Sheddy Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 To talk of "dissonance" using POKEY for creating music, is to ask people, if a volcano is hot. The "dissonance" can be reduced but never disabled. Depending on the "unsharp" 8 bit resolution, "talking of harmonics" is also useless.It's also a method of doing a broader sound, to keep things slightly detuned. Also, tunes that were based on "A" have a better response than tunes that base on "A#" ... so how to get a common base ? It would be nice to have some real musician around. But that's also an inversion ... because it would imply to have a musical environment available. And, instead of creating working harmonics, some "clever guy" comes around the corner, turning things back to the false... Indeed there are Pokey limits, but only slightly out of tune harmony is better for most people than way out of tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony Perception section may be interesting for why most people don't prefer dissonance (out of tune) over instrument type or "flavour" of sound. This was an interesting read but points in this case into the wrong direction. We are talking about a conversion job here and not creative work when somebody is free to compose what he wants. He just tortured our ears with a totally failed conversion which was regarding to source material quite ok (otherwise I wouldn't be able to fix it so easily!). Just for you emkay: This is my last post in this thread, I promise! Your argumentation is not even useless, it's just silly. ... And, as long as you plan only to nag on my experiments, without similar comments on other's works, so please stick your dumb comments into the center of your butt. ... It's "How" "Irgendwer" posts, not the critisism. Discrediting me may help you to come over your cognitive dissonance, but doesn't change the facts: ... Really, I 'm thinking of doing some optimisations .... in the volume ... which is the main problem. ... BS ... Some tunes work well, some tunes drop exactly into the trap of the given limits. At least questionable in this case. ... A notation row played wrong does not make your ears bleeding? ... It does obviously. ... The tune cannot be done better there. BS About changing notes.... The tune is the real "Star Trek" tune. Changing parts of it, makes it "not real" anymore. BS The conversion was simply rubbish and deserves to be called so. Why anybody should discuss with you about POKEY, RMT, Altirra or whatever limitations when you are not able to detect the major problem that your port mixed different scales? Yes, POKEY has it limitations and frequency derivations and sometimes tends to cancel or distort sounds. But these problems are light years away from the problems you introduce in the conversions you consistently publish here. If a sound is 10Hz off, putting it dis harmonic 1234Hz away to make an "other problem" more apparent isn't the solution, it is just crap. BTW: Blaming RMT, other people for bad conversions or pretending POKEY limitations isn't a solution neither. Think about your own restrictions first! You handed a tenor and alto flute to musicians, supplied the wrong scores and complain about their breathing technique. I many ways you have a perception problem, which would be not bad on its own. Like non-swimming would be. But applying as a life guard then is - and telling other life guards at the water-line that they have to take care to keep their clothes dry is. You take very often the opportunity to let others know how bad their work is and aren't able to admit that you more than once failed miserably. I don't like you attitude. You are resistant to learn and listen! ... It would be nice to have some real musician around. ... "flashjazzcat" e.g. is, you successfully scared him off. I'm too, and like him, I must return to planet Earth now... (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/245122-pokeys-15khz/page-4?do=findComment&comment=3378267) Edited April 24, 2017 by Irgendwer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) Such is the situation for all compositions.... it is a a matter of math.. and ear... that is why music is indeed an art form. All instruments have limits and interact with each other, format electronic or not does not matter. The arrangement matters. How the different instruments build on one another and interact matters. You know what pokey is, work with it and it's interactions and you get a fine musical production. Consider it a temperamental multi-phasic instrument, a synthesizer requiring constant adjustment. We constantly tune our instruments while playing on stage or off. What do you thing marching band do? Orchestra? Stage bands? Watch the guitarist turn that peg, the brass adjust their slides, and on and on.. done in real time during performance/recitation! And yes synthesizers did and some still do have pitch adjustment which if the temperature of moisture has affected the rest of the band, a good keyboardist will adjust as well, live. Truth, it is a horrible port. it is off in so many respects... perhaps take the that sheet crumple it up and start again. Making your own and not using sections that tuned separately and were pushed on stage having and then play parts keyed in unrelated scales Edited April 24, 2017 by _The Doctor__ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) emkay, have you compared your version with the adjusted version of irgendwer? I'm not talking about the sound of each instrument (which you call squealing, which is what my GF calls ALL the chiptune music I play around here ) but I mean how he transposed certain parts (or voices, or channels) so they sound in harmony? Note there's a difference between harmony and harmonics. Harmony, or lack thereof, is why others like or dislike your conversions. Harmonics, or partials (disharmonic overtones), is why you like or dislike certain instruments. Why don't you take Irgendwer's transposed RMT and apply your instrumentation? Let's see how that works out The point that's discussed here now, is the essence of why not more people like your conversions. I think most of us (I do!) appreciate the work you do on instruments. There are a lot of interesting sounds you are able to produce! But unless they play in harmony to eachother, it doesn't matter much that your instruments are better than others (less disharmonic overtones and/or interaction with other instruments due to pokey's nature). [edit: clarifications] Edited April 24, 2017 by ivop 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) Indeed there are Pokey limits, but only slightly out of tune harmony is better for most people than way out of tune. What's wrong with people who like "slightly wrong pitch music? (Possibly too much Electric Guitar sounds in their childhood ? and all those distorted sounds broke their eardrums? ) Accumulating the false pitch on and on is like toothaches getting stronger and stronger. To prevent from that, a musician has to find the "release" for that. If this accumulating and releasing changes to get a "zero" mix (as would be at perfect notation frequencies), one can get some fun there. Edited April 25, 2017 by emkay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheddy Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Maybe,Lol @Ivop Exactly. Music harmony, actual fundamental frequency pitches relative to each other,rather than instrument harmonics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheddy Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 (edited) Deleted dupe Edited April 26, 2017 by Sheddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 11, 2017 Author Share Posted May 11, 2017 Music harmony, actual fundamental frequency pitches relative to each other,rather than instrument harmonics. That's particular the problem with POKEY's 8 bit resolution. It's almost impossible to get notations correct to their frequency pitches. The only solution is to use some "Chord in Dur". Either use the straight pitch similarities on all available channels and get wrong "note relations " in the "musical" row, which isn't allowed in any music, except POKEY tunes.....??? OR, use always a slight "Chord in Dur" , to get always a "good relation" in the musical/notation row, sounding a bit sour, which is an official "music style" , but not allowed on POKEY??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 slight "Chord in Dur" , to get always a "good relation" in the musical/notation row, sounding a bit sour, which is an official "music style" , IS allowed on POKEY!!!!! but the key word is SLIGHT! You also might get away using the other chips to support your sounds... GTIA etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 It's about POKEY music, and what's possible. This one is almost as I want it.... Smell the SNES sound? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Thanks to Hollywood, now I have some example, why I dislike most of the Atari tunes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 Found again some time for experiments .... sometimes I like it sometimes I hate it. But it's still RMT 50Hz VBI.... and so on... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 8, 2017 Author Share Posted October 8, 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Again something more experimental... not much progress there as the timing still isn't stable. What's the newest POKEY DLL emulation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 Using just one POKEY on a stock Atari at one VBI programming doesn't seem cool enough... Hm... I know, this one doesn't need 2 POKEYs and a lot of CPU... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 LOW CPU usage.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 LOW CPU usage.... Ok. How about a challenge? Over 5200 tunes in the ASMA. And I claim that this tune has the best "Sid" voice and fitting tune of all of them. Now anyone may feel free to disprove it ... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Hmmm.... "best SID voice" seems to be the wrong term .... as "most beautiful and musically fitting" .... could fit better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Ok. How about a challenge? Over 5200 tunes in the ASMA. And I claim that this tune has the best "Sid" voice and fitting tune of all of them. Now anyone may feel free to disprove it ... Your best work by far. I'd buy you a stein of beer for this 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 LOW CPU usage.... Xex please... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 Your best work by far. I'd buy you a stein of beer for this It's just about to learn what to do with the available resources. Using filter and the resulting modulations means to do stuff here and there and to let the thing run for the good The 8 bit resolution needs to get tricked. As the pitch is always slightly off, the "off" changes from octave to octave on the same note. Using that in right placed arpeggios, helps to follow the better resolution of two joined channels. Usually, note Arpeggios have been used in most tunes ( 0 3 8 for example) but that's not the same type. After all, even the 8 bit bass sounds seem to sound more in tune... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 hmmm.. again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 Some chinese sounds 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 Hmmm 2 Using different styles but keep the sense of the tune ... I should try some other arrangement 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Regarding 'Hybris' - this first came out for the Amiga - that I can recall ... I thought it was brilliant back then - and I don't think it got the rave reviews it should have... though it was a standard shooter then... Being a SNES fan - I can't recall it being out for the SNES - so maybe it was out for the Genesis? I was into the Genesis/MegaDrive too - but my memory is fuzzy whether it did appear for it? The pokey rendition of it's music seems pretty good for pokey... The best game music I thought from the Genesis/MegaDrive was music from Batman... Harvey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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