth support in the NES Mini so you can't use a Wii remote as a NES Mini controller. Only Wii Classic Controllers and other controllers that use the Classic Controller plug.

[0078265317]

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Misc-/Nintendo-Classic-Mini/Nintendo-Classic-Mini-Nintendo-Entertainment-System-1124287.html

[mstulir]

 

The 3DS hardware is relatively old and designed to drive very low resolution mobile screens. I don't see the advantage to Nintendo using that as a technological foundation other than being able to convert their software base and overall knowledge from the 3DS (and improving upon it appropriately) to more modern hardware using newer ARM technology. I don't know what advantage there would be in re-purposing the 3DS when they'd have access to the latest and greatest ARM stuff that would fall well within their budgetary restrictions for this project.

 

Again, you do not understand the hardware. No, the hardware is not just designed for low-resolution screens. Yes, that PICA200 GPU at the heart of the 3DS is 9 years old, but it supports HDMI along with full HD video encoding/decoding. That GPU is capable of so much more than it is being used for currently.

 

Your argument about the latest & greatest ARM tech does not hold water. Nintendo is a company that has a long history of building under-powered less-expensive hardware and focusing on gameplay experience. They are also masters at being fiscally conservative. They are not going to throw money at the latest ARM hardware when the tech that they already have access to is less expensive and does the job just fine for the majority of possible consumers of this device. Nintendo is out to sell games and make profit. At least they elected to splurge in the correct area by re-licensing as many 3rd party titles as they did. Yes, that makes the unit much more attractive, but kills your profit fast.

 

If they invest in newer/more powerful/more costly hardware than they really need, then throw in the game re-licensing costs, development/prototyping costs, overall engineering costs, tool/die costs, manufacturing costs, packaging costs, transportation/shipping costs & marketing costs, where is your profit? Once all of these costs are estimated, I have to assume (based on my own experience in this area) that their CTM per unit will be somewhere around $22-$25, and they will expect to sell it to the retailers for somewhere in the $32-$36 range....depending on the size of the order. (Note that I could see the CTM being closer to $12-17 per unit without the licensing costs.) You sell higher than that to the retailers & the MSRP will need to go up as well....which means you kill your impulse buyers. Your argument makes ZERO economic sense.

 

The advantage of my theory is leveraging their existing investment in tech to lower cost of a new product. Alter your VC code to support the HD features you currently are not utilizing. Add the HDMI output your graphics chip already supports. Add appropriate input interfaces...which is the easiest part, and you have the makings of a big seller this holiday.

 

In the end, though, I would never buy one of these for the same reason I would never buy anything from AtGames.....you will never get full nostalgia feelings from a device that is utterly incapable of creating the original magic exactly as it was. If Nintendo went SoC on this device, then count me in. Clearly, they have not, so my money stays in my wallet.

Edited July 15, 2016 by mstulir