VinsCool Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 26 minutes ago, emkay said: It's 50Hz. And the video shows the AAuthor. Also, your tune sounds "in tune", but the point((floating of the tune... whatever)) of the original is missing. I didn't know NTSC ran at 50hz Yeah I am well aware about the "floating" in question. It was only partially done "correctly" during the introduction, I tried to modulate the original's filter, but there's still for improvements, especially in the "1 channel" reverb part later. It's all over the place and I already know why, just haven't fixed that yet since I pretty much just quickly cleaned up what I had done since the V22 file (the one in the .zip a few posts above) was already "outdated" compared to where I was with that one. Same for the lead, it was poorly done as a last minute change since that was around the time I finally understood how to have very consistent pulses, and using the table under the volume is a lot more precise for that purpose. Vibrato is also horrible since it was using a placeholder value from the preset, but that will use the frequency table below, as well. There's also a couple notes where I was reverting to a normal square to make up the note range for the loopy part from the intro. I have discovered a way to get deeper distorted notes using the PWM and certain frequencies in the other channel, so that could be interesting to try later. I have some original song ideas using that idea already, actually, but that's not quite ready to be published currently. For now what I wanted was the volume balance cooperating before everything started to clip, which seems mostly good to me, even if the Youtube video got a lot more compressed than it should have. The Deku Palace cover I did a few days ago basically had all the above properly handled, since it was done after I put Electric City on the side. Not a very difficult song to cover but there's quite a lot of details in the sound design to adapt, and I know it can be done. I won't be lying, I restarted this one for the 3rd time since I kept finding a better method to get sound working as I wanted, so I guess it's understandable why I have not finished it yet, haha. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, VinsCool said: I didn't know NTSC ran at 50hz Well, I changed things to run it on 50Hz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 VinsCool. Check your edit of EC and my changed version. Mine doesn't yell at all . I really didn't touch the notations themselves. It's also 10 frames less time for programming. The different sound is not done by rearranging notes. You don't get higher than 8 bit with it. It would be the best way to create the tune using 3 channels in the available square wave range. If the harmonics work well, THEN the needed channel should be using 2 channels for optimizing the resolution. Trying to do tunes with "filter" on, always changes the face of the waves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Why is it called a "filter" anyways? It seems to behave like ring modulation more than a "crude high pass filter". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, EnderDude said: Why is it called a "filter" anyways? It seems to behave like ring modulation more than a "crude high pass filter". That is the question of the century It could mean the physical behavior that two of those channels cutting the waves result in a "doubled" waveform switching. So the channels build a higher (double ) frequency on the 1st channel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, EnderDude said: Why is it called a "filter" anyways? It seems to behave like ring modulation more than a "crude high pass filter". I like to think of it as a very cheap FM effect, since all sort of timbres can be created with the 2 channels combined, especially when both have volume output enabled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 If you turn the 2nd channel on and off, you can also enhance the 8 bit resolution with one extra and direct programmable octave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 38 minutes ago, emkay said: That is the question of the century It could mean the physical behavior that two of those channels cutting the waves result in a "doubled" waveform switching. So the channels build a higher (double ) frequency on the 1st channel. Speaking of doubling the frequency, when both the channels' frequencies sync up for a brief moment, in some sap players such as asap, it lowers the note by an octave, and in others like rmt and altirra, that doesn't happen. Does real hardware sound more like asap or altirra when it comes to this filter behavior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, EnderDude said: Speaking of doubling the frequency, when both the channels' frequencies sync up for a brief moment, in some sap players such as asap, it lowers the note by an octave, and in others like rmt and altirra, that doesn't happen. Does real hardware sound more like asap or altirra when it comes to this filter behavior? Altirra. Its pokey emulation is (almost?) spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, EnderDude said: Speaking of doubling the frequency, when both the channels' frequencies sync up for a brief moment, in some sap players such as asap, it lowers the note by an octave, and in others like rmt and altirra, that doesn't happen. Does real hardware sound more like asap or altirra when it comes to this filter behavior? In this function, all emulation is correct. It's getting problematic that there is a "fixed" timing on the real machines. But emulations don't work like the real hardware. That's why a lot of combinations weren't possible in RMT. Can you give an example of "lowering" and "no lowering" ? Altirra seems to have the most propper emulation. Slight timing problems and the real volume mixing isn't still found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, emkay said: In this function, all emulation is correct. It's getting problematic that there is a "fixed" timing on the real machines. But emulations don't work like the real hardware. That's why a lot of combinations weren't possible in RMT. Can you give an example of "lowering" and "no lowering" ? Altirra seems to have the most propper emulation. Slight timing problems and the real volume mixing isn't still found. If you try to listen to my cover of Bionic Commmando in any of the revisions I've posted earlier, you can hear the synth dropping by an octave when the two channels sync for a brief moment (1:42 is a good example). The song channels were rendered with multidumper, which probably uses asap for pokey emulation. For examples of it not happening, I can point to any of your covers you've recorded in Altirra. Edited December 4, 2020 by EnderDude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 18 hours ago, EnderDude said: It would be nice to be able to use 16-bit accuracy on distortions other than the bass distortion. That's what RMT 1.27 patch 6 by AnalMux is for. Thread: https://atariage.com/forums/topic/175878-rmt-patch-6/ Link to RMT 1.27 patch 6 thanks to emkay: https://atariage.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=248525 I used it for my last Noisy Pillars version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClO2XifvKiA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 28 minutes ago, EnderDude said: If you try to listen to my cover of Bionic Commmando in any of the revisions I've posted earlier, you can hear the synth dropping by an octave when the two channels sync for a brief moment (1:42 is a good example). That's absolutely normal, as POKEY doesn't offer a solution to have always a correct start of the wave building. 28 minutes ago, EnderDude said: The song channels were rendered from multidumper, which probably uses asap for pokey emulation. For examples of it not happening, I can point to any of your covers you've recorded in Altirra. Because I manage to have always the correct start for the wave building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 Here a recording from winamp using the asap plugin. The most difference you hear in the volume mixing. ASAP is too low, ALTIRRA somewhat too high in mixing the overall volume together ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 17 hours ago, VinsCool said: 60hz, yep. It can be a lot better once I stop being so lazy and then start more projects before finishing the other ones And it's also in tune because I was the person who transcribed this one so far (no offence intended emkay!) Big drums, of course! That is what I like Still no new patterns, but I actually have cleaned it up now, so it should no longer be a mess to look at. So unless someone beats me to the punch and added more patterns, this is where this one will progress Great job! it's very catchy and nicely "balanced" unlike Emkay's edit which is rough but has some nice spacey sounds. Please add more patterns ? Agreed that 50hz would be better for tunes if you want them to be used for some project because it's easier to play a 50hz tune at 60hz than the opposite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Also, I finally got around fixing those two instruments. Third time's a charm! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, EnderDude said: Also, I finally got around fixing those two instruments. Third time's a charm! OK. I'm always pleasured, if people do experimental stuff. I give it 95% of 100% now For others those modulation distorted drum at the beginning still could distract people. Not sure how the instruments were set. For the drum, I'd try to use generator C on the 2nd channel for a short time, and let it shoot into the generator A on channel 1 . And I hope there will be a "real" POKEY version, too Edited December 5, 2020 by emkay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 11 hours ago, EnderDude said: Also, I finally got around fixing those two instruments. Third time's a charm! Perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 Say (or write) what you want. It seems to give the best results for "real music" , to have 64kHz, one PWM based channel, one arpeggio based channel, and a drum/fx channel that uses the orbits of the polycounter basses to simulate modulations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Proof Of Concept. Siddump conversion of one of my favorite SID tunes. It took six days with varying hours per day, and about 20-25 hours in total, including creating all the instruments. Perhaps I should start my own Pokey music thread, like fragmare, vinscool, emkay, etc...., instead of burying this at page 31 of Nothing Special Freeze.siddump.txt 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, ivop said: Proof Of Concept. Siddump conversion of one of my favorite SID tunes. It took six days with varying hours per day, and about 20-25 hours in total, including creating all the instruments. Perhaps I should start my own Pokey music thread, like fragmare, vinscool, emkay, etc...., instead of burying this at page 31 of Nothing Special Freeze.siddump.txt 485.33 kB · 1 download The tune sounds ok. OK. How is that siddump to import into RMT, except of typing all notes and patterns in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, emkay said: The tune sounds ok. OK. How is that siddump to import into RMT, except of typing all notes and patterns in? Sorry, there's not yet a way, other than to type in all the notes, and patterns, and song data manually. That's what I did, and recognize the different instruments and those that start with a hat. You have to know how to read the register dump. Some knowledge about the SID chip's working is necessary. 81 is noise with gate bit, 41 or 21 is note with gate bit, i.e. the start of a new note. And recognize 0370, 0380, 0470, 0490, 0580, and 0590 arpeggios at the drum channel. They are prepended with a hi-hat too. And the zero note of the arp (the 0xx0 arp) is not always necessarily the basis of the chord name, either major or minor. For exampe playing G-2 with the 0580 instrument is a Cm chord (G C D# G ). But you typed in a song with the help of a YouTube video, didn't you? This is the same, but more accurate. It's monkswork But IMHO, in the end, it's pretty satisfying when it all works out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Dedication guys, I admire your dedication (and yes this certainly extends to emkay as well). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 Day has ended. So here it was is done 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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