When did "re-capping" become a thing?

[SIO2]

 

What do you guys think? Should I replace those capacitors?

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by SIO2

[BassGuitari]

To answer the original question: ever since consoles started needing recapping, I guess.

[Keatah]

It's obvious, the parts that go bad are the parts that will be talked about and replaced.

[Keatah]

Seems like it's an issue for some systems in particular (gives side eye to NEC and Sega) which makes you wonder if they cheaped out to begin with on capacitor quality.

 

Sure. Most mfgs will use the cheapest parts that get the job done for whatever lifespan they're shooting for. You can get parts that reliably fail in 6 months, or 6 years, or 60 years.

[Keatah]

My motto has always been, "If it's not broke, don't fix it"

 

Unless you are starting to have issues with an item, it' may be best to leave things as is.

 

But keep an eye on things. So that you may avert a catastrophic failure, like a capacitor exploding or leaking..

 

[Keatah]

As such, reccapping a console is not only a reasonnable move for preserving it - by replacing the chemical caps by dry ones, you ensure that their shelf life extend for dozens of years : radio sets of the 1920's contain funny disc shaped mica capacitors, and those are still use-worthy as of now despite being almost 100 years old.

 

Those caps would never meet a modern mfg's bean-counter "efficiency" and cost standards.

[+5-11under]

"Capacitor Plague" 1999 to 2007:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

[Keatah]

I have replaced plenty of caps in audio gear... when they've gone bad. Most of the caps I've replaced have actually been perfectly fine, even after 50 years; it's just often hard to identify what cap is bad until you take them out (unless you have expensive equipment). So I've learned how durable these things really are. Of course caps go bad, but it's not like your game console's going to explode on some pre-determined date. I've never had one die because of a bad cap, ever.

 

I lost a PIII 850 to a bad capacitor. The cap stressed a voltage regulator which overheated and failed, taking the chip with it. The chip started running away, exploded, and shot bits of silicon out the back grille.

 

In many disasters there are a series of interconnected events leading up to failure. High-power electronics just love to cascade till there's a sudden release of energy. Then nothing.

The suspect capacitor was evil, it just sat there pissing and oozing on the motherboard. It was one from the 90's "espionage era".

[7800fan]

I have opened many Game Gears, all but one had caps going bad and had to be cleaned and recapped. The one that hasn't gone bad yet was the late issue Majesco model, it will likely need recapping.

 

Every TurboExpress and GT also has problem, it almost always starts with weak or dead audio in internal speaker. I have seen many black Duo that has gone bad.

 

Those consoles (plus Nomads) are among the worst when it comes to quality caps. It is not a "fad" to replace it, it is required if you want to keep it working another 20-30 years.

 

People who still have MISB unopened console are sitting on time bombs. If they don't open, the leaky cap will eventually eat and destroy the hardware and make it worthless inside the box, and it won't be "mint" anymore (plus the chance of leaking acid eventually staining and ruining box). But if they open it to fix the problem, it is no longer sealed in box.

 

Damned if you don't and damned if you do.

 

Other older consoles may eventually need recapping but generally they last longer. Just open the console and check for cap with bulging end, split top, black plug on bottom coming out, or discoloration on caps lead and on PCB. Replacing them before it happens is one good measure and a kit is $5-$10 for most consoles which is a cheap insurance. If you waited until it goes bad, cleaning and repairing damaged traces can take a few hours or longer. One TE I worked on was like 8 hours of cleaning and repairing, and made worse because no one has official schematic of TE or GT so I had to reverse engineer the audio and video circuit to fix all the ruined traces. It is also the main reason I do not offer TE repair service, too much trouble!!!

[CatPix]

 

Those caps would never meet a modern mfg's bean-counter "efficiency" and cost standards.

Certainly not, but the thing is, dry caps have a much longer life expectancy than electrochemical ones, and if you get decent ones and you pic up ones that are within specs and rated for a superior voltage, ensuring they rarely, if never hit their maximum voltage spike, then you are safe.

I mean, compared to the other components of a console, if you ditch chemical caps and replace them with solid/dry ones, then the worries about the system will move on the RAM and CPU/special chips, IMO.

Edited August 29, 2016 by CatPix

[SIO2]

 

Everyone has their own comfort zone. I am not as advanced as Dave so, I usually just replace only what is broken with as close to original part as I can get.

Edited August 29, 2016 by SIO2

[CatPix]

I was more thinking of replacing a 6V rated cap with a 10 or 25V cap, not more. Tho for larger appliances, you can; in old radios for example, caps were rated up to 1000V if they were on the tube circuits, and even in the audio circuits, that's the rare case were you can downgrade the caps to 600 or 400V (most tube circuits in radios use 250/275Volts at best.)

I heard stories of people needing to recalculate the values of replacement caps in old amps, because the chemical caps tolerance were so high, newer caps were out of the needed range for the desired output. Buuut that might be audiophile bullshit

 

Also, cheap caps (and caps that are to fail quick are of the cheap kind) usually have a huge tolerance range : it can range from -20% of the noted value to +50%. Yes, 50% more.

I mean caps aren't rocket science grade in consumer electronics so you should be fine if you stick to the indicated values anyway.

[7800fan]

You can use higher rated caps but they are also larger physically. You would need to balance between getting higher voltage caps and running out of room. With older consoles like Atari 2600 and Intellivision, you could probably get away stuffing a million volt caps inside. But with TE and GT and Game Gear, you are pretty limited because there isn't much room to begin with.

[Video]

When it became necessary. Some consoles are reliable like 2600 and gameboy. Some are shit like mastersystem and gamegear.

 

Honestly if your system isn't exhibiting issues or having obviously bulging caps id leave it alone. Especially older systems as what you are replacing it with will never match the quality of the original.

[Keatah]

That's right. It will exceed it.

 

Especially Panasonic and Nichicon low-ESR series.

[CatPix]

When it became necessary. Some consoles are reliable like 2600 and gameboy. Some are shit like mastersystem and gamegear.

 

Honestly if your system isn't exhibiting issues or having obviously bulging caps id leave it alone. Especially older systems as what you are replacing it with will never match the quality of the original.

 

Aside from the DIN A/V out desoldering on the Master System (and this is mechanical wear, not poor hardware), what are the issues on the Master System? I never heard of issues with it, and if you go ranting about the desoldered A/V connector, then you can blame the DMG Game Boy and his failing screen lines that you need to re-heat too.

Also while fixing my Gameboy, I noticed that the screen looked better if I bumped one of the caps around, so GB screens might also need recapping, it's just that black and white screen are probably mroe tolerant to aging caps than color ones.

Edited August 30, 2016 by CatPix

[Video]

Aside from one (out of 60 or so) I have never seen a working mastersystem. Granted it might not be a cap problem but neither is the gameboy screen. Its just the rubber contact between the mobo and screen...on the rare case that the Gb is suffering virtical lines and is fixed by simple cleaning. Ive seen far more gameboys in my days and only a few needed cleaning.

[CatPix]

Without further explanations, it's hard to point out a thing.

I never heard of a Master System issue, and Being in Europe mean that I can point to you either gamers from BITD and retrogamers that own a Master System (the system was sold up to the year 1996 here); if there was a mysterious Master System plague, we would know about it.

As I said, aside from the issue with the A/V connector, there is no specific and widespread ause of failure on the SMS.

 

If you wanna stretch if very very very far, the Master Base adapter for playing SMS games on the Megadrive DOES suffer from bad caps issues.

 

You can use higher rated caps but they are also larger physically. You would need to balance between getting higher voltage caps and running out of room. With older consoles like Atari 2600 and Intellivision, you could probably get away stuffing a million volt caps inside. But with TE and GT and Game Gear, you are pretty limited because there isn't much room to begin with.

That's in the case you replace chemical caps by other chemical caps. Today you can replace small chemical caps with dry ones that are usually smaller.

Edited August 31, 2016 by CatPix