tokra Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) While playing around with Intellivision/CC3 and LTO-Flash yesterday I ran into some problems with some games which first made me think my console was defective. Today I tried these games with two other Intellivisons I had and both showed the same problems. I then found out that some games just don't work on PAL-machines by browsing this forum: Motocross - crashes after the track-display Dreadnought Factor - crashes when starting or a few seconds later Dragonfire - the water on the first screen does not show correctly (just a glitch, game is playable) Empire strikes back - Apparantly has some music missing, I did not try this. Are there any other games that do not work on PAL-machines? Are there examples of games that don't work on NTSC, but just on PAL? Apparantly for Motocross there should be an "INTV"-version that works on PAL, but I cannot find this :-( Dreadnought Factor seems to be patchable by a .cfg-file, but is there a fixed ROM as wel? I could not find any info on fixes for Dragonfire or Empire strikes back. Have those been done? Edited September 11, 2016 by tokra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intvsteve Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Is your copy Dreadnaught Factor a .rom or a .bin? If you have the .bin+.cfg format, make a copy of your files - both the .bin and the .cfg. Modify the .cfg as detailed here. Add the "new" copy to your ROM list and menu layout. Put it onto your LTO Flash! and the patch will be applied for you. If you also want to have the patched .ROM for CC3, PM me and I can help you figure it out if the info at the link isn't sufficient. As to the other games -- not sure if there have been patches made -- or if it's possible to do so. But quite a lot can be done with those .cfg files for .bin-format ROMs by those with a deep understanding of the programming. I haven't heard of any games that work on PAL, but not NTSC. If anyone runs across such beasties, let me know! I'm trying to track that kind if info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intellivotion Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (...) Empire strikes back - Apparantly has some music missing, I did not try this. Are there any other games that do not work on PAL-machines? Are there examples of games that don't work on NTSC, but just on PAL? (...) Two different editions of SWTESB exist. The one released in Europe doesn't have the soundtrack, the one released in North America do. If you play on a PAL console a copy originally released in North America you will hear the sountrack. It is not a compatibility issue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intvsteve Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Two different editions of SWTESB exist. The one released in Europe doesn't have the soundtrack, the one released in North America do. If you play on a PAL console a copy originally released in North America you will hear the sountrack. It is not a compatibility issue I always wondered if they did that because the music is out of tune on PAL consoles, and they'd rather have no music than a bad-sounding Star Wars theme? Not that they did the greatest job with it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 If you want convert a ROM to BIN+CFG and back again, download SDK-1600 to get the bin2rom.exe and rom2bin.exe programs. Most tools in the SDK-1600 are for developers, but these 2 programs are easy if you know how to use a command-line. http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokra Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Ok, I've managed to convert Dreadnought Factor to PAL. Thanks. Still looking for Motocross-ROM for PAL (presumably the INTV-version). Is there an easy way to identify the PAL-comaptible Motocross-ROM-file. Seems kind of tiresome to try I copy I might find... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I always wondered if they did that because the music is out of tune on PAL consoles, and they'd rather have no music than a bad-sounding Star Wars theme? Not that they did the greatest job with it anyway. I think it's just a rights issue. They didn't have the rights to the music for the PAL version, for some reason, I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intvsteve Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 If you want convert a ROM to BIN+CFG and back again, download SDK-1600 to get the bin2rom.exe and rom2bin.exe programs. Most tools in the SDK-1600 are for developers, but these 2 programs are easy if you know how to use a command-line. http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/ The LTO Flash! UI also includes copies of the various tools, too. It uses them for various important bits of functionality. In Windows, they're in the 'tools' subdirectory where the app was installed. On Mac, they're inside the app bundle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intvsteve Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I think it's just a rights issue. They didn't have the rights to the music for the PAL version, for some reason, I suspect. Huh… Gosh, that does seem odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterZero Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 I think it's just a rights issue. They didn't have the rights to the music for the PAL version, for some reason, I suspect. Are the ROMs actually different? Does the PAL music just not start because of some timing glitch in the code? I would be interested if someone had done a diff on both ROMs. Is the music data and code contained in the PAL version? Is there some minor change that disables it from playing? It's possible that since the music would run slower on the 50Hz PAL console, rather than rework the program to play at the correct pitch and speed, they just disabled the music. Maybe Lucasfilm insisted that the music play at the correct pitch/speed? - J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) Are the ROMs actually different? Does the PAL music just not start because of some timing glitch in the code? I would be interested if someone had done a diff on both ROMs. Is the music data and code contained in the PAL version? Is there some minor change that disables it from playing? It's possible that since the music would run slower on the 50Hz PAL console, rather than rework the program to play at the correct pitch and speed, they just disabled the music. Maybe Lucasfilm insisted that the music play at the correct pitch/speed? - J They are two different ROMs. As SoulBuster said, I suspect they didn't have a license to play the music outside the US. Whether it was royalty reasons vs. fidelity of performance reasons, I have even less insight. Where the opening music would be is just a series of descending tones. It seems to be played at Game Over (?), whereas on the version with the Star Wars theme, it plays the Star Wars theme at that point. So, it was consciously removed and something else put in its place. Empire Strikes Back with music: . PSHR R5 ; 502A 0275 JSR R5, L_51F5 ; 502B 0004 0150 01F5 MVII #$0007, R3 ; 502E 02BB 0007 MVII #$0203, R4 ; 5030 02BC 0203 JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5032 0004 0118 007B STRING "PARKER BROTHERS" ; 5035 DECLE $0000 ; 5044 0000 MVII #$021A, R4 ; 5045 02BC 021A JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5047 0004 0118 007B STRING "PRESENTS" ; 504A DECLE $0000 ; 5052 0000 MVII #$0255, R4 ; 5053 02BC 0255 JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5055 0004 0118 007B STRING "THE EMPIRE" ; 5058 DECLE $0000 ; 5062 0000 MVII #$027C, R4 ; 5063 02BC 027C JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5065 0004 0118 007B STRING "STRIKES BACK" ; 5068 DECLE $0000 ; 5074 0000 MVII #$02CD, R4 ; 5075 02BC 02CD JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5077 0004 0118 007B STRING "Copr 1983" ; 507A DECLE $0000 ; 5083 0000 INCR R7 ; 5084 Skips the 'PSHR R5' below to play music @ title ; This routine plays the Star Wars theme, and is also called another ; place. (Game over?) L_5085: PSHR R5 ; 5085 0275 L_5086: ADDI #$002F, R1 ; 5086 02F9 002F MVO R1, G_0146 ; 5088 0241 0146 JSR R5, X_PLAY_MUS2 ; 508A 0004 0118 035D DECLE $006A ; 508D Note (short) DECLE $006A ; 508E Note (short) DECLE $006A ; 508F Note (short) DECLE $00B7 ; 5090 Note (short) DECLE $0127 ; 5091 Note (short) DECLE $0102 ; 5092 Note (short) DECLE $00F2 ; 5093 Note (short) DECLE $00D2 ; 5094 Note (short) DECLE $0177 ; 5095 Note (short) DECLE $0127 ; 5096 Note (short) DECLE $0102 ; 5097 Note (short) DECLE $00F2 ; 5098 Note (short) DECLE $00D2 ; 5099 Note (short) DECLE $0177 ; 509A Note (short) DECLE $0127 ; 509B Note (short) DECLE $0102 ; 509C Note (short) DECLE $00F2 ; 509D Note (short) DECLE $0102 ; 509E Note (short) DECLE $00D7 ; 509F Note (short) DECLE $0001 ; 50A0 Note (short) DECLE $0000 ; 50A1 End of music MVI G_01C7, R1 ; 50A2 0281 01C7 DECR R1 ; 50A4 0011 MVO R1, G_01C7 ; 50A5 0241 01C7 BPL L_5086 ; 50A7 0223 0022 PULR R7 ; 50A9 02B7 . Corresponding code from Empire w/out music. . PSHR R5 ; 502A 0275 JSR R5, L_51EC ; 502B 0004 0150 01EC MVII #$0007, R3 ; 502E 02BB 0007 MVII #$0203, R4 ; 5030 02BC 0203 JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5032 0004 0118 007B STRING "PARKER BROTHERS" ; 5035 DECLE $0000 ; 5044 0000 MVII #$021A, R4 ; 5045 02BC 021A JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5047 0004 0118 007B STRING "PRESENTS" ; 504A DECLE $0000 ; 5052 0000 MVII #$0255, R4 ; 5053 02BC 0255 JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5055 0004 0118 007B STRING "THE EMPIRE" ; 5058 DECLE $0000 ; 5062 0000 MVII #$027C, R4 ; 5063 02BC 027C JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5065 0004 0118 007B STRING "STRIKES BACK" ; 5068 DECLE $0000 ; 5074 0000 MVII #$02CD, R4 ; 5075 02BC 02CD JSR R5, X_PRINT_R5 ; 5077 0004 0118 007B STRING "Copr 1983" ; 507A DECLE $0000 ; 5083 0000 PULR R7 ; 5084 Return w/out playing music below ; Still called from the other place in the code (Game over?) L_5085: PSHR R5 ; 5085 0275 L_5086: ADDI #$002F, R1 ; 5086 02F9 002F MVO R1, G_0146 ; 5088 0241 0146 JSR R5, X_PLAY_MUS2 ; 508A 0004 0118 035D DECLE $0130 ; 508D Note (short) DECLE $0120 ; 508E Note (short) DECLE $0110 ; 508F Note (short) DECLE $00F0 ; 5090 Note (short) DECLE $00E0 ; 5091 Note (short) DECLE $00D0 ; 5092 Note (short) DECLE $00C0 ; 5093 Note (short) DECLE $00B0 ; 5094 Note (short) DECLE $00A0 ; 5095 Note (short) DECLE $0090 ; 5096 Note (short) DECLE $0080 ; 5097 Note (short) DECLE $0000 ; 5098 End of music MVI G_01C7, R1 ; 5099 0281 01C7 DECR R1 ; 509B 0011 MVO R1, G_01C7 ; 509C 0241 01C7 BPL L_5086 ; 509E 0223 0019 PULR R7 ; 50A0 02B7 . You can hear what that alternate "music" is in the Empire-without-music version by adding this to your .CFG file: . [macro] @P 5084 0F . Now back to the shrinkwrap mines for me... Edited September 12, 2016 by intvnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 It's actually SoulBazer. But I can see how that can happen with our usernames so similar. All I can say is, mine was first! And yes, I suspect copyright reasons cause I know TV and movie and music rights are VERY strange, and the laws operate different from country to country. Games for a long time were the same way -- One country would have rights to publish a game in Japan, for example, with another company having overseas rights. I've never seen anything saying this, but given how the two versions of the game play the same minus the different music, it makes the most sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intellivotion Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 It's actually SoulBazer. (...) where's the L...? ( ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 It's actually SoulBazer. But I can see how that can happen with our usernames so similar. All I can say is, mine was first! Oops, sorry! I was popping in quickly between rounds of shrinkwrapping. I think the fumes get to my head sometimes. And yes, I suspect copyright reasons cause I know TV and movie and music rights are VERY strange, and the laws operate different from country to country. Games for a long time were the same way -- One country would have rights to publish a game in Japan, for example, with another company having overseas rights. I've never seen anything saying this, but given how the two versions of the game play the same minus the different music, it makes the most sense. Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 where's the L...? ( ) Yeah, I typed this early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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