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jbone09

Shill Bidding on eBay

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I'm getting really disgusted with the amount of shill bidding going on. eBay Doesn't give a crap about it either, even if you report the person, and it's blatantly obvious what they're doing. I've been bidding on retro games, since 2003. I think I'm going to give up eBay; start my own site. lol. Has anyone else noticed this, or had any similar issues with online auctions?

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The seller has multiple accounts and bids as the second person for the purpose of driving up costs of their items.

 

Nasty tactic, and unfair... But hard to prove and hard to enforce.

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Oh yeah. THe opposite. I'm amways smacking my head on the desk when I see peope lthat drop bids on an item 8 days before said item end.

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People still buying high

 

This is why Games are going up in price still, Stupid People are going like" Please take my Money I don't need it"

 

Sadly, it won't stop

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I see it happen on all kinds of different items. I think people understand the psychology behind people's desires to own material things and competition. Also, I think shill bidding is artificially inflating a lot of different markets on eBay.

Edited by adamchevy

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There's a LOT of shill bidding going on on MSX items. And once I'ce shown evidence of it on MRC (biggest forum) people were like "so what?". Umbelivable.

 

I've filled complains about a particular seller, Satopin, who managed to fool me two times. Shame on me.

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Nintendoage had a thread not too long ago discussing possible shill bidding by import-seller Yamatoku: http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?StartRow=1&catid=3&threadid=159912

It's weird.

Yamatoku is very famous so it's not unlikely that he attract more people than before. But I just bough items form his shops, and the most expensive stuff I got from his shop is a Laseractive Megadrive pad for... 16$. Which being a 6 buttons pads isn't even more expensive that if I bough it from a local.

 

I bough several PC-engine games and the most expensive I got are Parodius Da for 15$ and Detana TwinBee for 8$. Even Rockman 4 I got it for under 10$, so... I don't think that Yamatoku practice shill bidding, at least not on common item.

I also bough a Super Famicom for a friend, I got it for 7$. Granted it's a loose one with 2 pads only, but that's not even the price of most Super nintendo games here :D

 

Now, maybe Yamatoku practice shill bidding on high profile games and systems like PC Engine Duo RX and Castlevania on PC-Engine, but I think that it's simply the exposure to more customers that make price going up in his shop.

Edited by CatPix

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Well... shill bidding may be unethical, but it does NOT change what something is worth.

 

If a real buyer bids higher than a shill bid, then by definition, that real buyer decided it's worth the money, so that IS what it's worth.

 

If nobody bids higher than the shill, then the seller (aka "the shill") must buy his own item, and pay transaction fees. In this case, the seller loses the bluff.

 

If a person is relying on what they think someone ELSE is willing to pay to determine what something is worth, then that person is participating in a bubble, which will pop when they are the "last man standing".

 

You are best served by deciding what you are willing to pay before the bidding starts...and don't change your mind.

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I use esnipe regularly. I decide what's the highest reasonable price I'd be willing to pay, put in the bid to esnipe, and walk away. esnipe submits the bid with 6 or 7 seconds to spare.

 

Sometime I get the item, sometimes I don't, but at least I avoid all the emotion of a bidding war.

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Well... shill bidding may be unethical, but it does NOT change what something is worth.

 

If a real buyer bids higher than a shill bid, then by definition, that real buyer decided it's worth the money, so that IS what it's worth.

 

If nobody bids higher than the shill, then the seller (aka "the shill") must buy his own item, and pay transaction fees. In this case, the seller loses the bluff.

 

If a person is relying on what they think someone ELSE is willing to pay to determine what something is worth, then that person is participating in a bubble, which will pop when they are the "last man standing".

 

You are best served by deciding what you are willing to pay before the bidding starts...and don't change your mind.

 

Yeah, but there´s a catch.

 

Let´s assume there´s an item you like *and* not so many others. Some obscure, not very sough after imported sh*t.

 

So you set your mind: "I´m willing to pay 20 dollars for it". You can even set a sniping bid on it.

 

So the seller put a starting price of 1 dollar. Let´s say it even goes as high as 10 dollars "in normal bidding circunstances". In that case you migh end up paying 11 dollars for it, even if you were willing to pay more - and that is great for you.

 

But with shill bidding... The fake buyer might push you to your limit. You might end up paying those 20 dollars, or 19 dollars for the item. It´s within you set price range, right?

 

But somehow the seller managed to rob you 8 bucks. or 80%.

 

So... Sometimes you keep in your set path, pays within your budget, but still got robbed.

 

So: If the seller don´t want to sell an item for less than a set amount just put a reserve price on it. Otherwise that´s scamming.

Edited by lazzeri

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Yeah, but there´s a catch.

 

Let´s assume there´s an item you like *and* not so many others. Some obscure, not very sough after imported sh*t.

 

So you set your mind: "I´m willing to pay 20 dollars for it". You can even set a sniping bid on it.

 

So the seller put a starting price of 1 dollar. Let´s say it even goes as high as 10 dollars "in normal bidding circunstances". In that case you migh end up paying 11 dollars for it, even if you were willing to pay more - and that is great for you.

 

But with shill bidding... The fake buyer might push you to your limit. You might end up paying those 20 dollars, or 19 dollars for the item. It´s within you set price range, right?

 

But somehow the seller managed to rob you 8 bucks. or 80%.

 

So... Sometimes you keep in your set path, pays within your budget, but still got robbed.

 

So: If the seller don´t want to sell an item for less than a set amount just put a reserve price on it. Otherwise that´s scamming.

 

Your scenario makes zero sense. Who in their right mind would bid $20 on something that should only get bid up to $11? Hey to each their own but if something is only selling for $11 my max bid will be ..... big surprise $11

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Your scenario makes zero sense. Who in their right mind would bid $20 on something that should only get bid up to $11? Hey to each their own but if something is only selling for $11 my max bid will be ..... big surprise $11

I don't think I was clear enough. Let's try this:

 

You set a sniping bid of 20 dollars. The last "honest" bid was 11 dollars. A fake account pushed it to 19.

 

So... Normal auction, 11 dollars. Shill bidding, 19. You were willing to pay 20. Still inside your set price, but you were robbed.

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If nobody bids higher than the shill, then the seller (aka "the shill") must buy his own item, and pay transaction fees. In this case, the seller loses the bluff.

 

No, he doesn't. He either offers the item as a Second Chance Offer to the legit second highest bidder (and if I ever see one of these offered to me within 48 hours of the auction ending, I'm very suspicious), or he files a "non paying bidder" strike against the shill account and gets his fees back.

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From Wikipedia:

 

 

"Placing fake bids that benefits the seller of the item is known as shill bidding. This is a method often used in Online auctions but can also happen in standard auctions. This is seen as an unlawful act as it unfairly raises the final price of the auction, so that the winning bidder pays more than they should have."

 

I posted about a clear shill bidder in the auction forum.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/255617-shill-bidder/

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I bough several PC-engine games and the most expensive I got are Parodius Da for 15$ and Detana TwinBee for 8$. Even Rockman 4 I got it for under 10$, so... I don't think that Yamatoku practice shill bidding, at least not on common item.

I also bough a Super Famicom for a friend, I got it for 7$. Granted it's a loose one with 2 pads only, but that's not even the price of most Super nintendo games here :D

 

 

 

:-o Those are seriously low prices for those games. I have wanted both for a while. Damn!

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I don't think I was clear enough. Let's try this:

 

You set a sniping bid of 20 dollars. The last "honest" bid was 11 dollars. A fake account pushed it to 19.

 

So... Normal auction, 11 dollars. Shill bidding, 19. You were willing to pay 20. Still inside your set price, but you were robbed.

 

No you were fully clear. Normal auction sells for $11. I'm saying why in the hell are you willing to pay DOUBLE what it is worth. That shit's your own fault if you do that.

 

The difference here is you are assuming nobody else will bid higher than $11 and that may be true. However if the item Normally sells for $20 odds are not likely all the millions of people on ebay will just let that auction sell for $11. Realistically the ONLY way that auction is not getting bid over $11 is if the item is not worth over $11!

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They are loose, of course, but yeah, this is why I doubt that this shop practice shill bidding, most prices are crazy low compare to us. But shipping is a deal killer if you want to buy one item only.

I got the Super Famicom for 7$, but there is 70$ for shipping. (it's why I got games and accessories...I got 20 games and 4 pads, and the shipping amount to 80$ now).

Anyway, this is a bit off-topic :D

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Profiteering ruined ebay eons ago. When people started brokering on ebay in place of a real job, and started squeezing every nickel with underhanded tactics it started the downhill slide. Shilling, side-dealing, outrageous "handling" charges...just like everything else, the assholes ruined it for everyone.

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No you were fully clear. Normal auction sells for $11. I'm saying why in the hell are you willing to pay DOUBLE what it is worth. That shit's your own fault if you do that.

 

The difference here is you are assuming nobody else will bid higher than $11 and that may be true. However if the item Normally sells for $20 odds are not likely all the millions of people on ebay will just let that auction sell for $11. Realistically the ONLY way that auction is not getting bid over $11 is if the item is not worth over $11!

 

There´s a lot of links over here explaining this, even with examples. You should try those.

 

Specially when they mention "bid retractions", for instance. That might make it clearer to you.

 

The first post in this thread might be handy: http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?StartRow=1&catid=3&threadid=159912

 

And that´s not simply a matter of ethics or whatever: It´s stricly forbidden on ebay. http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

 

Edited by lazzeri

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Seriously dude come on.

 

This pretty much sums it up.

 

Well... shill bidding may be unethical, but it does NOT change what something is worth.

 

If a real buyer bids higher than a shill bid, then by definition, that real buyer decided it's worth the money, so that IS what it's worth.

 

If nobody bids higher than the shill, then the seller (aka "the shill") must buy his own item

 

Let them buy their own auctions.

 

DON'T bid in advance! Don't allow them to see your max bid. You honestly think a snipe program gives someone time to outbid you, then retract their bid in the last 5 seconds of an auction??

 

Everything you are saying is not correct. Most people don't bid $20 using a sniping program for an item that is only worth $11. Nobody can outbid you to find your max bid and then retract and bid you up in the last 5 seconds of the auction.

 

If you want to prevent shill bidding don't bid more than an item is worth! make them relist it.

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