A 486 computer with PCI!

[ifkz]

I feel like I have won the vintage computing lotto! Short story: My 486 Compaq desktop arrived late last night and it has a single PCI slot mixed in with more period correct ISA slots. This means I can use any PCI video card with it, all the way up to my 3dfx Voodoo cards if I wanted.

 

Long story: I was inspired by LGR's Youtube 486 build, which got me to finally upgrade a 1993 vintage mini-computer I have owned for several years. I hunted down an ISA video card, a Soundblaster, more RAM and found that the mini-computer was, more or less, a 386. While I am grateful for this 386, it is not powerful enough for the older games I want to run. I decided what I really wanted was a 486DX class computer desktop that could be upgraded...

 

In addition to the PCI slot I also have PS/2 slots for the keyboard and mouse, which are a lot more common than AT style keyboards and serial mice.

 

I installed DOS 6.22 and I am looking for the BIOS partition creation tools (a simple function key at boot does not work on Compaqs of this era).

 

Does this mean anything to anyone else? I fully expected to be running an ISA video card, and I have read of the later and rare VLB standard, but never PCI. I have a 4MB Diamond PCI video card that I will be using for now (the 3dfx cards are all in use in my other vintage computers). What would a 3dfx Voodoo 5 PCI do on a 486?

Edited September 21, 2016 by ifkz

[CatPix]

Well I guess it was an economical PC so they used a cheap CPU and added a PCI slot for compability.

In the same vein, I have a motherboard from 1997, that feature an AT keyboard connection and AT power supply, no PS/2, BUT there is one USB connection

 

For Compaq, I know that BITD they had BIOSes on the hard drive on their laptops. Maybe on their desktops too? All I know is that if htere is no BIOS partition on the hard drive then well you won't have access to it of course.

The BIOS creation tools are still available on a FTP on Compaq/HP site, but they are hard to find, and they does not work under Windows 7/8/10 and I think that they doesn't work under Windows XP so you better get a Win9* or 2000 to create your BIOS partition floppy.

[Mitkraft]

FYI, its not that the BIOS was on the hard drive, just the utility manage settings in the BIOS. I worked for Compaq around 1999. We called the BIOS partition "F10" because that was what you held on boot to get to it. I didn't realize they were hard to find. I may have some laying around. I have a lot of software and hardware from back then but most of it is not very well organized. Also, you can manage the BIOS settings with an F10 floppy as well if it isn't on the hard drive.

 

I didn't realize there was becoming a demand for this generation of computers. I have some hardware laying around that I should see about selling.

[carlsson]

Will you only run MS-DOS? Then I doubt any Voodoo card adds much to your performance, as you probably need a different OS with suitable drivers.

 

The topic has been discussed elsewhere, a few links:

Fastest graphics card in a 486: http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=27710

Best CPU for 3dfx on a 486: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=46444

[ifkz]

Wow, that is strange configuration CatPix; related to that, AT keyboards are very rare to find in thrift stores now, I have not seen one in several years. I am still looking for a serial mouse for the 386 I mentioned, hopefully that will be a little easier to find.

 

The date codes on this 486 say it was made right before the Windows95 wave of Pentiums. What may have been a cost cutting move back then makes for the beginnings of a really nice DOS gaming system now.

[carlsson]

Based on the graphs on page 2 in the first thread on Vogons, a S3 VirgeDX 4 MB or a Matrox Millennium 2 MB would equal or outperform a Voodoo 3 16 MB.

[ifkz]

Yes, it seems like my simple Diamond 4MB PCI will be just fine for this build, much better than the 2MB ISA Diamond Speedstar I was considering (which will now go to the 386 mini-computer). Nice to see some experimentation with 3dfx cards in DOS on the vogons forum posts, good reading!

 

Also, thanks for the F10 floppy disk idea. I searched around HP's support site and found a few links; it will be nice not to have to wipe, re-install, and partition the drive assuming I can figure out how to get it on a floppy.

 

This Compaq is also getting an AWE sound card to make the ultimate version of what is very similar to my first computer.

Edited September 21, 2016 by ifkz

[boxpressed]

I feel like I have won the vintage computing lotto! Short story: My 486 Compaq desktop arrived late last night and it has a single PCI slot mixed in with more period correct ISA slots. This means I can use any PCI video card with it, all the way up to my 3dfx Voodoo cards if I wanted.

 

Long story: I was inspired by LGR's Youtube 486 build, which got me to finally upgrade a 1993 vintage mini-computer I have owned for several years. I hunted down an ISA video card, a Soundblaster, more RAM and found that the mini-computer was, more or less, a 386. While I am grateful for this 386, it is not powerful enough for the older games I want to run. I decided what I really wanted was a 486DX class computer desktop that could be upgraded...

 

In addition to the PCI slot I also have PS/2 slots for the keyboard and mouse, which are a lot more common than AT style keyboards and serial mice.

 

I installed DOS 6.22 and I am looking for the BIOS partition creation tools (a simple function key at boot does not work on Compaqs of this era).

 

Does this mean anything to anyone else? I fully expected to be running an ISA video card, and I have read of the later and rare VLB standard, but never PCI. I have a 4MB Diamond PCI video card that I will be using for now (the 3dfx cards are all in use in my other vintage computers). What would a 3dfx Voodoo 5 PCI do on a 486?

 

Congrats, nice find. One of my favorite motherboards is a 486-class board with 3 PCI slots and 1 VLB slot. It is slower than VLB-only boards, but it is perfect for a test bench.

 

As for video, your V5 will need at least Windows 95 to run most of the games designed for Glide, and it may not even be compatible with your hardware. A PCI V5 is rare and valuable because people pair it with an AGP card like a Geforce to get the best of both worlds.

 

If you're going to stay in the realm of 486 games, get an S3 card: a Trio64 or a Virge. They are the most compatible with DOS games. They are also quite inexpensive. Your Diamond card may have an S3 processor. If you have an S3 Virge (not Trio64), you can even play some hardware-accelerated games from DOS, such as Descent II. I've had spotty luck with ATI and Matrox cards.

 

Check out vogons.org, if you haven't already. It's the best site for talking about retro x86 PCs.

[ifkz]

Thanks boxpressed, will do! I am still waiting on my Soundblaster Vibra16 to arrive and then I can finish the mini 386 computer and start on upgrading this 486, hopefully I can get some benchmarks and pictures this weekend after both are finished.

Edited September 21, 2016 by ifkz

[Mitkraft]

If you use something like Partition Magic or BootIt NG you can create space for an F10 partition without having to wipe the drive.

[boxpressed]

Thanks boxpressed, will do! I am still waiting on my Soundblaster Vibra16 to arrive and then I can finish the mini 386 computer and start on upgrading this 486, hopefully I can get some benchmarks and pictures this weekend after both are finished.

 

You may already know this, but most SB16 Vibras use Creative's proprietary CQM chip for FM synth music instead of Yamaha's OPL3. There are some Vibras that do use the Yamaha chip, however. Most people prefer the Yamaha sound, but some don't care one way or the other, especially if they use General MIDI for game music.

[CatPix]

FYI, its not that the BIOS was on the hard drive, just the utility manage settings in the BIOS.

Yes, of course since there is a POST and all that; it just mean that with my Armada 1600 laptop, the HDD is dead, so now I can't replace it since I can't access the BIOS utilities to tell him about the new drive..

 

 

Wow, that is strange configuration CatPix; related to that, AT keyboards are very rare to find in thrift stores now, I have not seen one in several years. I am still looking for a serial mouse for the 386 I mentioned, hopefully that will be a little easier to find.

It is indeed an odd one. I also forgot to mention that it come with two EDO and two SDRAM slots. Sadly when I got it only the SD-RAM slots were populated, no 64Mo sticks of EDO for me

Edited September 21, 2016 by CatPix

[ifkz]

 

You may already know this, but most SB16 Vibras use Creative's proprietary CQM chip for FM synth music instead of Yamaha's OPL3. There are some Vibras that do use the Yamaha chip, however. Most people prefer the Yamaha sound, but some don't care one way or the other, especially if they use General MIDI for game music.

I was reading about that, I tried to get an older 1994 Vibra with the Yamaha OPL, tracking says it is in my mailbox when I finally get home tonight. There were "2 available" so I'll see if the seller read my note saying..."hey, I want the one in the picture!"

 

My soundcard problem is going to be the Plug 'n Play standard, the AWE64, and interfacing it with DOS. I found a youtube video on the topic and DOS installations, it appears I will need to install the PNP driver and then proceed with a normal DOS soundblaster install.

[Mitkraft]

Yes, of course since there is a POST and all that; it just mean that with my Armada 1600 laptop, the HDD is dead, so now I can't replace it since I can't access the BIOS utilities to tell him about the new drive..

 

 

Sure you can, you just need the floppy F10. Armada is where I spent most of my time at Compaq so If you can't figure out how to replace the drive send me a PM and maybe I can help. I might even have the appropriate F10 floppy image somewhere but it would take some digging to find since it would be on a foppy or CD somewhere with all my other old software I mean to go through some day. Btw, I'm having trouble remembering which model the 1600 is, are you sure that's not a Presario?

Edited September 21, 2016 by Mitkraft

[CatPix]

My bad, it's an Armada 1700, not 1600. And I do not have this F10 floppy so without it and without the original hard drive I cannot use it anymore, that's what I meant!

If I can manage to create the floppy I'll be probably fine however, it's not rocket science.

[ifkz]

My bad, it's an Armada 1700, not 1600. And I do not have this F10 floppy so without it and without the original hard drive I cannot use it anymore, that's what I meant!

If I can manage to create the floppy I'll be probably fine however, it's not rocket science.

If ya'll figure out how to make the F10 floppy can you post some simple instructions? It looks like I will also need one for this Compaq Prolinea 450

[Mitkraft]

If ya'll figure out how to make the F10 floppy can you post some simple instructions? It looks like I will also need one for this Compaq Prolinea 450

 

I've never downloaded from this particular website before so I would proceed with caution and scan anything you download there for viruses but this appears to be the software you need:

 

https://us.driverscollection.com/?file_cid=4474345873865ffd9c02a7718d4

 

You would need to run it on a PC with a floppy drive and make a floppy disk that you would boot your Compaq with.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Mitkraft

[ifkz]

 

I've never downloaded from this particular website before so I would proceed with caution and scan anything you download there for viruses but this appears to be the software you need:

 

https://us.driverscollection.com/?file_cid=4474345873865ffd9c02a7718d4

 

You would need to run it on a PC with a floppy drive and make a floppy disk that you would boot your Compaq with.

Thanks Mitkraft, I will try it out as soon as I tear it apart and replace the dead BIOS battery with a CR2032 and a holder...then the fun can begin.

Edited September 21, 2016 by ifkz

[The Usotsuki]

My old 486DX5 tower had PCI slots and ISA slots. Of course, 486DX5 was a Pentium-era chip.

[boxpressed]

I was reading about that, I tried to get an older 1994 Vibra with the Yamaha OPL, tracking says it is in my mailbox when I finally get home tonight. There were "2 available" so I'll see if the seller read my note saying..."hey, I want the one in the picture!"

 

My soundcard problem is going to be the Plug 'n Play standard, the AWE64, and interfacing it with DOS. I found a youtube video on the topic and DOS installations, it appears I will need to install the PNP driver and then proceed with a normal DOS soundblaster install.

 

Perhaps the video on the AWE64 you saw was this one:

 

If so, you've found Phil's great Youtube channel. All of the information on Phil's channel is solid. LGR is great and a lot of fun, but Phil is a true expert. Be careful: the videos will make you want to buy lots of retro PC equipment!

[ifkz]

 

Perhaps the video on the AWE64 you saw was this one:

 

If so, you've found Phil's great Youtube channel. All of the information on Phil's channel is solid. LGR is great and a lot of fun, but Phil is a true expert. Be careful: the videos will make you want to buy lots of retro PC equipment!

Yes, it was Phil's videos that helped me figure out the installer I was missing to get these plug 'n play cards going in pure DOS, and you are right, I enjoy both Youtube channels. My AWE64 is the regular non-gold version, hopefully I didn't make a bad purchase.

 

I think I am set on older hardware that I am interested in: 386 upgraded, check! 486 desktop, check! 486 laptop, check! Even though I had a 586, and all of the Pentiums at one point, I am most nostalgic about this earlier era, the closest afterwards is with the 3dfx cards in and around 2000.

 

I am dying to get out in the garage and swap out the dead BR2032 battery and replace it with a proper holder in this Compaq Desktop. Need to make some time! Once everything is together I will look into some of the benchmarking tools Phil mentioned.

 

After a new video card (the Diamond ISA) and Soundblaster my 386 jumped to 59-60 in TopBench, about the level of a 386-33sx. Doom was still mostly unplayable at high detail and a large window size, but it was nice to finally complete the overall project and hear this machine "sing" with the Vibra soundcard!

[82-T/A]

I feel like I have won the vintage computing lotto! Short story: My 486 Compaq desktop arrived late last night and it has a single PCI slot mixed in with more period correct ISA slots. This means I can use any PCI video card with it, all the way up to my 3dfx Voodoo cards if I wanted.

 

Long story: I was inspired by LGR's Youtube 486 build, which got me to finally upgrade a 1993 vintage mini-computer I have owned for several years. I hunted down an ISA video card, a Soundblaster, more RAM and found that the mini-computer was, more or less, a 386. While I am grateful for this 386, it is not powerful enough for the older games I want to run. I decided what I really wanted was a 486DX class computer desktop that could be upgraded...

 

In addition to the PCI slot I also have PS/2 slots for the keyboard and mouse, which are a lot more common than AT style keyboards and serial mice.

 

I installed DOS 6.22 and I am looking for the BIOS partition creation tools (a simple function key at boot does not work on Compaqs of this era).

 

Does this mean anything to anyone else? I fully expected to be running an ISA video card, and I have read of the later and rare VLB standard, but never PCI. I have a 4MB Diamond PCI video card that I will be using for now (the 3dfx cards are all in use in my other vintage computers). What would a 3dfx Voodoo 5 PCI do on a 486?

 

Compaq offers ALL of those original BIOS tools on their website; however, it's a huge pain to find. Type out the FULL name of the computer... like Compaq Presario 4600 DC (just made that up) and search for the shortcut that goes to HP's website. Look under BIOS tools, and you'll be able to download the configuration management tool.

 

It's not a walk in the park. You'll need to download them off the internet, and then run it in non-Windows NTFS DOS so that it'll write to original 3.5" floppy disk images. Then you have to go to the computer in question and you have to completely wipe the existing partition using a boot disk with FDISK on it. Then take the new utility disks you burned to the computer in question, and run the tool. It'll reboot a couple of times so it creates the special partition.

 

Unfortunately, you cannot already have stuff on the computer first (did this too). It won't create the special partition until the drive is totally wiped with no partition on it at all.

 

 

Let me know if that doesn't make sense. I just through this on a DeskPro 566... which is just a little bit newer than yours.

[ifkz]

 

Compaq offers ALL of those original BIOS tools on their website; however, it's a huge pain to find. Type out the FULL name of the computer... like Compaq Presario 4600 DC (just made that up) and search for the shortcut that goes to HP's website. Look under BIOS tools, and you'll be able to download the configuration management tool.

 

It's not a walk in the park. You'll need to download them off the internet, and then run it in non-Windows NTFS DOS so that it'll write to original 3.5" floppy disk images. Then you have to go to the computer in question and you have to completely wipe the existing partition using a boot disk with FDISK on it. Then take the new utility disks you burned to the computer in question, and run the tool. It'll reboot a couple of times so it creates the special partition.

 

Unfortunately, you cannot already have stuff on the computer first (did this too). It won't create the special partition until the drive is totally wiped with no partition on it at all.

 

 

Let me know if that doesn't make sense. I just through this on a DeskPro 566... which is just a little bit newer than yours.

 

Wow that does sound like trouble. The only advantage (I can think of) to getting into the BIOS is setting the boot order of the drives, but I do not plan on running any flavor of Windows, so it might be unnecessary. I can correct the date/time from DOS using the command line. Humm...

 

My main roadblock with this machine is getting the old, dead, BIOS battery switched out (which requires a complete hardware disassembly), then I can finally start loading it up with more than just a basic DOS installation. The weather has cooled off here in Texas, so I hope to dive into it after work this week. After that I can load it up with my AWE, Diamond 4MB PCI, UniVBE, and 'Heretic-Shadow of the Serpent Riders' and have a blast.

[82-T/A]

 

Wow that does sound like trouble. The only advantage (I can think of) to getting into the BIOS is setting the boot order of the drives, but I do not plan on running any flavor of Windows, so it might be unnecessary. I can correct the date/time from DOS using the command line. Humm...

 

My main roadblock with this machine is getting the old, dead, BIOS battery switched out (which requires a complete hardware disassembly), then I can finally start loading it up with more than just a basic DOS installation. The weather has cooled off here in Texas, so I hope to dive into it after work this week. After that I can load it up with my AWE, Diamond 4MB PCI, UniVBE, and 'Heretic-Shadow of the Serpent Riders' and have a blast.

 

Most of those Compaqs have a separate "external battery" adaptor that you can plug in a separate battery. There's also a "jumper" which you can change that will allow you to select between using the (dead) factory battery, or an aftermarket secondary battery.

 

If you haven't gone too far already with installing stuff on that computer, then I'd recommend going forward and just installing the diagnostics. There's probably some other stuff in there that you can configure. Once you do it, you no longer have to worry about it.

[ifkz]

Real life got in the way, but I finally completed the hardware work on this 486DX-50: installation of a battery holder went well, the BIOS is saving settings and my cards are installed and working in DOS. I was also able to get CD-ROM support going and I installed Doom and Duke Nukem 3d. Doom runs full screen at high detail fairly well, and the soundtrack with the AWE (Yamaha OPL) sounds great! The real surprise is Duke3d, with the VESA modes and a higher resolution, it performs almost on par with Doom, fairly speedy at 320x400 and only a two window sizes down from full screen. The video card really makes a difference. Perhaps there is a DOS version of Doom that supports VESA?

 

Another surprise: The stickers on the interior of the case say I can upgrade this to a DX4 CPU.