Probabilitydragon Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 These are Zork I rev 88 atr’s (sides a and b) from atarimania. the atr’s boot fine, but the floppy duplicated from the atr starts to boot - gives no boot error or anything - but then freezes, all I see is a cursor and the machine becomes nonresponsive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmp Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 i'd try either test that process in altirra first to make sure it's supposed to work or copy that duplicated floppy back to an empty atr and then compare it with original atr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probabilitydragon Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Ok... that’s stuff I’m not familiar with - Altirra, and making atr’s from disks - only tried the other way. the process did work with duplicating the dos atr itself. But some glitch with the game atr’s. thanks for the advice - with my slow hobbyist learning pace, it might take me some time to figure out how to put the advice in practice, though ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmp Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 btw, it's not an OPTION key issue, right? (not sure if you're starting that atr with or without avgsio cable, starting it without the cable disables basic automatically (as if you were holding OPTION key)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Just to add to my earlier post: just a little while ago, I used Disk Wizard II to create a working floppy from the ATR I had made several years ago from my original ZORK I floppy disk. The new floppy boots up and runs just fine. So any issues are not likely to be due to any issues with copy-protection of the original disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Probabilitydragon said: I tried copying ATR’s to floppies mounting them on my AVGCART, then using DOS 2.5 to duplicate the disk on my 1050. I managed to make a copy of the DOS atr itself with J / duplicate. but no luck with ZORK I revision 88 atr’s. Wondering what might be the problem ? copy protection? How are you trying to read the ATRs off of the AVG Cart? Are you using a SIO cable from the cartridge to SIO port or just reading off the AVG Cart itself? I ask because, even though I don't own an AVG, I have tried to copy ATRs from a UNO Cart to disk and only met with limited success. Also, can you post the "Zork" ATR that you are using? I can see if I have any success in copying it to floppy using another method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Probabilitydragon said: I managed to make a copy of the DOS atr itself with J / duplicate. but no luck with ZORK I revision 88 atr’s. Wondering what might be the problem DOS 2.x J/ Duplicate disk option will only work for DOS 2.x disks - it only copies the sectors marked "in use" in the VTOC/Bitmap, so any "non-DOS" disk, which is probably the case for ZORK I - will not be completely copied. Use a full disk copier that reads every sector, such as Disk Wizard II mentioned by @DrVenkman or another one I like is MyCopyR! 2.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probabilitydragon Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 8 hours ago, Nezgar said: DOS 2.x J/ Duplicate disk option will only work for DOS 2.x disks - it only copies the sectors marked "in use" in the VTOC/Bitmap, so any "non-DOS" disk, which is probably the case for ZORK I - will not be completely copied. Use a full disk copier that reads every sector, such as Disk Wizard II mentioned by @DrVenkman or another one I like is MyCopyR! 2.1 That sounds like a good explanation. I wasn’t aware that duplicate in DOS 2.5 is’t exactly a complete duplicate feature. Will check the mentioned floppy utilities... in 2021. Happy New Year everybody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 8 hours ago, Nezgar said: Use a full disk copier that reads every sector, such as Disk Wizard II mentioned by @DrVenkman or another one I like is MyCopyR! 2.1 I like Disk Wizard II mostly because I’m used to it and know how it works. Does MyCopyR! allow for more than 2 drives? I’d love a copier that supports 3 or 4 drives and uses expanded memory for single-pass duplication of at least SD disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 For simple whole disk copying, you can also just use MyDos. It is Dos 2.x menu type dos and supports sector copying as well as ramdisks, hard drives, etc. It was sold and also bundled with the ATR8000. Not nearly so complete as SDX, but really easy to use. Here's a link to Mathy's site with several versions for download: http://www.mathyvannisselroy.nl/mydos.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probabilitydragon Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 I was able to create a duplicate of the disks / sides a+b of the game with Disk Wizard II. Boom! Thanks for all the kind advice! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 On 12/31/2020 at 9:48 AM, DrVenkman said: I like Disk Wizard II mostly because I’m used to it and know how it works. Does MyCopyR! allow for more than 2 drives? I’d love a copier that supports 3 or 4 drives and uses expanded memory for single-pass duplication of at least SD disks. Disk Wizard II is probably the best for archival purposes, as it will write what it was able to read from bad sectors. It does not support UltraSpeed like MyCopyR but that could be achieved by booting with a patched OS. MyCopyR indeed only supports 2 drives, and I can confirm that it will leave empty sectors when read errors are encountered at the source... But it will copy a single density disk in one pass on a stock 130XE, and a double density disk in 1 pass on a machine with 256KB or more. ED aways takes 2 passes at least for some strange reason. CopyMate 4.3/4.4 are kind of distant relatives to MyCopyR and are interesting becayse they can copy disks with a "standard" 810/1050 or "chicago" interleave in ultraspeed on a stock US Doubler with no track buffer by reading the sectors in an optimized non-linear order. I believe it also only supports D1 and D2 though. Sometimes for a quick disk copy without leaving SpartaDOS I'll use SCOPY - which is also handy as it can copy to a file for keeping a collection of disk images handy to write to floppies from my Side2 partitions without needing to invove the PC. But SCOPY has some interleave optimizations that can actually slow down the read/write speeds if the disks you are reading were formatted in a drive that doesn't use exactly Atari's original sector interleave, or ICD's ultraspeed interleaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Erg.... So I'm archiving some physical disks from a friend tonight , and I come across an enhanced density disk with a bad sector 1040.... It's a DOS 2.5 formatted disk, so presumably sector 1040 should be empty (as should all sectors 1024 through 1040) but the archivist in me wonders 'just in case' what might be on that sector... Anyhow - Using MyCopyR, it will just light up the bad sector 1040 as a ? and it will be skipped (=blank) on the resulting copy. Thought I'd try some other options.... EDDY v2.04 (20.Feb.2016) Thought I could just try to read sector 1040... but only detects it as a 720 sector disk (possibly due to SpartaDOS X limitations in reading DOS 2.5 disks) and I cannot enter or increment past sector 720... Disk Wizard II also only allows specifying 1-720 sectors, Single or Double Density. Anyone else know of other options that can attempt reading ED sectors and preserve the data read if it has an error? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Nezgar said: EDDY v2.04 (20.Feb.2016) Thought I could just try to read sector 1040... but only detects it as a 720 sector disk (possibly due to SpartaDOS X limitations in reading DOS 2.5 disks) and I cannot enter or increment past sector 720... It detects it as 720-sector disk probably because that is the PERCOM/STATUS information it gets from the drive. Anyway, Eddy has a function which allows to override this: press O, then it will ask you "Override sector [C]ount or Size?". So you press C and then enter 1040 at the prompt that follows. PS. Could anyone fix the AAge editor so that S in square backets would not enable "strikethrough" attribute? Edited January 2, 2021 by drac030 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 38 minutes ago, drac030 said: It detects it as 720-sector disk probably because that is the PERCOM/STATUS information it gets from the drive. Anyway, Eddy has a function which allows to override this: press O, then it will ask you "Override sector [C]ount or Size?". So you press C and then enter 1040 at the prompt that follows. Ah yes, I am using a 1050 with US Doubler, and indeed it reports an ED disk no differently than an SD disk in the PERCOM block. (returns 18 sectors per track, FM density) With a US Doubler, an additional "STATUS" command is needed to check for MFM mode. Since Stock Atari 1050 ROM does not support PERCOM block, does EDDY do a STATUS only if read PERCOM block fails? Thanks for the override tip - that will get me past my current hurdle. Edit: And since I'm here, I noticed when EDDY reads a bad sector and gets an Error 139, EDDY shows no data for the sector. Maybe a future version could show the data it received along with the error, similar how Disk Wizard II does it? In this case with a few read retries I was able to confirm 1 good read of the sector was all $00 bytes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 50 minutes ago, Nezgar said: Since Stock Atari 1050 ROM does not support PERCOM block, does EDDY do a STATUS only if read PERCOM block fails? It first sends STATUS, then PERCOM. If PERCOM fails, the density gets deduced from the previously received STATUS block. 57 minutes ago, Nezgar said: And since I'm here, I noticed when EDDY reads a bad sector and gets an Error 139, EDDY shows no data for the sector. Maybe a future version could show the data it received along with the error, similar how Disk Wizard II does it? First of all, ICD's SIO does not bother receving any data when it has got a negative data acknowledge (i.e. anything else than C before the data block). This has only recently been fixed, i.e. 4.49-release yet shows the old behaviour. So it hardly makes sense to show the buffer, maybe in a future release, when the next SDX version gets out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 minute ago, drac030 said: It first sends STATUS, then PERCOM. If PERCOM fails, the density gets deduced from the previously received STATUS block. OK.. so that explains why with ICD USD Doubler, STATUS says the disk is ED - then PERCOM says it is SD, so EDDY decides SD... Yes we can call this a design problem with the US Doubler, but this is the actual behaviour of this particular speeder, so maybe something for future consideration to accommodate in EDDY density detection... 5 minutes ago, drac030 said: ICD's SIO does not bother receiving any data when it has got a negative data acknowledge. Thanks - interesting I did not know this! Makes sense that Disk Wizard II would support bad data read using OS SIO handlers then. Looking forward to the updated Sparta+SIO drivers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, Nezgar said: Yes we can call this a design problem with the US Doubler, but this is the actual behaviour of this particular speeder, so maybe something for future consideration to accommodate in EDDY density detection... The question is, in the general case of conflicting information provided by STATUS and by PERCOM, on what principles I have to trust one more than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewKillerAmerica Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) Oh boy... I've been away for a while, and here I am trying to understand this. I apologize in advance for being so thick...but... I think I've screwed up enough here...I am also just trying to create some real floppy disks from .atr files. I have: Respeqt running on a Windows PC Lotharek's SIO2USB device and USB cable Many .atr files to mount w/ Respeqt Atari 800XL stock 1050 disk drive stock (edit) ...I'm just beating my head against the wall at this point. I can't seem to figure out what I'm screwing up. Thanks in advance for any replies / patience. Edited June 14, 2022 by NewKillerAmerica misspoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, NewKillerAmerica said: Oh boy... I've been away for a while, and here I am trying to understand this. I apologize in advance for being so thick...but... I think I've screwed up enough here...I am also just trying to create some real floppy disks from .atr files. I have: Respeqt running on a Windows PC Lotharek's SIO2USB device and USB cable Many .atr files to mount w/ Respeqt Atari 800XL stock 1050 DD stock ...I'm just beating my head against the wall at this point. I can't seem to figure out what I'm screwing up. Thanks in advance for any replies / patience. A mounted ATR is the equivalent of a disk drive and can be copied in the same manner, the most common is to use sector copy software. You list your 1050 as stock and DD which are contradictory, if it's stock it's only capable of single/enhanced density and if it's double density capable it isn't stock. The 1050 must be compatible with the size of the ATR you are trying to copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewKillerAmerica Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BillC said: A mounted ATR is the equivalent of a disk drive and can be copied in the same manner, the most common is to use sector copy software. You list your 1050 as stock and DD which are contradictory, if it's stock it's only capable of single/enhanced density and if it's double density capable it isn't stock. The 1050 must be compatible with the size of the ATR you are trying to copy. Hi Bill, I'm sorry, I meant "DD" to be "Disk Drive". I knew I was going to need some patience on this one from folks! I appreciate your response. Still don't understand. Edited June 14, 2022 by NewKillerAmerica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) Try Respeqt later revisions, select DISK, new disk image, select what kind of disk image you want, make sure once it's made and named you have it mounted as writable and then copy whatever you want to it etc. etc. you can use the respeqt cl or aspec cl to do the above as well if you want and automated batch file etc... or in APE try FILE, NEW DISK IMAGE select what you want create it rename it and make sure wen you mount it in a slot it's set as writable and then copy what you want to it.. each device or software package has it's own methods to create, mount, and make ATR's etc and write protect or unprotect them, it's all in their help systems, manuals or just requires a few click to figure out. Edited June 14, 2022 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewKillerAmerica Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said: Try Respeqt later revisions, select DISK, new disk image, select what kind of disk image you want, make sure once it's made and named you have it mounted as writable and then copy whatever you want to it etc. etc. you can use the respeqt cl or aspec cl to do the above as well if you want and automated batch file etc... or in APE try FILE, NEW DISK IMAGE select what you want create it rename it and make sure wen you mount it in a slot it's set as writable and then copy what you want to it.. each device or software package has it's own methods to create, mount, and make ATR's etc and write protect or unprotect them, it's all in their help systems, manuals or just requires a few click to figure out. OK gotcha! I've come that far now. Could you or anyone please describe how to configure the hardware now? I don't know how I should be hooking things up. Thank you very much for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 The main thing is to make sure you have every drive set to a different ID. I recently copies some ATR's to floppy's using SIO2USB and Respeqt. I booted Disk Wizard from D1 in respeqt. I had the source disk as D2 in respeqt and my 1050 was set as D3. There are of course many ways to set it up. I also made some copies of ATX files where I booted Super Archiver on my 1050 set as D1 and put the source ATX file as D2 in respeqt with The Chip emulation enabled. This was for copying protected disk image files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewKillerAmerica Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) Thanks very much for the replies so far. So, I’ve managed to load DOS3, and the duplicate disk option. I have my SIO2USB cable connected from the laptop to the 1050, and the 1050 daisy chained to the 800XL. So far so good. I have an ATR image in drive 1 in Respeqt. I then changed the switch on the back of the 1050 to set to drive 2. Followed on screen prompts, and chose 1, then 2. Then, get this error. Here is the laptop screen, and the Atari output. Any advice much appreciated. Edited June 14, 2022 by NewKillerAmerica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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