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Centipede Trakball in the AA Shop


Andromeda Stardust

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If someone with access to both PAL and NTSC 7800s wants to buy one and give their feedback, feel free to share their findings. But I would not recommend anybody in PAL land be the guinea pig unless they have access to play on an NTSC system. Maybe someone can run the ROM in Prosystem emulator under PAL mode and give feeback...

 

The original NTSC centipede works on PAL systems very well. Only the bottom part has some random pixels since PAL systems display more lines than NTSC systems. So there is a good chance the trak-ball modified version behaves the same on PAL.

 

 

 

 

Most CX-80 behave the same as CX-22. Some were factory modded to be compatible with Atari ST. CX-80 are nicer build quality than CX-22.

A long time ago I modded my CX-80 that had CX-20 mode with a rotary switch so it could be switched between CX-20, Atari ST mouse and Amiga mouse modes (Amiga mouse mode has two wires swapped compared to ST mouse mode). I've no idea were I got the modification instructions (I can't find it on my disk) but I found one CX-80 to mouse conversion on the web.

 

Robert

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CX-22 differs from the pure Gray code natively output by the trackball encoder.

 

CX-22:

00,00,01,01,00,00,01,01

going in one direction, and

10,10,11,11,10,10,11,11

going in the other.

 

ST uses pure Gray code:

10,00,01,11,10,00,01,11,

going in one direction, and

00,10,11,01,00,10,11,01

going in the other.

 

The difference between these two encoding schemes is that the CX-22 replaces one of the Gray bits with a directional key that identifies the direction of the previous movement. You might also observe that by eliminating one of the Gray code bits, the precision of the CX-22 is decreased by half. This decreased precision one would think is a bad thing, but actually improves the reliability of the trackball when the encoder is actuated faster than the polling rate. The direction key bit ensures that the cursor cannot move backwards no matter how fast the trackball spins.

 

By contrast, the ST trackball will behave erratically if moved at a greater velocity than twice the polling rate. When the rotational speed exceeds the polling rate, one of the Gray code logical inputs is skipped. The trackball shifts between 00 and 11 or 10 and 01. With proper error detection logic, the movement can be inferred by software to have continued two ticks in the same direction as the previous movement. But once the movement exceeds twice the poll rate, the possibility that two ticks are skipped within a single poll. This results in a +3 signal which is identical to a -1. The cursor abruptly changes direction and will now continue to travel backwards as long as the trackball speed remains slightly above two ticks per poll.

 

So the decreased resolution of the CX-22 actually improves error correction. Spinning at velocity greater than the poll rate results in stuttering but never reversal.

 

The solution to converting from CX-22 mode to ST mode involves swapping the two "directional key" pins on the joystick plug with the native Gray Code. There is a buffer or inverter chip on the CX-80 or CX-22 PCB that convets the analog logic from the optical encoder into distinct digital I/O. All four Gray code signals go into some logic conversion process before being output as native CX-22 code. Since two of the joystick CX-22 signals are identical to the outputs of the inverter/buffer, it is only necessary to swap two wires rather than four. Thus, a common DPDT switch is all that is needed to swap these two signals and select CX-22 or ST modes. If your CX-80 came factory modded for ST mode, it should still be possible to reverse the modification or add a switch.

 

@rdemming Sorry I don't have schematics handy, but why don't you examine your old CX-80 and document the changes you made? ;-)

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If someone with access to both PAL and NTSC 7800s wants to buy one and give their feedback, feel free to share their findings. But I would not recommend anybody in PAL land be the guinea pig unless they have access to play on an NTSC system. Maybe someone can run the ROM in Prosystem emulator under PAL mode and give feeback...

 

As noted, most of the early 7800 games I recall as NTSC versions play pretty well on PAL 7800s. It's the later ones that usually have issues. I'm sure I checked this out many years back because I have a PAL and NTSC 7800, and the Cuttlecart 2 with both sets of original game ROMs loaded (and homebrews and everything else).

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Howdy folks. I'm a longtime AtariAge lurker and XM 'owner.' ;)

 

I just cleaned the dust and cat hair out of my CX-80, then I washed the ball with soap and water. Before doing so, the ball felt like roller skates on a rough sidewalk. It now feels nice and smooth, Centipede 7800(non-TB) conjures up those many games played on the arcade machine back in the 80s, even though I can only make squarish movements with the trakball in 'JS' mode. It's amazing the difference a thin coat of dust can make.

 

Although I like my arcade stick on the left, a trakball feels better to me when it is under my right hand. Unfortunately, this means that when rolling fast to the left, I find that the ball tends to lift up off of the L/R roller(which is located on the right side of the ball) and collides with the edge of the case bordering the ball, unless I take care not to start my leftward roll from the right side of the ball, and instead start from the center of the ball. I attribute this to the lower mass of the CX-80 ball when compared to the arcade. It's not a major issue, but it does seem wrong when it happens. I don't recall my Wico trak ball having this problem, although I can't check it at the moment as I've misplaced the Wico somewhere since the last time I played Yar's Revenge.

 

Does anyone else experience this? If so, have you tried to fix it, by adding a slippery bumper or additional small roller at some point along that left inside(internal) edge of the case?

 

I just ordered Centipede: TB and am looking to get the best experience possible.

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Howdy folks. I'm a longtime AtariAge lurker and XM 'owner.' ;)

 

I just cleaned the dust and cat hair out of my CX-80, then I washed the ball with soap and water. Before doing so, the ball felt like roller skates on a rough sidewalk. It now feels nice and smooth, Centipede 7800(non-TB) conjures up those many games played on the arcade machine back in the 80s, even though I can only make squarish movements with the trakball in 'JS' mode. It's amazing the difference a thin coat of dust can make.

 

Although I like my arcade stick on the left, a trakball feels better to me when it is under my right hand. Unfortunately, this means that when rolling fast to the left, I find that the ball tends to lift up off of the L/R roller(which is located on the right side of the ball) and collides with the edge of the case bordering the ball, unless I take care not to start my leftward roll from the right side of the ball, and instead start from the center of the ball. I attribute this to the lower mass of the CX-80 ball when compared to the arcade. It's not a major issue, but it does seem wrong when it happens. I don't recall my Wico trak ball having this problem, although I can't check it at the moment as I've misplaced the Wico somewhere since the last time I played Yar's Revenge.

 

Does anyone else experience this? If so, have you tried to fix it, by adding a slippery bumper or additional small roller at some point along that left inside(internal) edge of the case?

 

I just ordered Centipede: TB and am looking to get the best experience possible.

Try dropping in a numbered pool ball or regulation sized Pool Cue. Be advised coin-op pool tables generally use a 2-3/8 inch pool cue instead of a regulation 2-1/4 inch cue so the oversized ball will likely not fit. This is because the sorting mechanism in coin-op tables can return the Cue Ball in the event of a scratch. But please don't be a douche and steal from your local pub or pool hall. Most of them have pock marks out of them so you really need a new ball that's still got a smooth finish.

 

I ordered a standard regulation 8-ball from Pooldawgs.com but you can use any regulation 2.25" numbered ball or cue. The 8-ball is absolutely slick looking in my CX-80 and is a couple ounces heavier than the solid black ball it came with. I wouldn't buy anything fancy like stone cues though as that would likely accellerate wear of the rollers.

 

Also try to wash your hands before playing. Dirt and grime can build up on the rollers forming a paste with the oils from your skin. Cotton balls and alcohol will hel to remove this residue, and playing with clean hands will reduce the maintenence interval for cleaning the rollers.

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Try dropping in a numbered pool ball or regulation sized Pool Cue. Be advised coin-op pool tables generally use a 2-3/8 inch pool cue instead of a regulation 2-1/4 inch cue so the oversized ball will likely not fit. This is because the sorting mechanism in coin-op tables can return the Cue Ball in the event of a scratch. But please don't be a douche and steal from your local pub or pool hall. Most of them have pock marks out of them so you really need a new ball that's still got a smooth finish.

 

I ordered a standard regulation 8-ball from Pooldawgs.com but you can use any regulation 2.25" numbered ball or cue. The 8-ball is absolutely slick looking in my CX-80 and is a couple ounces heavier than the solid black ball it came with. I wouldn't buy anything fancy like stone cues though as that would likely accellerate wear of the rollers.

 

Also try to wash your hands before playing. Dirt and grime can build up on the rollers forming a paste with the oils from your skin. Cotton balls and alcohol will hel to remove this residue, and playing with clean hands will reduce the maintenence interval for cleaning the rollers.

 

That's definitely first, now on my list of things to try. Thanks. And you're right, I'd forgotten about the 'paste' that you can get with dust, etc. that goes beyond simple 'dust to surface adhesion.'

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That's definitely first, now on my list of things to try. Thanks. And you're right, I'd forgotten about the 'paste' that you can get with dust, etc. that goes beyond simple 'dust to surface adhesion.'

The "gunk" on trackball rollers is composed mostly of dead skin cells... :woozy:

 

Yeah it's not enough to simply clean the exterior. You really need to open the casing with a phillips and remove the nasty gunk off the three rollers. Just be sure to get it off completely or any remaining "lumps" can actually make the trackball feel worse. BITD when I had to use computer labs, the condition of the roller ball mice was deplorable most of the time. I paid $70 USD for a PS/2 Microsoft laser mouse in 1999 and was worth every penny. Arcade trackballs are a slightly different beast and fair better than mouse balls as the higher mass of the ball helps to maintain inertia, and as well the diagonal or "dummy" roller is rigid instead of spring tensioned.

 

Rubbing alcohol goes a long way to loosen the gunk which comes off pretty easy with cotton balls, and also doubles as a disinfectant. While you are inside, it wouldn't hurt to add a couple drops of silicone oil to the roller bearings (silicone oil is plastic safe; petroleum based machine oil isn't). Also check the optical encoder wheels are free of dust and debris. You may want to hit them with a CPU duster can.

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Well...now I finally have to get a trak ball.

 

"Centipede Trak-Ball will also work with many CX-80 Trak-Ball controllers as many of them operate internally as a CX-22."

 

Any way to tell which ones? Like, by serial number or something? Because the CX-80 is pure sex compared to the CX-22, and I'd much rather have an 80.

 

Even without POKEY audio, this version now kicks serious ass due to 2-player simultaneous action.

 

I can confirm that it'll work with a CX22 and a CX80 [one that operates like a CX22] at the same time. Mixed environmental play. It rocks. Buy it!!!

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http://atariage.com/forums/topic/243453-atari-2600-trak-ball-games/

 

= = = = = = = =

 

Really there are three TB standards: CX-22, ST, and Amiga. IMO "CX-80" mode is a misnomer and published hacks should drop this vernacular. CX-80 is either CX-22 or ST. There is no way to tell without opening it up or testing it in software.

 

CX-22 (joystick only, CX-22)

Wico Trackball (joystick only)

CX-80 (CX-22, ST)

ST Mouse (ST)

Amiga Mouse (Amiga)

 

First run CX-22 have no JS/TB switch and cannot be used in native TB mode. If you get a CX-22, make sure it has a mode switch. Ask seller if it has the switch before buying! Wicos and switchless CX-22s require internal modification to use in native trackball mode.

 

Most CX-80 behave the same as CX-22. A few were factory modded to be compatible with Atari ST. CX-80 are also nicer build quality than CX-22. ST mode trackballs also have double the spatial resolution of CX-22 mode trackballs due to the encoding algorithm.

 

Mice suck. Not arcade friendly. Fortunately most of the 2600 TB hacks have versions available for all three modes. Test the ROMs on a Harmony to make sure they work with your trackball before purchasing a cart!

 

 

You can add a Toggle Switch to the CX22s lacking the switch standard. BigO has done it before and it'll work just like a normal CX22 thereafter. Hit him up.

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Even without POKEY audio, this version now kicks serious ass due to 2-player simultaneous action.

 

I can confirm that it'll work with a CX22 and a CX80 [one that operates like a CX22] at the same time. Mixed environmental play. It rocks. Buy it!!!

 

If you have time to leave a review in the store for the game, that would be awesome. :)

 

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1067

 

Thanks!

 

..Al

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FWIW, the original unhacked Centipede will work with the Sega Sports Pad trackball and the EdLaddin Seagull 78 adapter...that's how I usually play it...

 

 

That's only working in joystick emulation mode. Just like using a CX22 or CX80 with the original commercial release of 7800 Centipede but with even less resolution.

 

 

For the record, commercial 7800 Centipede does have Trak-Ball support built-in for the unreleased GCC 7800 Trak-Ball which was a hacked-up version of the CX22. A design that would've been commercially unfeasible for 1984 according to Dan Kramer.

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I just got a nice, possibly never-used CX22 Trak-Ball and am itching to use it. I would be rather tempted to get the Centipede TB cart, but only if there were an option to get rid of that white border, which has always bothered me very greatly. I always thought it made it look like you're playing in a small room, and I have the same problem with Galaxian for the 2600 (although I think there is a hack that removes the yellow border). Also, I think I did see a hack of 7800 Centipede which enables trak-ball control AND gets rid of the white border, but I wouldn't be able to play that until I get a Concerto Cart, which I am awaiting patiently (any new news on that?)

 

 

A whole bunch are going to come out in cart form soon.

 

..Al

 

Any chance you could put them all on one cart and call it "Atari Trak-Ball Classiks?"

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I just got a nice, possibly never-used CX22 Trak-Ball and am itching to use it. I would be rather tempted to get the Centipede TB cart, but only if there were an option to get rid of that white border, which has always bothered me very greatly. I always thought it made it look like you're playing in a small room, and I have the same problem with Galaxian for the 2600 (although I think there is a hack that removes the yellow border). Also, I think I did see a hack of 7800 Centipede which enables trak-ball control AND gets rid of the white border, but I wouldn't be able to play that until I get a Concerto Cart, which I am awaiting patiently (any new news on that?)

 

 

Any chance you could put them all on one cart and call it "Atari Trak-Ball Classiks?"

Neat idea. But Albert stands to make way more money off cart sales if he releases them individually! :rolling:

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Trak-Ball games on cartridge are more desirable to me because of the difficulty selecting them on Harmony.

Plugging in a true trackball mode hacked cartridge with a Trak-Ball or Trak-Balls in trackball (TB) mode should allow you to immediately start playing.

 

You can play the hacks from Harmony, but:

 

1. The menu does not work with a Trak-Ball in true trackball mode.

a. Switching it to JS mode after starting Harmony with Trak-Ball in TB mode does not work.

 

2. Starting Harmony with Trak-Ball in Joystick (JS) mode will let you navigate the Harmony menu.

a. It is still erratic and will jump pages of menu entries, even if all you need to do is go up once to wrap to the menu's last entry and Start/Press Fire.

b. Then you need to remember to switch to TB mode during the loading spinner.

 

2. Both my 7800 machines are evil and will zap Harmony dead if:

a. Turned off and back on too quickly.

b. Selecting certain games it never comes out if the spinner and then becomes dead and needs re-flashed.

 

3. You can use the console switch Select to move down the harmony list, however:

a. The TB hacked game is usually at the bottom of the Harmony menu, (unless you run a sorting program). It can take a long time to use Select to get to the list bottom. (I do not know if there is a way to get select to move UP instead of DOWN.)

 

4. You can start Harmony with a joystick to easily navigate the menu:

a. Then you need to unplug the joystick and plug in the Trak-Ball.

Without using an extender cord, this stress can break the connector pins,

or break the solder from the pins to the circuit board.

 

I almost never use a mouse on computers.

As far as everyday home computing and the Apple computers where I work, since the mid-90s we have used Kensington Trackballs. You don't need to look or feel around to locate a trackball, it's always in the same place and does not move around which lets your hand move to it quickly.

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Just wanted to add this game is awesome. So far I've achieved a high score of 68194 on Novice (my first playtrhough), 19388 on Standard (after many rounds), 10861 on Advanced, and a paltry 3990 on Expert. Expert is just bat-shit crazy and Novice goes on forever. I seem to enjoy Standard the most out of the modes. It just feels right.

 

Then there gameplay modes for One Player, Two Player Alternating, Two Player Alternating (Share Trackball), Dual Player Competition, and Team Play.

 

That is a lot of options. Unfortunately, I have only one trackball and no friends to play with, so cannot test dual trackball modes. :sad:

 

That said, my fiance (who doesn't like video games) once promised me she'd play Centipede with me some time. This seems the best option so far for me to offer. I'll see if I cannot coax her into playing Centipede TB on Novice setting this weekend. Back when she was a teen, her cousin beat her in Pacman but she handed him his ass in Centipede. I've been trying to get her to play Centipede ever since she told me that story but she seems reluctant. :P

 

Other thoughts, this game doesn't feel quite as twitchy as the 2600 hacks I played earlier on my Harmony cart. Movement is smooth but doesn't blitz uncontrollably across the screen. Overall very nice, and worthy of a place in any self respecting 7800 fan's or trackball aficionado's collection.

 

And yes, the rectangle is still there. Not a deal breaker by any means but I see how it could annoy some gamers.

 

Trak-Ball games on cartridge are more desirable to me because of the difficulty selecting them on Harmony.

Plugging in a true trackball mode hacked cartridge with a Trak-Ball or Trak-Balls in trackball (TB) mode should allow you to immediately start playing.

 

You can play the hacks from Harmony, but:

 

1. The menu does not work with a Trak-Ball in true trackball mode.

a. Switching it to JS mode after starting Harmony with Trak-Ball in TB mode does not work.

 

2. Starting Harmony with Trak-Ball in Joystick (JS) mode will let you navigate the Harmony menu.

a. It is still erratic and will jump pages of menu entries, even if all you need to do is go up once to wrap to the menu's last entry and Start/Press Fire.

b. Then you need to remember to switch to TB mode during the loading spinner.

 

2. Both my 7800 machines are evil and will zap Harmony dead if:

a. Turned off and back on too quickly.

b. Selecting certain games it never comes out if the spinner and then becomes dead and needs re-flashed.

 

3. You can use the console switch Select to move down the harmony list, however:

a. The TB hacked game is usually at the bottom of the Harmony menu, (unless you run a sorting program). It can take a long time to use Select to get to the list bottom. (I do not know if there is a way to get select to move UP instead of DOWN.)

 

4. You can start Harmony with a joystick to easily navigate the menu:

a. Then you need to unplug the joystick and plug in the Trak-Ball.

Without using an extender cord, this stress can break the connector pins,

or break the solder from the pins to the circuit board.

 

I almost never use a mouse on computers.

As far as everyday home computing and the Apple computers where I work, since the mid-90s we have used Kensington Trackballs. You don't need to look or feel around to locate a trackball, it's always in the same place and does not move around which lets your hand move to it quickly.

Yes, selecting trackball hacks in the harmony menu is a PITA. Since the cables are a bit short for comfort, I just used an extension cable and hot plugged the trackball after booting the game.

 

Also I've never heard of Harmony needing a reflash after flicking the power switch on a 7800. My Harmony has taken a lot of abuse in both my 7800 and my 2600 and I have never needed to reflash it. I've only updated the firmware once since I purchased it in 2012. Maybe your Harmony cart is fickle.

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post-47453-0-00734100-1470956297_thumb.jpg

It arrived. Woohoo!

 

post-47453-0-59200200-1470956341_thumb.jpg

I modded my CX-80. The trakball feels nice, the extra weight definitely helps.

 

post-47453-0-77316200-1470956340_thumb.jpg

4 games in. It's great to be able to zip across the field to pick up spiders and zip back to continue zapping the 'pedes. The added precision gives me confidence to purse the fleas- sometimes leading to unnecessary deaths :P .

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attachicon.gifCentipedeTB-Centipede.JPG

It arrived. Woohoo!

 

attachicon.gifCX-80-eight.JPG

I modded my CX-80. The trakball feels nice, the extra weight definitely helps.

 

attachicon.gifCentipedeTB.JPG

4 games in. It's great to be able to zip across the field to pick up spiders and zip back to continue zapping the 'pedes. The added precision gives me confidence to purse the fleas- sometimes leading to unnecessary deaths :P .

Yeah the 8-ball just makes it look cool. I did mine also. I played a few more rounds last night. It's awesome...

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